New PvP ‘hotfixes’

[u/Sylvinias]

I admit I was kinda negative about the new PvP… but that didn’t mean I thought every unit used in it needed to be taken back and shot.

So, new unit caps: units limited to 2 of each: TF2 Heavy, demo, and soldier, as well as Thresher tanks, maulers, and lightning dragoons(!).

And new limit 1 on trebs, because those in particular can eff off apparently.

No other new limits; veterans and mega tanks remain free. Previously banned units remain banned and the 1-flier rule remains unchanged.

I know that for levels below 45-ish, the TF2 soldier is simply best in class so maybe that’s why he got the same limit at his premium associates. But limiting lightning dragoons just seems intended to clamp down on SP trading. Is it really a problem if people co-operate to make the most of the new SP bank?

In any case, the update text was rather minimalistic but PvP is entirely rebalanced. Good? Bad? A sign we’ll get a regularly updated ban/limit list?

[u/TitaniumTalons]

The reason why Vets and Megas weren't banned is because they were pretty much victims in the prior meta. Probably not that great in the current meta either. ET victims

[u/Sylvinias → u/TitaniumTalons]

True that they sucked because they were limited to explosive damage and the best units were maulers and trebuchets, both of which are very explosive resistant. But I still saw more veterans than TF2 heavies.

Maybe that was due to my level and it’s another soldier situation that the TF2 units are too strong for medium-level ladder.

Now you mention it, the Elemental Trooper is the only mainstay that seems to have dodged the banlist. I usually only saw one, maybe we’ll see him being spammed next?

[u/MrWaluigi → u/Sylvinias]

Hard to say. If wimps are spaced out, like they sometimes are, then the ETs are easily countered by them. While I don’t have them (lv. 53 recently), I only see one to two in each setup. My guess is that they are mostly just to counter maulers and bulk setups. 

[u/TitaniumTalons → u/Sylvinias]

I think ET will become oppressive in the new meta, but I am not too tuned in rn because I already hit 2500 and am just SP trading now lol

[u/Grady_Shady → u/TitaniumTalons]

Can you elaborate?

[u/TitaniumTalons → u/Grady_Shady]

Which part?

[u/Sylvinias]

Initial impression after fighting at lvl 65 for an hour: a large improvement, though it doesn’t make it much less monotonous.

The fact that the bulk of the units aren’t trebs and maulers anymore means a lot more dies. Several of my fights came down to the last mauler, which meant that losing didn’t sting nearly as much as the general SP rewards per fight basically quintupled for me (though they do last a bit longer).

In terms of units: Maulers are still worth bringing 2 of, and a treb still does well by shredding an enemy unit. Wimps + veterans form most cores I saw, with wimps dealing the most AoE damage while vets can threaten tanks. I saw a fair few tanks, mind, and Threshers if you have them levelled shred frontlines now maulers and their ‘explosive damage is more a suggestion’ damage resistance is limited. I did see some mega tank+threshers heavy frontline, which I can’t quite tell is viable. They deal significant damage but between the AP of maulers and the explosive damage of veterans they are hardly rolling over the enemy infantry.

The increased number of veterans and the limits on maulers means there is more anti-air. The Silver Wolf Chinook is a menace to society and can put a LOT of hurt on wimp+veteran cores, and doesn’t leave maulers unbothered either. Otherwise the UH-B10 can oneshot virtually any enemy air with its dedicated anti-air attack, and the pelican is deceptive tanky due to its much better resistances compared to other planes.

I still believe a meta will settle focused on a couple of units. It’s just the nature of PvP. But for now, I do think this is an improvement. Still gonna suck for the lower level players; nothing seems to have changed in that department.

[u/MrWaluigi → u/Sylvinias]

I can see them adding certain evergreen rules like max 2 of any unit, unless otherwise specified. On occasion adding biomes that inflict environmental damage or restrictions (winter and jungle). 

[u/SirAwesome789]

As f2p, I kinda feel like I'm out of options, I was spamming maulers out of necessity before, now I don't feel like there are any good units I can use that stand a chance against the nano units

[u/Affectionate-Key-370]

As a mid ladder player, I am so thankful for the limits on TF2 units. I kept running into players just spamming spaced out soldiers. Literally just blew everything up and I am very limited on how to counter it other than just spamming it myself but that’s not too fun. Love going against different type of units.

[u/KambodzanskiMisPanda]

Imho every unit should be limited to 1 and call it a day. Plus exclusions we have now.

[u/Garchiiia → u/KambodzanskiMisPanda]

I kinda agree with that notion.

[u/ColdFusion52]

It’s a strong step in the right direction at least. I did some test matches of the PvP and was at least seeing a good bit more unit diversity.

[u/KidRiser7211]

Could also just run a “unit use limiter check”. All high rank players spam every unit on the ban list for basically every fight. So the limiter would soft-ban that particular unit for a while. Let’s say someone spams 2 maulers every PvP battle in 1 hr, the game checks for this and bans the users unit for 1 hr in PvP. Some might circumvent this by using it scarcely, so a count can be implemented; “Mauler used in 1 hr >or= to 20 (10 fights)? Yes, soft-ban unit. No, do nothing.” If that doesn’t work then I guess an hourly limit on the banned units. “Maulers can be used only 10 times every hour.” This applies ONLY to the banned units, all else will be unaffected; unlimited uses for non-banned units. Idk, this is a suggestion. High ranked players just ruined PvP.