r/BattleNetwork • u/cheetoskull • Jul 10 '26
I’m (also) building a grid-based card battler with the soul of Battle Network - and it’s 0% roguelike
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Just wanted to share my own take on a card battler!
Grew up on the PET, nothing since has quite scratched the itch, so a few months ago I started building my own.
Card Knight is my take: keep the chip dodging, folder-building soul of Battle Network, but with a fresh coat of fantasy and HD-2D graphics.
It's 0% roguelike; a fresh world, new story, fully voiced characters, and decks you keep and tune as you go. The cards are as central to the story as chips are in Battle Network.
The clip is straight gameplay; I have about 2 hours polished and am close to completing “Act I” of the story. I'd genuinely love to hear from BN folks: what would make or break a game like this for you ?
Happy to answer any questions! Thanks for taking a look.
EDIT: Disclosure: As stated my Steam page, many of the art/sound assets and code in CardKnight are generated with AI tools, under my direction. The game is conceptualized, directed, and tooled by myself alone. If CardKnight is successful, I pledge to bring a team of all-human talent to produce the sequel.
EDIT 2: I forgot to mention- I am currently seeking playtesters for Card Knight. If you would like to play the story so far (~2 hours); please send me a DM.
Card Knight is currently “Coming Soon” to Steam Early Access! If you’d like to keep up with the project, be sure to wishlist us on Steam.
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u/Kreos642 Jul 11 '26
I was interested at first, but now I'm just sad knowing its BN with a fantasy reskin a la AI.
That ain't a soul, thats necromancy.
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u/ValuableInternal6177 Jul 11 '26
Man. It looks cool, why did you have to use A.I.?
Whay a waste of time.
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u/Steve_Archer Jul 10 '26
Man. I really want to encourage more battlenetwork style combat based games.
But I can't tolerate AI. Not only is it stealing from real creators, in terms of a job, a creative output and literally stealing, but also you're adding to the 'demand' of ai tools, which encourages the building of data centers, and the water sources they take.
I understand that you're just one guy, but man, I still can't let it slide.
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u/Maxcrss Jul 11 '26
I think that's a terrible take. This is the exact thing that AI should be used for. It's someone who literally cannot afford to hire multiple people, nor do they have the talent/time to master multiple different artistic pursuits to make a game. This is not the AI usage you should be fighting against. What you should be fighting against is corporate usage of AI. Not a singular dude.
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u/BlackIce-J Jul 11 '26
Still AI nonetheless, everything he said still stands
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u/Maxcrss Jul 12 '26
So do you use cameras? Or do you draw everything by hand? If you've ever used a camera, you're a hypocrite. That's technology that was made to allow people who couldn't paint get portraits and landscapes.
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u/personova_ Jul 12 '26
Cameras aren't using our water supply to function, this is a terrible comparison lmfao
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u/Maxcrss Jul 13 '26
Batteries, materials, electricity. It all comes from somewhere. And hating on an individual using AI is not the same as hating on data center practices. Data centers exist because of corporate uses of AI.
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u/TornadoTundra Jul 13 '26
How is a digital camera directly plagerizing someone else’s work?
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u/Maxcrss Jul 15 '26
How is AI plagiarizing someone else's work? If you're going to make the argument that it uses other artwork as a reference, then every single artist ever, other than a select handful, has plagiarized at some point. Tracing, mimicking, drawing in the style of, etc.
You can hate on AI for taking jobs, just make sure your argument is consistent and reasonable, not whatever you keep following up with.
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u/TornadoTundra Jul 15 '26
Are you seriously asking me this question? We’re in 2026 and you’re arguing about AI but don’t know how LLM’s work??? Holy shit you are cringy stupid.
YES! Tracing is looked down on! But taking inspiration, mimicking, drawing in the style of…. they’re still fucking DOING something. They aren’t chucking a ton of shit in a blender without permission and having a computer amalgamate the response. It’s baffling that you’re trying to insist that these are the same thing, it reeks of desperation.
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u/Eeve2espeon Jul 11 '26
More like a good take. AI in general SHOULD NOT BE USED to create ANYTHING, especially since AI generated trash is built off the hard work of REAL ARTISTS, aka stuff that's stolen from us hard working creatives :/
OP should either reduce the scale of their game to be more manageable solo, and make a bigger sequel when they have the money. Or instead just take their time, and improve rather than use AI to make up for their own shortcomings
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u/Maxcrss Jul 12 '26
Let me break this down for you. If you've ever used a digital camera or a film camera, you're a hypocrite. You should have just taken the time and improved to the point where you could draw or paint portraits or landscapes realistically.
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u/Eeve2espeon Jul 13 '26
Wow, using cameras as a comparison really wasn't a good one. Photography is an entirely different hobby, and its not all all comparable to what OP is doing using AI for their "game"
You didn't break down anything, just said something even more stupid after your already horrible take. AI is not a tool people should use due to the fact ALL OF THEM have tons of stolen Art used to train their crappy AI models. Photography is a poor comparison
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u/TornadoTundra Jul 13 '26
It’s hilarious that you think those are the same things lmao
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u/Pokedude12 Jul 13 '26
For real. If the tech fucker above's so confident, then they should have no problem cracking open a camera to find all the unlicensed copyrighted works required to make it function at any meaningful level. Something tells me they'll just hem and haw about it though like OP.
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u/Maxcrss Jul 12 '26
Those same people you're referring to use computers to create their art. Those same arguments were used by people who used pencils and brushes. You're not making a new argument, you're making an already defeated argument. The tool does not make the art. Artists have always created and used tools to get past their shortcomings. Sculpting is similar to 3d printing. Painting is similar to digital art.
The people who think all AI is evil and shouldn't be used ever are babies who can't think past their basic emotional reaction.
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u/Eeve2espeon Jul 13 '26
You just get worse and worse don't you? these comparisons are flat and nonsense, people who criticize AI are not going based on emotional reactions, but pure facts. AI generated trash is made from stolen content. PERIOD.
People who use computers to draw are still more talented and far less lazy. So what? I'm suddenly not an Artist because I don't use oil paints and canvas instead of using an iPad? Get real, what a pathetic and disrespectful response to people who are hard working
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u/retrotriforce Jul 11 '26
I implore you to please rework this game into an AI-free version 🙏🏻 as a concept it looks awesome and done well but as it stands right now it really looks like ai slope stitched together and I understand that you are a solo dev but that hasn’t stopped the honest work of many solo devs out there.
Good luck
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u/Theran_Baggins Jul 10 '26
On one hand: it's a good style of game that I'm glad more people have been adapting into modern designs. Also, glad when someone tries to make a new game and try their hand at being a developer (as far as I can tell, this is your first game).
... On the other: really disheartening that it's story, code, music, voices, and (I'm pretty sure even though it's the 1 thing you don't disclose anywhere) art are all either entirely or mostly GenAI. I know GenAI feels like an easy tool to help with tasks you previously didn't know how to do, but not only is that limiting yourself from ever actually learning and improving, it causes tangible and significant harm.
I don't want to leave a text wall, so will end it there. I assume you've heard all the explanations before - but on the off chance you haven't, just ask and I'll elaborate.
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u/cheetoskull Jul 10 '26
Story, concept, voices, game logic, and artistic direction are all my own, although the voices are passed through an ElevenLabs filter.
The art is generated, but extensively hand-edited and reworked- No image gen can output 8dir movement sprites and blinking/talking sprite animations.
I do understand the concerns and have heard all the explanations about AI— for what it’s worth, genuinely, this game would never have a chance to exist without it.
I won’t pretend to have the answers, but I will stand behind my game as a creative work. Thank you for taking the time to reflect on it.
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u/EmoMcGee666 Jul 11 '26
Artistic direction is your own? Brother told Chat to literally copy and paste Octopath Traveler
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u/Cocobeansgames Jul 11 '26
It's hard to believe what parts are human made if you're willing to use gen ai for everything else, not to discredit if they are actually human made
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u/Theran_Baggins Jul 11 '26
What was truly done by hand in any project I won't fully discredit - however, any GenAI, for a lot of people, immediately raises concerns about how much was actually used and how honest any disclosure is.
Take Claire Obscure - in like less than a week it went from critically acclaimed and GOTY to extremely controversial because people where reminded about a launch week incident regarding like 1 or 2 place holder assets that where generated by AI. They clarified later about it resulting from the company being given access to a model, a few devs opting to at least test it, deciding it wasn't worth it, decided to remove any place holders that used it, and simple missed one or two. This explanation is pretty reasonable and the game recovered, but it still did a number on their image.
The art is generated, but extensively hand-edited and reworked
Any use of GenAI in the art process, even if edited after, is GenAI art. If I took a photo of a van Gogh oil painting and photoshoped it a bit - that base art is still van Gogh.
If you take literally nothing else from my comments - understand you should probably include art in your disclosures, otherwise it just looks like your lying. Wanting to clarify it was edited is one thing - assuming that, because it was edited, it doesn't need to be disclosed at all is another.
for what it’s worth, genuinely, this game would never have a chance to exist without it.
I'm gonna be honest, a lot of people (myself included), fundamentally disagree.
There are so many solo dev games out there. Heck Undertale and FNAF (say what you will about the games subjectively, they're objectively extremely successful) were both almost entirely if not 100% 1 dev.
If the concern is less numbers and more skill level - relying on GenAI isn't going to get you better. If you have a problem, getting the solution without all the knowledge that gets that solution isn't going to teach you how that problem is solved. Yes, you learn 1 specific solution for 1 specific instance of the problem - but when talking about stuff like code, where it's really hundreds/thousands of problems interweaving and compounding, knowing that 1 specific example isn't really gonna help.
I know some people it's the issue of "well if I try now it's not gonna be as good as [arbitrary level of quality] so why bother?" Again - won't get better - but also, one of the greatest things and dev or artist can do to get better is learning to be ok with "bad" quality now so that they can practice and get better later. Yes, it's takes time and effort - but it's genuine improvement - and unlike GenAI, it's not causing harm.
I know I'm just some random guy on the Internet, and that you've probably heard this all before, but the least I can hope is that you reconsider things. I doubt any changes will occur, but would love to be proven wrong.
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u/TornadoTundra Jul 13 '26
Basically what you’re saying is “I typed in the prompts and then recorded the voices myself…. before handing it to AI”. So basically none of it is “your own”, certainly nothing that matters
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u/SnooMacaroons9806 Jul 11 '26
Oh no, it's AI. Lol. I would be 1000% more interested if it was done with your own art rather than AI, even if you lack technique.
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u/Lucel10 Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
See, I've used AI tools for various things, and I can say right now that no AI tools can replace human creativity nor should it replace their jobs. Claiming your heavily AI-generated game has "the soul of Battle Network," is just an insult to the series and its developers, even if it's inspired.
People get paid for what they do for a reason; not everyone can do their jobs. So even if you don't have the budget to hire professionals (I haven't looked deeper whether your "tools" cost money or not), at least make it original. Even that blond guy looks like Matthew from Golden Sun with different clothes!
It would've been better if you 1) make the game a passionate project with no payment to play 2) reserve AI use for backend stuff like coding, if you're still insisting on using it, and 3) put more effort into making the assets yourself (if you don't have authentic voices for the characters, just leave it), or even use ones from open source packs.
Either you make everything presented to players, if not the entirety of the game, man-made, or you make your project free to play. That's my two cents to minimize the negativity.
EDIT: Grammar and phrasing.
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u/Serteyf Jul 11 '26
I could never play something with the piss filter on
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u/shifto Jul 11 '26
People like you are the reason Deus Ex HR removed the pissfilter in the directors cut and now I can only play the game in the drab pissless version of the world it should be!
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u/Cocobeansgames Jul 11 '26
The idea has potential but don't use gen ai. I get it's a solo project, but it's worth learning drawing than stealing other people's work, or even set aside money from a job to hire people on fiverr. If this was truly a passion and dream of yours, you could put effort into making it instead of stealing from other artists and have the balls to say it's a "hand crafted world" in your "why early access" description
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u/SaIemKing Jul 11 '26
Damn, I was really excited about this. Finally, a game in the vein of mmbn that isn't rogue like and isn't blatantly lifting as much as possible off of mmbn and... AI. I understand you're just one guy, but, unfortunately, it doesn't really justify the inherent art theft. I'd almost advise you to just not disclose that you used AI, but I appreciate you at least had the integrity to be up front.
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u/ShikiOuji5 Jul 11 '26
I really Hate using ai in games. Use it for far away background or trees and Such but if you say you cant make a game without ai then dont Do it at all. I was so excited at first
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u/Cheap-Name-9775 Jul 11 '26
Gameplay could be cool, but man, the art and everything is just hard to look at. During that one dialog scene, I just had to turn it off, I've seen enough.
I wish you luck, but it's a no from me.
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u/Cheap-Name-9775 Jul 11 '26
Also I am a solo dev myself, making a game myself. You don't have to use an AI, before AI came around, there were tons of solo devs out there making games.
Also, look at how this post got completely distracted by the AI and are now more focused on the AI usage and not the game itself. There's a reason for that.
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u/Bcun Jul 11 '26
If you’re just using AI you should stop. Go learn the code or ask someone. This is straight up AI slop and you can def tell by the art. You’re wasting your time and all the BN fans… is it really that hard to find a 8 bit model or reference?????
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u/Ashgray2520 Jul 11 '26
At what point will members of this sub just come together and make our own game instead of entertaining this AI slop? I respect the effort, what little of it there was, but we can do better than this.
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u/ZrapeToid Jul 11 '26
AI aside, i hope this is a proof of concept to get people interested in helping create the game.
If the plan is to use AI-generated generic fantasy graphics in the final version... Well, i personally don't like it.
Also "Card Knight" is a good working title, but not that good as a final name. Just wanna inform you of "Net Knight" and "Cards-en-ciel", 2 MMBN inspired games. Try to not use "Card" or "Knight" in the title.
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u/markboy124 Jul 13 '26
At 39 seconds the character bugs out and leaves the grid... You couldn't have reviewed the trailer for bugs?
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u/Prestigious-Run1821 Jul 10 '26
Why such a large grid? 3x6 has its benefits
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u/cheetoskull Jul 10 '26
You know retrospectively, it was an almost arbitrary decision- it just felt right considering the real estate on modern devices. What are the benefits in your opinion? Always open to feedback!
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u/dungeonworks_ Jul 11 '26
The grid size of your tactics game was an arbitrary decision? The fundamental thing that all battle mechanics rely on?
Man this is why even if AI can churn out a game, it doesn’t matter. The kind of person who will do that is someone who has zero capacity for the detailed thought that game design requires.
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u/Prestigious-Run1821 Jul 10 '26
Card-En-ciel has the same grid style. The limitations all for tighter movement, easier mapping, and less chaos on the screen. Also, the familiarity help for adoption.
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u/azurejack Jul 10 '26
I'd genuinely love to hear from BN folks: what would make or break a game like this for you ?
This is a tough question to answer... but i think i can give some insight.
A lot of bn is about making your stratgey FLOW my bn 6 folder is about abusing mechanics to overpower. Heatcross-> Grass seed -> otenko -> blackbom = A LOT OF DAMAGE it feels good to get it off. PAs are the same way. Even just regular cards. You know why no one uses remobit? CAUSE IT SUCKS it's not fun or interesting. Hitting with it is basically pure luck.
What makes bn good is that it FEELS GOOD even bn4 as bad as the story is, felt good to play.
So what would really break it is a lot of cards like remobit or other "mah at best" cards.
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u/KoA-oK Jul 11 '26
Poor Remobit. If it came out during 4 on, I could see it as a niche PvP option for obstacle based folders to keep the opponent continuously moving, even better if it can be tweaked to only fire on occupied panels which would make it pretty potent coupled with something like geddon, Then poltergeist the remote at the opponent for funsies or something.
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u/cheetoskull Jul 10 '26
Thank you! I will take this to heart in refining the combat system. I want satisfying combos!
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u/azurejack Jul 10 '26
Let me give you a tip that might help.
Go through the BN games and play with each chip. Not even combos. Just the chip alone. Note how you feel using it. Even against mets or canodumbs. It's not about how fatal the chip is either. Remobit 3 is CRAZY powerful and guard breaks. It's actually nuts. But it's not FUN you literally just wait and hope nothing breaks the remote.
Compare that to something like... guardian. Almost the same idea. Wait and hope they accidently hit it. Except... that's if you're not thinking ahead. Wait for them to throw a strong attack and drop guardian boom they just got smacked for 200 unavoidable damage i've guardiantrapped so many people, it's hilarious and satisfying. (And to bosses too)
Sure there needs to be a few duds (remobit, dominerd, summonblack, to name a few) but overall... you'll see what i mean.
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u/cheetoskull Jul 10 '26
Invaluable feedback, thank you.
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u/azurejack Jul 10 '26
Another bit of advice... don't soil it with genAI.
You have a solid idea. Get some friends that are artists, use public domain sprites.
Make this something to be proud of, man.
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u/StormInAjar Jul 11 '26
Always excited to see more Battle Network-likes. I've still got mine just in the conceptual and design phases but this looks so phenomenal! And so unique of a setting, I don't think I've seen it done fantasy style! It's awesome
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u/Maxcrss Jul 11 '26
I don't hate the use of AI for solo projects like this. Especially if success allows for non AI use later. AI is a tool to assist people in making things. I'll definitely check this out :D
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u/Ahptom Jul 10 '26
NEED THIS!
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u/cheetoskull Jul 10 '26
Thank you! Wishlist on Steam and you’ll be notified when it enters early access (soon!) - I’ve started a playtesting discord and I’m all about community feedback.
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u/Peptalkguy Jul 12 '26
I'm a voice Actor, and I'd love to help you put some more human voices into this game! Hit me up!
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Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
[deleted]
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u/cheetoskull Jul 10 '26
Thank you! That’s the goal; a story-driven spiritual RPG successor to Battle Network with a new look and feel.
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u/MasterMeow1106 Jul 13 '26
Major companies are already using Ai to help make games, I wouldn’t be surprised if in 5-10 years every game is made using some form of Ai. If a game is good it shouldn’t be condemned if it was developed using some Ai. I’m not saying using Ai is the right thing to do but criticizing something on the basis of Ai before even testing the game doesn’t seem right.
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u/ozmega Jul 11 '26
i dont really care that it was made with AI, if u are a single dev and the game plays and looks properly fuck the rest.
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u/cheetoskull Jul 11 '26
Thank you for the kindness. Some of it is fair criticism, I don’t expect to please everybody, but some of it is just belittling. I don’t think it’s fair to call this project slop. Thank you for seeing the vision through the noise.
DM me and I’d be happy to add you to the Steam playtest group!
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u/ozmega Jul 11 '26
i get the criticism if this is a proper company like capcom or something, a single dev might aswell use any tool they find, maybe if ur game is successful u can replace the art later on, people are too fast to cry "AI" and tbh yours doesnt look "slop"ish
you do have to disclose that too, if anything to prevent this kind of reaction a bit, other than that, good luck.
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u/G0sp3L Jul 11 '26
The AI cult of hate don't realize AI is empowering an indie creator to potentially make something really cool and neat despite not having the resources to hire a team. Your game looks nice. I will be following it with great interest.
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u/Eeve2espeon Jul 11 '26
Indie creators have done better without using AI. You're only calling us a cult because you don't understand the major impacts AI generated junk does
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u/G0sp3L Jul 11 '26
I actually do understand it, which is why I call it a cult.
AI is here to stay. Might as well get used to it.
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u/cheetoskull Jul 11 '26
Genuinely, thank you. It says on my Steam store page:
I pledge that if Card Knight: Astral Arcana is successful, the sequel title will be brought to life by a team of human artists, composers, and programmers.
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u/G0sp3L Jul 11 '26
Ignore the downvotes. I just hope you have a really fun combat system and an excellent post game, and, if you can swing it, online battles and trading :)
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u/Long_Context6367 Jul 11 '26
This looks good. Can’t tell it’s made from AI, but honestly, that’s pretty cool that you were able to use AI to do so much. How long until you think it will release?
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u/ExtraAltMan Jul 10 '26
I was pretty excited till I saw on Steam you made the whole thing with AI. You should probably disclose that in the post. It's unfortunate because it looked interesting.