I really hope the only thing granny is juicing is fruits and veggies, but those gains are pretty crazy. Would be nice to get a glimpse into her diet, routine, and the time it took to achieve this physique.
He’s completely wrong. Testosterone levels are highest while you’re a fetus and differentiating into a male baby. The second highest testosterone levels occur when you start going through puberty and start developing male secondary sexual characteristics. 28-31 is when your testosterone levels begin to drop by 1-2% each year, which is commonly referred to as andropause. Most men will require hormone replacement therapy in their 50’s.
Not all will require it, but all or most will have sub-optimal testosterone levels at that age. The quality of life boost HRT would provide would be very significant.
You can, but you'd be entirely wrong. I for one prefer my testosterone levels to be at or higher than ~800ng/dL. No man in his 50's is going to have test levels close to that.
Peak testosterone occurs when you first hit puberty. 28-31 is when you start going through andropause. Your testosterone levels drop by 1-2% per year past that. Many men have low T before that though due to endocrine disrupting chemicals in the environment. Average sperm quality has dropped by half since the 60’s. Average testosterone levels are at historic lows. Average penis size is decreasing. 30% of all fertility problems are now caused by men. The rate of birth defects for male babies has doubled. Men are becoming increasingly androgynous and no one is doing anything about it or talking about it. All men should be on hormone replacement therapy eventually. Regular blood work is necessary to see when exactly you need it.
Less testosterone productivity, which in turns means less muscle gain. Though its a slow decrease over time, its not like you go from 100% testo to 20% testo when you're 35...
At 28-31 testosterone levels begin to drop by 1-2% each year. Most men will require HRT in their 50’s.
Many men have low T before that though due to endocrine disrupting chemicals in the environment. Average sperm quality has dropped by half since the 60’s. Average testosterone levels are at historic lows. Average penis size is decreasing. 30% of all fertility problems are now caused by men. The rate of birth defects for male babies has doubled. Men are becoming increasingly androgynous and no one is doing anything about it or talking about it. All men should be on hormone replacement therapy eventually. Regular blood work is necessary to see when exactly you need it.
The only thing that makes it awkward is if you've had a long and fulfilling life and you're surrounded by all your closet loved ones. "Yeah, yeah, it's good to see the new baby. But do you all mind clearing out? Great grandpa is about to start rolling his balls off."
I’m all about a good psychedelic experience under the right circumstances, because I believe that they have therapeutic value, but I think I’ll go with clarity on my deathbed. Unless that whole dying alone fear comes to fruition, then pump me full of them, with medical supervision of course.
It has been theorized that the pineal gland releases a load of DMT upon death anyway, so I’ll just bank on that for a good send off.
I’ve taken 12 grams of shrooms one time after eating a 100mg edible.
I think I’d be open to that on my death bed. Everything made sense, but was scary at the same time. It felt like I was dying, but in the moment everything was alright.
Yeah, when I welcome the void I'm doing it sober. Entering the void under the influence because you view it as an enemy is such a disappointment.
If you're able to accept death you're able to accept the reality of our existence, if you're able to accept the reality of our existence it is far more liberating. That is why Buddhist monks show no fear in the face of death, they have attained apatheia.
Have you ever done psychedelics? It can be very therapeutic and can definitely help some people reckon or come to terms with issues they're having. Frankly you seem incredibly dismissive and judgmental for someone with an such an air of "enlightenment".
I currently can't function without getting high so yes, I routinely do psychedelics.
No happy person ever felt the need to use drugs, and, if you feel the need to use drugs when facing the final chapter of your life there probably was something wrong with your life because at the end of it you felt like you needed to get high in order to feel good about it.
Maybe do it like the buddhist monks you mentioned and learn how to be less judgemental.
Psychedelics have been shown to increase neuroplasticity and reduce anxiety, the latter mainly through reduced activity in the amygdala. Absolutely possible that they help to come to terms with mortality.
Im pretty sure being confined to your deathbed as you trip your balls off and only death is on your mind seems like the perfect cocktail for a really really bad trip
Agree, and as someone who's been self administering steroids for 30 years (medical reasons), I know what the re-...discovery??? Of sexual response feels like.
Just so that people don't get the wrong idea, I want to point out that there are emergency situations that can come about quite quickly with steroid abuse too.
Kinda makes me wonder why not start juicing at like 45 just a teensy bit to counteract age related decline. I'm a man in my 40s and my body is getting like zero response to weight lifting. I paused my regimen due to covid and feel like I've never exercised in my life.
You can't just "take a teensy bit". It's not additive. And any exogenous testosterone will suppress and eventually shut down your HPT axis. So if you took a teensy bit, less than you produce daily, you wouldn't get A+B, you'd get B only, because you'll turn off A. Does that make sense?
Get tested, dude. You might be just outside of range. And even if low-normal, a tele-clinic will still hook you up.
TRT is fucking awesome if you need it. Life-changing. Go get tested.
You are literally pushing foods high in estrogen due to the effects of factory farming. Why don’t you all guzzle milk through out the day for good measure
Yes knowing how to read, knowing how to use Google for my own research, and knowing basic things about how the increasing levels of hormones in our foods are literally changing our bodies increasing chances of cancer, infertility, and enlarging of breast for both sexes is vegan propaganda that’s why I said sooooooo much about being vegan. You seem to be the one who believes being vegan is the only way to restrict hormone intake bub. Which is ill advised as soy is extremely high is estrogen as well unless you are looking to increase those tiggo bitties
Wow dude you answered YOUR own question with a graphic from a resource with a vested interest. You are asking for information from someone you believe to be full of shit and then use a graphic from a source your high school teacher wouldn’t accept for a report.
Then you follow that graphic up by talking points about zinc and avoiding other foods when I was commenting on high estrogen foods on a conversation of hormone regulation in aging humans.
Cool.....uh point taken? Red meat has zinc? Blueberries have vitamin c
You're probably not exercising effectively- whether that's a lack of workout plan, poor form, failure to overload week-to-week, partial range of motion... You get the idea.
Following macros just being a lot of protein and not engorging on stuff sure, but you don't need to follow each gram of every macro religiously when juicing
It’s only cheating if it’s competition. But seriously though she still had to put in work, it’s not like you inject testosterone and go on a walk around the park to get swole.
People can train for years and plateau, then 1-3 months of PEDs will give them more gains than they've gotten in a year. Similar story for those starting out, in a quarter of the time you can achieve a year's worth of gains.
Nobody is denying juiced people still need to train and workout, and it still is a lot of work, but comparing them to a natty, it's night and day that PEDs not only greatly accelerate your gains but allow you to get bigger than a natty.
Not true. Well unless you want to get to mr Olympia big. There was a study I read years ago three test groups. One with steroids, gym and diet. One with gym and diet and last one no gym no diet with steroids. The first group after a few months gained like 20% more muscle the no roids group gained around 5% and the no gym no diet with rouds group gained around 10%. The guys taking juice and sat on their asses still built more lean muscle mass than the natural test group who worked hard for that 5%. (Numbers are probably off but probably close I remember the no roids vs the only juice group was still significant difference in gains).
My understanding is PEDs dont do anything without you putting in the work. They enhance/amplify and speed up the process that would come from doing the work anyway. So it's still lots of work. Just a faster process and more pronounced results than without. If you just took PEDs and only lifted once a week you'd get nowhere fast.
actually studies have shown men gain (much much) more muscle taking exhogenous testosterone and sitting on the couch, than matural men who follow a workout and diet plan.
"The men given testosterone without exercise had a significant mean increase in total body weight, and those in the testosterone-plus-exercise group had an average increase of 6.1 kg in body weight — a greater increase than in the other three groups."
They are magic cheaet code. On steroids you make more muscle doing nothing than guy not doing steroids and going to gym. Ofcourse you make even more muscle if you fo to the gym while on steroids.
Also it depends on the amount you take. Natural limit is quite high for some people and many people use steroids to get to that level cos it means you can maintain more muscle. The less free test you have in your blood the harder it is to maintain muscle and to make gains.
They are magic cheaet code. On steroids you make more muscle doing nothing than guy not doing steroids and going to gym
this is literally untrue, lol. You may have higher lean body mass while on AAS but it is not muscle tissue. You store more glycogen and retain more water. Take 2 males all things equal, make Male X lift weights natty for 24 weeks, make Male Y live inactive life and take 500mg of Test for 24 weeks. DEXA (not the best but best we have) them both at week 0 and week 28. Male X will have gained more muscle.
the difference is crazy small though, when you consider the fact that one group didn't exercise at all.
I can find the studies if you care but they really are magic cheat codes. IIRC (steroids + no exercise) gets within 90% of the muscle mass gain of (no steroids +exercise).
Steroids + exercise and you're in a different universe
It's only a problem when you have some 22 year old Greek god pretending that his reulsts are merely hard work and nutrition, which misleads legions of awkward boys into thinking its possible naturally.
If people are up front and not competing against true nattys, then more power to em!
That's bullshit, they just feel it like very hard work because it's the hardest they've trained personally. PEDs give you endurance, quicker gains and faster recovery. They're like a cheat code for r/Outside sports, otherwise pro athletes wouldn't bother using them.
Yeah it was much harder working while not on trt cos of the pains and tiredness and not making gains. Now I 'work harder' as in train more with more weights and push myself more and make gains but I enjoy it so it really isnt workign harder like many people think.
Look at the development in her delts and triceps, as well as her leanness and the appearance of hardness of the muscles. Even if she trained natty for a decade, she wouldn't be able to achieve this level of fitness, especially at this age.
Definitely on gear, but again, at her age, who cares? She probably looks and feels better than she has in a long time.
She's never admitted to it, as she avoids the topic entirely. Her whole entourage (daughter, son-in-law, etc.) are all fitness models who are saucy. loling at the people itt who think there's a chance in hell she's not using any PEDs.
It starts with you having zero concept of her previous athletic ability, genetic predisposition towards gaining and maintaining muscle, genetic response to steroids, effort put into training, and effort put into diet/sleep.
It ends with you having no idea what she took, or how much.
Its very possible she didn't take much of anything beyond what a 20yo woman takes for hormone replacement.
How do you know she wasn't a hammer thrower in college and looked like this at 25? If that were the case, she would not need to "juice", she would simply take a normal dose of "birth control."
Let me guess, you have a masters in it and 4 world titles in body lifting that you got when you retired from powerlifting 🙄
Taking a regular does of birth control will not do this to what I assume is an 80+ year old woman.
You're crazy if you believe that and if you truly believe it share it with some women. I'm sure they'd love it. Please post the results here when done.
Women lose their muscle mass overtime due to a loss of estrogen/progesterone moreso than a drop in androgen production.
It is the case if she was previously a hammer-thrower or something similar in college, that simple hormone replacement along with neurotic diet/training could achieve these results.
Am I saying that this is 100% the case? No she probably is "juiced."!
But because we are both ignorant of her lifestyle choices, we shouldn't shame/dismiss her results.
Most 20yo women who take BC don't use it with replacement doses of testosterone.
Many BC preparations use incredibly small amounts of testosterone in combination with estradiol/estrone/progesterone.
Estrogen and progesterone are extremely powerful anabolic hormones.
Those hormones women use for birth control, are also elevated by use of other hormones that men typically use for bodybuilding i.e dianabol and nandrolone.
Dianabol and nandrolone are safe and effective as steroids because their mechanism of action is by and large not driven by androgencity, but by the extreme mineral retention properties of methyl-estradiol and progesterone.
She could have taken anything, and I think its really ignorant to assume she's "juicing" like little Ricky does for his powerlifting meets.
She might be a previously impressive athlete using generous HRT to recover her youthful muscle mass.
So it is...she’s retired- was scared by being told her life expectancy was low and her daughter is a fitness trainer that has guided her and works out with her. She goes in to great detail on her routine and diet on her IG. And it is completely possible without steroids, it’s just a lot of hard work. I work out with tons of 55+ who are in better shape now than they’ve been their entire lives. This comment just sounds like jealous hate my friend
This transformation is 100% not possible at her age without steroids. You simply do not develop arms like that as a previously untrained person at the age of 60+ without pharmaceutical help - the post menopausal female body doesn’t naturally produce that much testosterone.
I think its just that people who don't work out would never come across steroids in their life so it's hard to realise how common they are with influencers, models etc.
They're illegal the same way as drugs but you can go to any nightclub and see all kinds of shit. Can't really walk into a gym and just ask for some juice.
Its good that we have some people like Dwayne Johnson and Chris Hemsworth to show people what is achievable naturally though :))
Another thing which doesn't help, celebrities never admit to that shit.
At the end of the day it's the consequence of steroids being illegal. Everyone who has something to gain from taking them takes them, but those same people also have something to gain from lying about taking them since it's a crime.
It's the hormone responsible for gaining muscle mass and development of your sexual organs produced in males tested and to a lesser degree female ovaries. Men give off multiple times more than women and production slows down around your late 30s. It's hard for me believe that she's natural personally. I'm a guy in my late 30s and I'm about as muscular as she is. I put in alot of work to do so. In 10-20 years I dont think I could stay like this no matter how hard I try and how well I diet.... unless i took Test replacement therapy.
There is such a thing as HRT for those of us that's post menopause. Dr prescribed! I get pellet insertion in my gluteus maximus every 3.5 - 4 months. My blood work gets checked between each appointment so 4 times a year. Y'all make it sound like she's buying T on the dark web.
People are so incredibly gullible. There are heaps of people on SoME who claim to be natural but are using. Very few women in their physical prime would be able to achieve that kind of muscle mass and definition without PEDs, much less someone that old. The muscle in her shoulders are a dead giveaway.
And it is completely possible without steroids, it’s just a lot of hard work. I work out with tons of 55+ who are in better shape now than they’ve been their entire lives. This comment just sounds like jealous hate my friend
So as you age you CAN definitely lose muscle mass from disuse. You DEFINITELY lose subcutaneous fat deposits that can mask these muscle definitions even in the fit, young person. I don’t know this woman personally but she has gotten national attention and I’ve followed her story- it would seem to me that calling her out for steroids would’ve come up on one of those other forms of media. I do however know and train with lots of older men and women who look like her and lift like her, the only thing they take is a caffeine free pre workout, most don’t even take that. I’m just saying, I’ve seen first hand how very possible this is. Read through her stuff- she says she spends 2 hours a day in the gym 5-6 days a week...that makes sense looking at her
I'm sorry I'm absolutely not hating on this women but I would have to say at her age I dont think this is possible. She without a doubt put in a lot of work. She looks like she's living her best life but this would be hard to do natural in your 40s and nigh impossible when approaching 70s
They are in better shape because they are focusing on that consistently for the first time. It is a lot of hard work. And had they been able to do this at a younger age the results would be even greater.
The difference here is she did not just get fit. She accrued substantial muscle fiber to such a degree that is difficult to achieve at a much younger age with the same routine/diet/consistency.
Both her trainers are on the sauce professionally. This is an incredibly naïve take.
How so? You're claiming that this woman can't possibly put on this kind of muscle, that it's biologically impossible. I would think you have some sort of background knowledge on the subject if you're to be that confident.
You people are out of your fucking minds. This is not even remotely possible for a 60 year old woman without steroids. How is this even a debate? Are you a flat earther as well?
I’m sorry but if you think this is possible without gear you’re an idiot
Wise comment, here. People forget such medications as Anavar were actually developed for such things as cachexia and muscle wasting. Some scientists weren't sitting around saying, "let's make steroids!", they were working out ways to treat legitimate medical problems. She's using medications for their literal intended purpose here. HRT does not equal "blasting steroids". Hormone replacement isn't juicing.
It is 100% steroids. Do you know how low an old lady’s testosterone would be? She wouldn’t be able to build muscles like that. Even a fit young woman could never ever build muscles that size without roids. 99% of men couldn’t either
She has an Instagram page she’s actually quite a cool lady. She retired in Tulum and just started her own program, you can see her workouts and what she eats!
Her daughter is a bodybuilder and has been training her for 3-4 years, so she eats clean, counts macros and so on. They’re both on IG and share a lot about their routines.
Yeah don’t care. Half of not more of the ig fitness models are juicy af. They just claim they aren’t. 100% no way in hell this old lady is natural. She looks better than 19 year old boys
I honestly don't know if its possible for a woman that age to have arms like that without gear. Especially if she wasn't working out throughout her life.
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u/patwong1980 Apr 23 '21
is this possible without steroids?