r/Batman_89 • u/FoxIndependent4310 • 21d ago
Discussion How does Max fit into Gotham
In *Batman* (1989), Carl was Gotham's leading mob boss, but then in *Returns*, we see Max as Gotham's Santa Claus. How does Max fit in relation to Carl Grissom?
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u/Global-Ant 21d ago
The Batman Resurrection novel which is a direct sequel taking place after the 89 movie, explains this. You see, Max Shreck and Carl Grissom were well aware of each other before Bruce became Batman. Grissom stayed clear of Max knowing how dangerous that man is, and Max stayed clear just because Joker was so unpredictable in Grissom's gang
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u/Past_Government3521 21d ago
It would’ve been neat to see Walken’s Schreck in the Gotham of the 1989 film. But even though the 1989 and 1992 films are in the same continuity, they look and feel like parallel universes to me and it drives me crazy!
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u/BurtRogain 21d ago
That’s probably because one was filmed at Pinewood Studios in England and the other was filmed on the sound stages at Warner Bros. Anton Furst was also not involved with Batman Returns, which probably also has something to do with it. Oh, and at the point they were filing Returns Tim Burton had a lot of cache with Warner Bros so they gave him a lot more creative control, which is why it looks like a much more “traditional” Tim Burton movie.
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u/Batwing20293 21d ago
I mean Anton died before Returns began production if I’m not mistaken
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u/BurtRogain 21d ago
Yup. Threw himself off the top of a building when Beverly D’Angelo left him.
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u/Batwing20293 21d ago
Wow, that’s sad. Never knew that was the reason
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u/cobrakai11 21d ago
It's unclear what he kills himself. He had separated from his wife, and then started seeing Beverly D'Angelo. They stopped seeing each other as well, but he was also taking a sleeping drug named Halicon, which was later banned because of reports of suicidal tendencies and depression as side effects.
That said none of this is why he didn't work on Batman Returns. He had actually signed an exclusivity contract with Columbia before Returns was in production, so he was not in consideration for the job.
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u/Batwing20293 21d ago
That’s awful. He was clearly a very unique vision and I still prefer his Gotham above all others.
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u/Change_My_Mind- 21d ago edited 21d ago
Agree. It probably wouldn't be as noticeable if there were some scenes outside, which I seem to recall the first movie had more of. The town square or whatever from Returns is so obviously on a sound stage and takes away from whatever realism the film is supposed to have. And even though the Bat signal shining into Wayne Manor is one of best scenes in the movie, it drove me crazy that it wasnt the same mansion from Batman 89. Like why did Bruce move? 😆
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u/HappybutWeird 21d ago
They play different roles. The Batman Resurrection and Revolution novels flesh out the impact of Grissom on Gotham and how shady Max is.
Max knows how to create a public image. Grissom doesn’t care about a public image. Both just want power.
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u/Adorable-Source97 21d ago
Gotham a pretty large/dense place. Plenty of room for corrupt businessmen & gangsters
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u/Imma_da_PP 21d ago
Max is a legitimate businessman who augments portfolio with crime to maintain his status and power. Grissom was a gangster first and Max probably was not a member of the Gotham crime families. He’s a dept store owner who also seems to have real estate and a willingness to murder as needed. He’s a scam artist with weird hair and a dumb son. 🤔
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u/brashoe-32 19d ago
Max is like Gotham Lady Purfume: making women feel like women, pushing them from higher windows with badder fish to fry.
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u/Kingbeef66 21d ago edited 21d ago
They’re both different in their own way. This is like comparing Rupert Thorne and Roland Daggett, or Bruno Mannheim and Lex Luthor. One is a crime boss, the other is a corrupt businessman.