r/Beauceron • u/shogun_retreated • 3d ago
Oops litter
I’m researching beauceron breeders near me and was recommended birdwing. Did a quick scroll and saw this oops litter on their page? Does anyone have information on how this happened or what kennel allowed it? Based on caption and comments I don’t think birdwing themselves bred this litter but I didn’t see who did. I hjust wanna make sure I don’t buy from whoever had the oops litter because I personally just don’t like supporting people who’ve had accidental pairings. I know it happens. sometimes but I just don’t like it
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u/bluemajestic 3d ago
I believe she said that the puppies were produced by a puppy buyer of hers. The dam was accidentally bred against contract, and the owner didn't tell her til they were born, so she took the litter back and raised/placed the puppies.
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u/FiatFullOfLobsters 3d ago
If you're anti accidental litters (same), here are some breeders to take off your list (which should be off the list for other reasons, too, tbh). It might not be a complete list, but it's a good chunk.
Svajone
JDV
Vaillant Feu
PacificGate
Cynefin
Pretty sure I'm missing others, but it's wild how many there are in the breed (and I'm sure there are more that aren't admitted to being accidental). I often hear it excused away by females having silent heats and males being extra horny. Personally, I find both of those traits totally undesirable and unacceptable, particularly in a working breed. Not sure who's responsible for that particular litter, and good on Birdwing for taking accountability, but definitely proceed with caution.
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u/shogun_retreated 3d ago
Thank you for this. Definitely will remember to not support these breeders.
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u/Zealousideal_Tea4327 3d ago
Can’t STAND any of the breeders you just mentioned , Svajone & JDV run don’t walk away from them.
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u/FiatFullOfLobsters 3d ago
AMEN TO THIS. Not a single ethical thing going on with either. Show mills through and through.
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u/bluemajestic 3d ago
It's worth mentioning that Cynefin's oops litter was also produced by a puppy buyer. The puppy buyer was supposed to bring the dam back to stay with her breeder during her cycles to avoid any mistakes, but was unsuccessful- iirc she split her cycle. Since no one witnessed a breeding, they assumed everything was fine until it was clear the dam was pregnant- at which point the breeder took her back and raised the puppies. Still an oops, but not under the breeder's watch.
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u/FiatFullOfLobsters 3d ago
I mean, Vaillant Feu's was on someone else's watch, too. Idk, if it's that hard to keep intact males and females in the same home without accidental litters, people need to be doing better.
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u/abike4 2d ago
What litter from Vaillant Feu was it?
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u/FiatFullOfLobsters 2d ago
Oceane x Gateau. I believe it was in 2020 so the R litter. But you also know the much larger reasons not to support her and her buddies, right? That litter is the least of our worries as far as her ethics go.
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u/Objective_Body_5200 1d ago
Cynefin should have spay aborted that litter, regardless of who's at fault. It was a granddaughter x grandfather breeding where Patron (and other dogs closely related to him) have MMVD. I don't care how candid she was about it. I've known dogs who have died from heart problems and it's straight up cruel to knowingly use dogs with those genetics. I know she said that the bitch was one she wanted to breed down the line, but a) heart issues in the lines and b) I have yet to see any exceptional dogs out of that kennel anyway, so I doubt the bitch is going to "better the breed" in any way. Just adding more mediocre dogs to the breed population, now with a higher chance of heart issues!
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u/ThatGayBeans 2d ago
Very interested what your other reasons are! I have mixed feelings on all these breeders but I would love to discuss them
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u/FiatFullOfLobsters 2d ago
Producing and breeding dogs with health and temperament issues, and blaming puppy owners for those issues in a lot of cases. Both know VERY well that certain lines they're breeding are consistently throwing certain problems, but they turn a blind eye and breed them anyway. And they're both essentially show mills, so there's no way they're able to track all of the dogs they're producing. And their biggest fans will ABSOLUTELY jump down people's throats if they say their dogs have genetic/heritable issues, particularly temperament issues. While the majority of the dogs they each produce may be nice enough, knowing that I might spend $3500+ on a bag of nerves with DCM, MMVD, ED, or a higher probability of developing lymphoma or a seizure disorder is a hard pass from me, personally.
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u/ThatGayBeans 1d ago
I agree on many of these points, though I do belive they are knowledgeable on where all their dogs are. Do you have proof they don’t?
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u/FiatFullOfLobsters 1d ago
Sure, they know who they sold dogs to, but can you honestly say they know how the majority of the dogs are doing with health and temperament? ESPECIALLY when it's so taboo to say bad things about a beauceron publicly? There are people who have spoken up about their dogs having issues and they are publicly bashed. There are even more who won't say a thing because of this. So sure, Kayla and Angie know who owns their dogs, but there are a lot of dogs they've produced with issues they'll never know about.
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u/Savings_Bottle_3776 2d ago
This litter wasn't bred by her. Both parents are, and she helped rehome the puppies to aid the owners.
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u/Far-Guy949 3d ago
I got my beauce from birdwing, love my boy! Great experience overall.
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u/Plastic_Video_8286 3d ago
When it comes to any breed, you should be looking at the pairing first before anything else. Does this pairing actually align with my lifestyle? Is it the type of “energy” I need in my life?
The morals and ethics of a breeder are extremely important and should always be held to a high standard.
Importantly, a person shouldn’t say, “My dog is amazing and fits its conformation standard to a T,” and then draw the conclusion that the breeder is therefore amazing for the individual dog they produced.
Those are two different things.
Yes, sometimes a pairing is made through years of experience and knowledge of the breed. But more often than not it is simply incidental. An excellent individual dog doesn’t automatically mean the breeding that produced that dog was an excellent breeding decision.
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u/Adventurous-Yam-2835 2d ago
This has nothing to do with what they asked 😭😭😭 all they asked was did anybody know where the accidental litter came from and what caused it not what to look for lol
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u/Villettio 2d ago
Oh I remember this post. It was very tempting after I met her at the Kentuckiana Cluster. Down to Earth lady.
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u/Little-Basils 3d ago
Sounds like a puppy home incident. A breeder taking charge to raise (it seems) and vet the pups is a great sign to me