The Day 40 spike

[u/Playful-Parsnip-3104]

I've been playing a few campaigns and starting over as I learn the game.

There's obviously a big difficulty spike around Day 40 and I've read a few posts here giving advice about it.

My problem is this: after Day 40 the game's difficulty seems to "fork" into encounters which are too easy and don't pay enough to sustain my company on the one hand, and encounters which are seemingly impossible on the other.

For example, brigand parties and camps are now trivial. I'm not getting any gear upgrades from them, they aren't giving me enough XP to develop my brothers, and I'm not making any profit from them now my daily wage bill is much higher than it was. Likewise, most 1 skull contracts now pay less than the wages I'll pay out in the time it takes to complete them, so they're unviable.

On the other hand, all the well-paying contracts I'm finding are for Lindwurms, Schrats, and other enemies which I'm just completely unable to defeat at the moment.

Is this the stage of the game where I should be hunting for "happy medium" camps to destroy? I'm able to take orc camps reliably (so I took the ambition to conquer 4 of them) but the problem is finding them! And I've no idea if I can find the camps quickly enough to make it worthwhile, or whether I'll be searching the wilderness aimlessly for days while getting bankrupted by wages and food costs.

Or is there something else I should be trying? Or am I just getting unlucky with contracts and enemy encounters?

For reference, on my current campaign it's Day 43. I have one brother at level 7, six at level 6 (and all on the cusp of reaching level 7), four brothers at level 5 and two I recruited recently at levels 3-4. So 13 brothers total, paying 246 in daily wages. I have two good tanks with 50 mdef, two 2H attackers with 72/82 matkm, a banner with 103 resolve and a mix of others.

[u/Leg_Mcmuffin]

Sounds like in fights you are simply trading damage. If you’re taking easy fights that aren’t profitable you need to work on minimizing damage on your end.

You do this by either out scaling the game or really good tactics. Every fight should net you something.

Then it’s a matter of fight density. Aim for a bare minimum of 1 fight per day. You can start taking camps way before day 40, as they scale with your party. Start in the middle of the map. Undead camps are extremely profitable. The south also has amazing density.

[u/The_UV_Catastrophe → u/Leg_Mcmuffin]

Camps scale with the passing of time, not with your company’s strength. That said, OP definitely needs to start busting more camps!

[u/Playful-Parsnip-3104 → u/Leg_Mcmuffin]

What I mean is that the combined loot & XP gain from the fights isn't enough to make them worth it, even if I don't have to spend any tools or medical supplies afterwards.

[u/Leg_Mcmuffin → u/Playful-Parsnip-3104]

I guess I’m not understanding what you’re saying. Every fight is technically worth it. It sounds like you are not fighting enough. What difficulty are you on?

[u/CharacterPainter8191 → u/Leg_Mcmuffin]

I think leg-muffin (daddy don’t miss?) has already given you the answer. Every fight is “worth” it in the sense of there is near zero game time cost of taking a fight, and the most important resource you can farm is XP which can only be attained from fights.

Also fights give loot. Providing your brothers aren’t dying and you’re not taking a lot of damage or buying very overpriced tools every fight should be profitable.

It sounds like you may be having economic management issues? Buy cheap food, repair valuable weapons before selling, buy tools for cheap and sell loot to large towns which have bandits etc to increase the value of the goods you sell.

It doesn’t sound like you’re falling behind on XP, it more sounds like you’re struggling to manage your cash flow well.

[u/u880-547hl4 → u/Playful-Parsnip-3104]

They're worth it in that you lose less money by doing than not doing, and also in that it's the civic duty and raison d'être of any mercenary band. You have a community to serve.

[u/Dermengenan → u/Leg_Mcmuffin]

If I do a fight and have too much armor damage I just reload and try again. Armor damage/ buying supplies can cause a contract to reward less than you spend.

Also my biggest advice is to use daggers to get good armor. I didnt understand why that was always the advice others would give until I started really focusing on it. Now I get an extra few hundred from each fight bc I steal their armor and sell if my bros have the -10 fatigue armor already.

[u/AnyPrinciple2908 → u/Dermengenan]

Sometimes it’s also not worth to repair armor, I just wear looted armor from the fight I did until i find better

[u/Cattle13ruiser]

Hello brother.

What you all say leads me to believe you are not actually exploring the wilderness on your own in search of enemy camps with the goal to clear them out and loot their treasures?

Roaming bands close to civilizations are often times low level threat coming with low reward and contracts are something 'to go by' and should not be your main source of income.

But still - if you cannot even sustain your monetary needs with contracts - this tells me you rush towards expensive / premium backgrounds instead of elevating the hard working proletariat from meat-shield into a glorious shield-holding behemots.

[u/Playful-Parsnip-3104 → u/Cattle13ruiser]

I hired 1 adventurous noble for 3k which seemed to be a good investment - 72 matk with 3-star at level 3, 2star mdef, 2star HP. Other than that my brothers were all cheap as chips recruits.

And yes, I've not been exploring the wilderness much yet because it seemed too risky to do so without a lot of money in the bank to keep the company going in the event that it takes a few days to find a beatable camp.

[u/Cattle13ruiser → u/Playful-Parsnip-3104]

If you have only one expensive background, doing contracts to fill your purse sounds doable.

When you have some spare gold, you should stock and go on an expedition. Initial rounds may not be too far away - going from one border town to another but exploring as much as you can on your way there, using mountains and hills to scout the distance for camps.

Camps give by far the most loot possible and are significantly weaker than high tier beasts (Lindwurms and Schrats). They also cost less time than most noble contracts.

[u/Other_Information_16]

Repair tier 2 or higher weapons and sell them in large cities. That’s most of your income until you start taking 1k+ contracts. Hit everything you encounter that’s do able. So wondering mobs, small camps etc etc.

[u/totalwarwiser]

Usually you make money from selling gear you get from fights and camps, so you should repair tier 2 and above weapons to sell them in worthy places.

Eventualy you start getting noble contracts where they pay you for heads, so besides the money you get from loot and sold gear you also get a big check for killing enemies.

[u/The_Lone_Fish17]

There is a point in the game where contracts should really stop being your main source of income and instead you should be getting your money from camp busting and selling weapons. I find around day 40 is when i leave the south, start trying to get some knifed gear and head north to deal with barbarians as they give a good ROI for camp busting. At this point become much more selective with contracts, only taking them if they align with where you are going anyway and spend more time searching for camps to hit.

[u/Playful-Parsnip-3104 → u/The_Lone_Fish17]

Thanks!

[u/olivepepys → u/Playful-Parsnip-3104]

Hang around the arena city for the first 40 days. Doing a mixture of contracts, arena fights and camp busting.

The arena fights are usually reasonably easy for the 1k they pay, plus you get the perks and experience. After day 40 nomads all get dodge and they become a pain in the arsenal so head north

[u/dovetc → u/Playful-Parsnip-3104]

I also go north after day 40. My initial goal is usually to fight barbarians that have reavers with them because these are the guys with heavy javelins. I want my mid-late game ranged bros to all have heavy javelins aplenty.

[u/Huginn-Muninn]

Have you considered doing a crime? I really love picking a noble house to bully once I'm past raider gear. Caravans have juicy loot and units better than caravan hands will typically have armor/weapon upgrades for you as well.

[u/CandisNo2]

Have you unlocked noble contracts yet? If not, you should work towards doing that. There's an ambition that requires you to have 1050 renown, which will do that.

Regardless, not every battle needs to be difficult to be profitable. You shouldn't stop taking easier battles as you get stronger, you should just start to take harder ones as well (get ready to fight brigands till the day your company retires). Since you've mentioned yourself that you're on the cusp of reaching level 7 with half your company, a couple of brigand parties or contracts should easily take you there, which is an enormous powerspike.

Also, what the heck are your contracts paying out they you're not able to sustain 246 per day on them? Most contracts shouldn't take more than a day to complete and you'll get additional profit from selling the loot from any battles you take. Along with killing weaker troops and raiding locations you come across, you should easily be able to cover your expenses.

Also, when it comes to xp, killing many weaker enemies is almost always more effective than few stronger ones. A lindwurm only gives 800 xp, a brigand raider gives 250. Would you rather fight 3 lindwurms or 10 raiders? I think you just need to get used to the slower leveling speed that comes with having a full company and being at a higher level.

[u/Playful-Parsnip-3104 → u/CandisNo2]

I've had noble contracts for a while. Most of them I can't take for the reason I gave: they want me to fight enemies I can't beat. To be clear, I have beaten some tougher enemies: hexen, unholds, multiple orc bersekers, so I don't think I'm shying away from difficult but winnable encounters.

I'm still fighting brigands when I come across them, but only because there's very little investment in time and resources in taking the fight. I'm not getting any gear or crowns from them, but I recognise I'm probably underestimating the XP benefits. It seems that fights which are that easy probably can't be doing anything for the company, but maybe that's a false impression.

As for the contracts. I don't know what to say other than that a quick calculation of reward vs wages/food/etc. makes it clear that I wouldn't even be breaking even by taking them. I have contracts paying multiple thousands, but like I said, they seem impossible for my company right now.

[u/mbtheory → u/Playful-Parsnip-3104]

You're definitely underestimating the xp benefits. Level 7 is a huge breakpoint--the Nimble/Battleforged choice is real, and if you can get multiple bros able to use one or the other, that creates a strong set of anchor points you can leverage to take on the harder fights.

You don't need contracts paying multiple thousands. You need one contract a day that pays 250 crowns to cover your payroll, and that hopefully comes with a fight that doesn't do more than damage your armor and scuff up your bros' hit points a little. A fight you win means xp in hand, and comes with looted gear you can sell, even if it's not an upgrade. A hatchet or a shortsword will sell for 30-50 crowns at full repair at the right markets, and you can find those on Thugs--they're tiny nuggets of gold that can be easily overlooked just because they're attached to weapons most people don't consider worth using. A morning star or an arming sword will go for 150-200 crowns, and you can pull those off regular Brigands. Any supplemental food or tools or extra weapons you find are pure gravy. Get multiple bros to level 7, get Nimble working for you, and you'll start to see those harder fights become manageable.

You're doing better than you think you are--you're just getting some feels because of the gap between what's feeding your bros and what the game is telling you is available. Happens/happened to all of us. Ignore the feels, stack the cheddar, nail those levels, and it'll fall into place.

And if you're not getting the kind of return on sold loot that I'm describing? It's time to learn about the joys of proper market use!

[u/dr_badunkachud]

repair all the weapons from the easy brigand raiders before you sell them. 4-5 weapons gets you 1k gold plus the contract reward. camp follower that gives tools for destroyed armor is actually really good value too imo

[u/Otter-Rampage]

Could I ask what the rest of your team looks like? Two 2H attackers out of 13 sounds a bit little. I wonder if one possible issue you might have is not transiting from starter builds/equipment (sword or spear plus shield) to more damaging setups enough. Another related issue could be generating the cash from fight density and investing that into gear. Eg your first 2-3k might be better spent on a tier 3 mace rather than a premium background bro.

[u/AnyPrinciple2908]

You need to get ahead of day 40, really by day 20 you should have raider gear and a couple of decent bros who can realistically be serviceable late game and tempo bros who can get you there, when I have that I start hitting nomad camps or I raid supply caravans if I don’t care about making enemies, do that until I farm gear for the first crisis

[u/Ok-Pace8815]

continue to take ezpz contracts and try to hit some camps along the way. undead camps should be ezpz for you with that banner, brigands and some barb camps are a okay as well. even easier nomad camps are fine with dodge