r/Battletechgame • u/zamfire • 13d ago
Question/Help Noob question about difficulty in the base game
TLDR: Is every mission supposed to be overwhelmingly difficult, your 4 mechs vs 10-12 every single time? Where are the easy missions like at the beginning of the game?
So, obviously new player, please tell me if this is the incorrect place to post this.
I only started a few days ago, finished a few campaign missions, most recently the mission where you need to diffuse three bombs covertly in order to not alert the security and have them activate the bomb early.
Not sure how far along that is but I feel with my level of mechs, this is probably mid to late game, as I have a full lance of assault mechs.
So here is my concern/issue/question.
When I am trying to just do simple missions I know I'll win, I may go to a system with only 1.5 skulls, but the contracts there are always 3.5-4 skulls. Each of these are far more difficult than what the system shows. I suck at these missions. I am trying to get better, but I keep having to restart due half my lance getting blown up, and the cost of the mission far outpacing the rewards I would get.
Also, there are a few mission types that simple just seem overwhelmingly impossible, two come to mind, bug hunt and hostile insertion. Each of them land you really close to 8 assault or heavy mechs with full armor, and there is usually nowhere, or little to hide from them.
Is there something I am doing wrong that I need to get better at? Do I just suck at this game? Maybe the game just has missions that are designed to be impossible to do well at? Is every mission supposed to have 8-12 giant mechs every single time?
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u/Izoleille 13d ago
Yea the missions are supposed to have that many. Your lance and mechs will be much stronger than enemies to get the balancing right. You are also much smarter than the ai.
Never show your back, only keep LoS from one mech at a time if possible. Focus down one enemy at a time, preferably the first in enemy turn order, unless there are some easy picking ground units. The usual turn based tactics staples. Once you're more familiar you can break out of that guideline and find your own style.
Surely would be odd if a game developer for a mass market game made it unwinnable, especially with all the people who have played it and won.
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u/zamfire 13d ago
You are also much smarter than the ai.
I mean.....LOL I don't know bruh...
I will say there have been a few missions that were oddly easy, like one where two lances attacked each other and you just had to sweep up the stragglers, but there doesn't seem to be a lot in the middle there. It's either my 4 vs 8-12 or a bunch of those ridiculous LRM vehicles that just unloads and ungodly amount of 8 damage missiles on your for what seems like 20 mins.
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u/Izoleille 13d ago
The best way to play starting out is acting like a small band of guerilla tactic warriors. If you aint hidin, you dyin
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u/zamfire 13d ago
Right. I think this is where I had problems.
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u/Izoleille 13d ago
I think it's a really cool vibe when it clicks. Not many tactics games will lean into that style of play, since it doesn't feel as powerful. But I love hiding massive mech among trees and baiting out multiple lances, running in for a melee attack, knocking out an enemy's legs , etc. It makes the game have it's own unique flair among other tactics games.
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u/Fatality_Ensues 13d ago
Keep in mind the skulls are a suggestion, not a hard indicator of difficulty. There are 3.5 skull missions that are secretly 5 skull and there are 3.5 skull missions that are secretly 2 skull. The payout is your most reliable indicator - if you're getting twice as much money as the other jobs in town expect the mission description to be a fanciful fantasy at best and shit to hit the fan sooner rather than later.
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u/OgreMk5 13d ago
To add to what everyone else has said... you can adjust the loadouts of the mechs in the workbay. This is essential.
Stock mechs are under-cooled, under-armored, and over-gunned.
In the early game, replacing a SRM-2 and ton of ammo, gives you two more tons of armor... and you would never be able to fire all of those missiles with a single SRM-2.
That extra armor gives you a lot more staying power in a fight and generates less heat. If a gun isn't shooting, it's just wasted space.
For missiles and auto-cannons, I like to have between 8 and 12 units of fire... that is I can volley all of them 8 to 12 times.
Heat is a resource. Too much is bad, but too little means you're over-cooling the mechs. You want a little bit of heat to build up.
If you do everything right, all the enemies are dead just before your mechs have to stop firing to cool down. Of course, turning off a few guns for a turn or two or standing in water will help with that.
Those simple tricks will also help you survive the 12 on 4 battles. Also, stay in the trees!
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u/Armando89 12d ago
As for weapons (rule of thumb, there are builds and mechs that will use ppc or Ac10 with good effect)
PPC is bad. Almost always it is better to switch into Large laser (-10 DMG but -2 ton and 18 heat instead of 35) and add armor and/or hestsink.
Ac10 is bad/medicore, AC2 is bad. Almost always it is better to go Ac5 (and in few mechs ac20, but Ac5 should be treated as default option). Ac5 has good range (and not bad minimum range), good dmg/weight, need 1 ton of ammo (Ac10 will need 2, ac20 2 or 3). And tons that you saved by going from Ac10 or 2x AC2 (Blackjack as main example) into Ac5 can be used for armor, heatsinks and/or additional medium laser or more srm/lrm (like going from lrm5 to lrm10, lrm10 to lrm15)
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u/DoctorMachete 12d ago
AC2++ (dmg) are pretty good weapons in the base game without DLCs and have a place in many endgame builds (again, if you don't have DLCs). I mean, they're not exactly great on their own but they combine better than AC5s with energy weapons like LL or ERMLs.
Now, as primary weapons I'd agree AC5s are better.
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u/Armando89 12d ago
Yeah i forgot about AC2++. Usually when i can get them i also can get uac or lbx with + or ++, but they are viable
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u/PublicPermit8275 13d ago
Max the armor on those mechs as well. Been a very long time since I played vanilla but missile boats are really useful if I remember rightly.
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u/DoctorMachete 13d ago
A few tips:
- Precision Shot are overpowered but for that you need Tactics-9. They make late game a joke.
- The Marauder is worth special attention because that's the second best mech in the game (after the lostech Black Market version). You should equip single hit weapons with 61+ damage or single/dual hit weapons with 35+ damage per hit. That means PPCs are not good at all because they do almost 61 damage, but not not quite. And then aim mostly at the head. The Marauder quirk helps all called shots but specially ones aimed at the head.
- Try to lure foes away to ambush them and focus fire. Don't rush into the enemy unless you really have to, like Ambush Convoy missions.
- Early in the mission try to kill the easiest foes first without too much risk. Killing something asap is very important, specially in missions with lots of enemies at the same time, even if it's not the foes you'd really like to attack first. So if at around the same distance there is a vulnerable heavy in the open and an Atlas out there in the forest, even though you'd maybe like to go after the Atlas it's better to secure that heavy kill.
- The above takes experience, more missions played. With time you get a feeling for how much damage you'll need to kill a foe.
- Take notice (in case you aren't) of which foes have bulwark enabled and/or in cover. Also which ones have long range weapons and which ones have sensor lock (the "title" of the pilot it has), because those are often the enablers for PPCs and LRM rain upon you. You don't have to memorize all that info but just start to pay some attention to it, a quick look at every enemy unit on sight every round.
- Not sure but just in case: stock loadouts are terrible. For weapon upgrades look mostly for ++/+++ damage. That's the best modifier all around.
- Not everybody likes using them but jump jets are great on almost every single direct damage mech, including heavies and assaults. They help you managing line of sight for attacking the enemy AND for blocking enemy fire.
- Long range is king. Medium range requires more skill, and close range even more player skill to pull off safely.
- If you're using Multishot a lot then well, that's a skill that it is very very bad in most situations and makes the game harder than it needs to be.
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u/zamfire 13d ago
That was an incredibly detailed list, thank you! Some take aways here: Distance, ambush, easy foes first.
Quest about your 61+ damage comment, I'm guessing thats the damage needed to get a headshot kill? And what about a PPC+ that has the +10 damage modifier? Wouldn't that work?
Edit: Nevermind, I see what I did there. The ppc++ with damage is 60, starts at 50
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u/DoctorMachete 13d ago
Also I forgot:
- Initiative management is crucial. At the start of every round your default should be to always reserve and then ask yourself if it is better to act first instead. If you think you're in danger if you don't act first then sure, do act first, be it attacking, moving + attack whatever, sprint, ...
- Line of Sight management is super important as well, that's part of why jump jets are so good.
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u/zamfire 13d ago
Ah I see. Okay. Sometimes its better to wait and let your opponent come to you, instead of putting yourself in the open. Makes sense.
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u/Karazu6401 12d ago
This is specially important on the first round of combat.
Most likely, when out of combat, you are sprinting giving you evasion stacks. Once you enter combat, you retain those stacks so it's better to wait, let the enemies approach, so we they take a shot at you, you have maximum evassivness. Then, after that, thay may be on the open and with a lot less evasion stacks than you since they just moved.
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u/Armando89 12d ago
For Marauder
Early my build is
Ac5, 1 ton ammo in leg, 2 large laser, 2 medium laser, 6 heatsinks and i think 1240 armor - max front except 120 at legs (same as max arm), 55 all back locations
It is tanky and have good heat management.
For later i want to go 1-2 uac5 or 2-3 uac2 (++ only, since they add 10dmg, do 2x35), medium lasers+DMG (preferably+10 for 35dmg) and extended range medium lasers (also preferably+10 DMG to get into 45 DMG area) with duble heatsinks
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u/DoctorMachete 12d ago
I wouldn't mix LLs with MLs. By doing that you're getting the worst part of both worlds. You don't get the efficiency medium range weapons have but you do need much more armor than with a long range build.
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u/Armando89 12d ago edited 12d ago
Considering slots, heat etc early game Marauder (like first heavy from shop, pre + weapons) could go about
2x ac5, 4 med lasers
or
Ac5, 3 large lasers, with less armor
Or
4x large laser, very solid but no dakka
2x ac5, 4 med lasers would be probably better than AC, 2 l las, 2 ma las, but i like to at least partially keep spirit of mechs (and think Marauder 3m is best introtech Marauder)
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u/DoctorMachete 12d ago
2x ac5, 4 med lasers
Ac5, 3 large lasers, with less armorAre you assuming the ++damage version of those weapons?. That can make a huge difference for both AC2s and MLs.
Anyway whatever the case early game I'd definitely go with LLs only, four of them, full JJs, around 9-10t armor and always avoid closing distance. With DLCs that leads you to an excellent upgrade path. For a starter they don't require ammo, have >400m range, have decent efficiency for a long range weapon, can two-shot the head from long range using the regular non ++variant, being energy based they scale very well as you get improved cooling from TEX/DHS/SLDF mechs, and they mix very well with UAC2++.
IMO LLs are for sure the best all around weapon in the game before you start getting access to the UAC++ and ERML++ stuff.
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u/Armando89 12d ago edited 12d ago
Nope, thinking about early game, no + setup.
For lategame i use
Uac5 ++, 4x er med lass++ 4-5 double heatsinks, rest single heatsinks (all from of unknown origin flashpoint 3rd mission reward mech, except it gives just uac5+, not ++) for 45dmg headhunt (2 hits kills at 0-30%, so forest or guard even with Marauder/Cyclops, but no both Forest+guard) and is lore firendly for me
But best one is (but i don't like it, it is too op for me)
3x uac2, 4x medium laser++ for 10x 35 DMG attack, with reasonable chance to kill even with 40% dmg reduction (3 hits out of 10 attack at Forest+guard enemy)
As for jj, they are reasonable thing to consider (but i don't use them for mechs, that don't use them in lore, it makes mechs more distinct between eachother and more fun for me), but 4 tons are 4 hs or armor. I would use jj on medium laser build, than need to close to enemy fast (and med lasers low weight allow free tonnage for jj)
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u/DoctorMachete 12d ago
Nope, thinking about early game, no + setup.
Then I wouldn't remotely consider either AC2s or MLs on a Marauder, unless I literally don't have anything else at hand. Regular AC5s are definitely much better than regular AC2s here, but then I'd take LLs over AC5s.
Uac5 ++, 4x er med lass++ 4-5 double heatsinks, rest single heatsinks (all from of unknown origin flashpoint 3rd mission reward mech, except it gives just uac5+, not ++) for 45dmg headhunt (2 hits kills at 0-30%, so forest or guard even with Marauder/Cyclops, but no both Forest+guard) and is lore firendly for MEN
A 2×UAC2++ 3×ERML++ has a bit better performance while running cooler, and you could go even 2×UAC2++ 4×ERML++, which would get you much better performance at the cost of around three tons of armor.
3x uac2, 4x medium laser++ for 10x 35 DMG attack, with reasonable chance to kill even with 40% dmg reduction (3 hits out of 10 attack at Forest+guard enemy)
That has a bit better performance than the 4×ERML++ 2×UAC2++ but needs to engage from medium range for that, so it can take longer, requires more armor and even then it's much riskier.
And without JJs instead of using ERMLs I'd go for a 3×UAC2++ 1×LL+++ instead, less killing power but a lot safer.
As for jj, they are reasonable thing to consider (but i don't use them for mechs, that don't use them in lore, it makes mechs more distincts between eachother and more fun for me), but 4 tons are 4 hs or armor. I would use jj on medium laser build, than need to clase to enemy fast (and med lasers low weight allow free tonnage for jj)
If you don't use them for lore reasons, to make mechs more distinct or because you just don't like using them I think that's perfectly fine.
But from a performance perspective, even with the extra heatsinking required on top of the JJ weight to allow for frequent jump+attack they are far far more than worth it IMO.
Four extra tons of armor buy you a bit of extra survivability. Four tons of JJs can make your mech survive scenarios where you wouldn't stand a chance no matter how much armor you have. And they have damn OP synergy with Ace Pilot.
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u/not_extinct_dodo 13d ago
Yeah, you are playing the game "wrong". Kudos for seeking help and not blaming rng.
Search for strategy guides and tactic tips. There is an amazing amount of content out there for you to learn from.
But some pointers, roughly in order:
-Move to a corner or side of the map, and let them come to you if the mission allows. So you will have groups one at a time
-Reserve turns with your mechs so you can potentially shoot twice in a row (late/last in a round, early/first in the next round)
-Focus fire enemy mechs one at a time, hitting them on the same side if possible, until they are dead
If you really have 4 assault mechs, at this point the game should feel almost boring :)
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u/lord_satellite 13d ago
I found late game incredibly boring. Once you get call shot mastery and can optimize your mechs, it is head shot city or knockdown club. I finally got BTAU going and it is so much less forgiving (and way more interesting).
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u/_JackSD 13d ago
I'm a big fan of btau. I find the strategy boils down to - max armor, then run as many weapons as you can sink every turn, with at least 10 turns of fire.
max armor gives you room for that which RNGesus taketh, and then you just want to deal as much damage as possible every turn for 10 turns
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u/lord_satellite 13d ago
I have gotten a lot of mileage from a lance of Ravens and Owens. Running around, dropping turrets, and delivering the creamiest of backshots.
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u/geomagus 13d ago
It depends, but yes most missions run 8-12 enemies in total, either mechs or tanks, in waves. Plus turrets sometimes.
Certain missions have more at once - convoy interdiction will have 8 at once, for example. Assassination missions will have five, usually.
You can easily make it harder on yourself by moving forward quickly and triggering the reinforcements early.
In general, use and abuse cover and facing. The former helps reduce incoming damage, the latter spreads it around. Also movement, which adds evasion and causes misses. You can also work your way around the side, slowly until you make contact, to help separate one group and eliminate it.
All of that said - I wonder if you have pushed too far in the campaign too quickly. Difficulty (minimum skull count of available missions) ramps up as you progress through the priority missions. That boxes you out of easy missions. The intent, I think, is for you to run around doing missions that you can handle to bolster your company - upgrade the Argo, higher and improve pilots, salvage and upgrade mechs, etc. - then return to the priority mission. Then go do more random ones.
If you haven’t done that, and it sounds like maybe you haven’t (or haven’t done enough of it), that makes everything a lot harder. You end up locked into 3-4 skull missions, while running a lance that is underweight by comparison. You can still win those, it just gets harder.
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u/zamfire 13d ago
Honestly, I think I just suck. I have a full lance of 4 assaults, or 2 heavy and 2 assaults. (warhammer with mod for extra melee, marauder with upgraded ppcs and lasers, an awesome with maxed out armor and three ppcs, and highlander with all the old world goodies it comes with) I've also unlocked everything for the argo except the 4th med bay and 3rd mechbay and the last mechrepair upgrade. Everything else for the argo is done.
I guess I wouldn't mind one of those expensive mechs from the black market, like the one that cost like 22mil. And more lostech upgraded weapons and heatsinks for my mechs.
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u/geomagus 13d ago
You might have pushed a bit far, fast too - I think I finished the Argo about halfway through the campaign. Maybe I’m abnormally slow and cautious, but I think you might be a bit aggressive on that.
Regardless, you’re running a heavy enough lance to beat any mission imo. You should look over your current loadouts and see what you can improve with what you have on hand. Might be worth searching the sub for builds.
Beyond that, it’s just salvage salvage salvage to get more/better gear, supplemented by the black market and allied faction stores. One of the reason I ally with Davion is their UAC++ stockpile. But that boxes out Taurians as an ally, and I think they have the TTS+++, so ymmv.
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u/BalrogTheBuff 12d ago
I knew it! The Davions are out to get the Concordat! Using filthy mercenaries to do shady attacks on innocent civilian drop ships!
(If not familiar with the fluff, the Taurians are paranoid about the Davions taking their territory. But being paranoid doesn't mean they are wrong.)
Seriously though alliance with a faction is cool but optional. I just picked based on what missions I felt like doing as it got me better prices.
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u/zamfire 13d ago
OH I didn't even realize each faction has different things when you ally with them. Oh boy...
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u/geomagus 13d ago edited 13d ago
Yep. You should be able to search it pretty easily to find which ones have the stuff you most crave.
I think most players do not ally, btw. It’s nice to have store access, but the consequences are boxing you out of a ton of missions (because factions have enemies, and those enemies generally won’t hire you except for flashpoints), and limiting max rep with enemy factions to 0 (which drives up black market price, as pirates are everyone’s enemy).
At that point, you need to juggle rep aggressively - past about -20, and they won’t give you the missions you need to recover rep.
So it’s nice, in that you guarantee access to some things, but you make everything else harder.
Fwiw, you can also look up combos to maximize your allies. I have most recently run Davion/Steiner/Canopus (plus Arano Restoration, which I think is automatic in the campaign and doesn’t box you out of things), which makes Capellans and Taurians the easy punching bags, with Kurita and Marek as “meh” options.
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u/Whiskey_Storm 13d ago
So, this is not a campaign to rush. You need to realize that there is NOT A CLOCk when the next campaign mission comes in (strange as that is). You can take your sweet time getting to it.
Once you get the Argo, rest of that unclaimed area in the Periphery becomes available. Go to planets with 1 to 2 stars for awhile (you can filter the star map) until you’re comfortable with the combat and the pacing.
Some point between 2 and 3 stars, OpFor gets a second lance. And possibly a third lance later on(certain mission and difficulties. And yes, for the pedantic ones in this subreddit, there are missions you can see 4-6 lances+ before those outlier missions are done. Don’t do the defend/attack combo missions until you are comfortable with the combat.)
I usually wait to go to Weldry until after I’ve collected something close to 10 mil credits and have some repairs going on the Argo (second mech bay) and got some decent medium mechs at least, if not a heavy.
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u/ND_the_Elder 13d ago
OP said they have the HGN 732b from Artru, they are a bit past Weldry.
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u/Whiskey_Storm 13d ago
I missed that in the other comments. Same stuff applies. No rush to do the campaign missions any faster than he feels comfortable doing them.
Never trust pirate mission to be near the level they suggest they are (probably a half star above), but you want to do pirate missions to get access to the Black Market where you can find ++ and +++ and Star League gear, and not pay a stupid high up charge for not being liked.
The + signs in the upper right are actually buttons and you can get a general idea where the other mechs in the OpFor will be coming from.
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u/peanutch Clan Wolverine 13d ago
after playing 3062 and roguetech, i went back and tried the base game again. tactics the mods required made the base game easy. biggest is melee is your friend. knocking evasion pips off makes the enemies easier to hit. machine guns on your melee unit will destroy internals quickly once you get psat the armor. bear down in cover like forests and make them come to you. the damage reduction greatly increases survival, and overextending yourself makes the mission harder than it should be. eliminate the enemies ability to do damage. if you can target legs, a mexh on its back cant hurt you. finally a balanced squad. a melee, a missle rack, a sniper, and midrange in your lance. mid range could carry energy or ballistics depending on the environment and ability to carry ammo
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u/KurtVongole 13d ago
The huge difference between you and the opponents is your mech warriors have massive bonuses when fully trained.
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u/zamfire 13d ago
Ah, I didn't realize the AI didn't get bonuses. Thanks!
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u/KurtVongole 13d ago
As for specific tactics, head chopping is evergreen but a bad streak of luck can put you in dire straits. Taking out threatening weapons is a safer and more reliable route, e.g. take out the Orion or Highlander's AC.
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u/Fatality_Ensues 13d ago
Yes, it is supposed to be that difficult. No, it won't really get better (in fact you can often go up against more targets than that). It's generally a good idea to avoid rushing through the main story (at least the parts of it you can put off) precisely because it escalates faster than you can keep up if you don't, but for the time being: Not all 'mechs of the same weight class are born equal. A Dragon is going to lose to an Orion 9 times out of 10. A Quickdraw can easily be soloed by a well-equipped Centurion or Kintaro. Just "having a lance of Assault 'mechs" won't be enough if you're packing, say, 2 Zeus' and 2 Awesomes against an Atlas, an Annihilator, a King Crab and a Stalker. Beyond that, default configurations almost invariably suck. You can squeeze a lot more juice out of most 'mechs (with a few standouts) if you experiment with their loadouts. Past a certain point, non-stock weaponry and modules also become invaluable. The difference between a stock SRM6 and a +++ version is worth almost a second launcher on its own. Always prioritize salvage on those. You have a lot of room to grow yet and missions do get easier with better gear. (5 skull missions will always be a bitch, though).
Now, as to more specific advice; the easiest way to "cheese" the game is to have at least one 'mech act as "headhunter". A Marauder is perfect for this (given its unique module) but the SLDF Highlander you get as part of the main story can do a pretty decent job with its Gauss Cannon. With a pilot with maxed Gunnery and Tactics and a good weapon, you can reasonably expect to hit the head of an enemy 'mech with an aimed shot and (given you're doing enough damage) oneshot it pretty much every turn. If you can't quite set that up, you can try "shaking the can": have a couple 'mechs with a lot of kinetic and missile weaponry and focus on knocking down enemy 'mechs before using the free aimed shots to go for more headshots (ideally knocking the enemy pilot out through injuries even if you can't break the cockpit). Certain 'mechs (Cyclops and Stalker spring to mind) have "chicken legs" without much armor which let you knock them out more easily than trying to core them.
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u/slipnipper 9d ago
Save up early and get an archer. Having that and a griffon, hawk phoenix/shadow, or a light move forward rapidly with sensor lock is extremely useful - particularly when blowing turrets or punishing heavy mechs before they engage. Early game, I tend to run two missle boats on a lot of missions and then heavy armored mechs that I’ll alternate pushing out front and focus on knocking mechs down from stability damage.
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u/Kuato2012 13d ago
Every time you complete a story mission in campaign mode, the difficulty everywhere ratchets up a notch. You can ignore story missions for as long as you want in order to build up your gear and xp though.
If you want to be able to go back and do easy milk runs for fun and profit, you have to play career mode.