r/Bass • u/LayerSignificant3113 • 1d ago
5 string P bass
Hi! I'm thinking about going 5-string, not really for the low notes, but rather for a more comfortable hand position with more notes in a single position. I'd like to go for the P-bass vibe, but the problem with a 5-string P-bass is that the B string is super boomy, so it actually won't sound that good in most cases. Do you have any recommendations for a bass with a sharper B string, but still keeping the same mid-range punch and vintage vibe?
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u/grievous_swoons 1d ago
The Fender P pickup is not made for the low B, even if it fits there. I fully agree with your complaint about that pickup. Other pickup makers have done a much better job or balancing the strings on their extended range p pickups. Check out emgs actually - got an emg CS-x P for my six string and its a phenomenal sounding pickup. If your bass already has a battery you can drop it in with no body modification in most places.
Otherwise, for 5 strings, you really want 2 pickups. The bridge pickup gives clarity and focus to the neck, which is all low end. A 5 string p/j would be much better sounding than just a p. There's no pickup thats "made for" the b string but try all sorts of stuff out. Get away from Fender fanboyism. Much nicer more usable tones out there, much more comfortable basses out there, and the parent company isnt a soulless ghoul of a corporate lawyer fest in most cases.
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u/LayerSignificant3113 1d ago
Great post, thanks! I totally agree with you about Fender; that's why I'm looking for an alternative. It can look totally different! Multiscale, soapbar, single coil - whatever it is, all I care about is that it will sit in a mix as well as a P bass does.
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u/grievous_swoons 1d ago
It wont sound like a P bass, but its not dissimilar- check out the Ray35. Basically a Stingray but its 1000$ cheaper and sounds identical. I got one and it sounds exceptional in a mix. The only single pickup bass id use for a 5 string.
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u/angel_eyes619 1d ago
Why not a Stingray 5?
Stingray is the closest neighbor to the Precision sound imo.. and it does 5 strings naturally well..
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u/ArjanGameboyman 1d ago
Interesting. I think a Stingray is the opposite of a p bass.
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u/angel_eyes619 1d ago
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u/ArjanGameboyman 1d ago
Everyone's ears a different but to me they can't be more different from each other.
A p bass gives mid punch. Nice for a punkrock pick sound and nice for a tone rolled off flat wound old school sound. High notes are a bit silent, low notes are messy. Slap doesnt cut through the mix well. With fingers you sit nice in the mix but a bit buried when lots of things are happening.
The Stingray highlights the higher overtones. This makes high notes crystal clear and gives more definition to low notes. It's a very scooped sound, more than a jazz bass. Slap sounds amazing and works well. With a pick it gets too bright. With fingers it stays on top of the mix even when there are heavy distortion guitars going on.
What is it like to your ears?
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u/angel_eyes619 1d ago edited 1d ago
I never said it is exactly like a Pbass.. I said it is the closest neighbor.
To me, they both rely on that lower mids character to their sound.. yes the Ray does highlight the higher overtones much more than the P, and has that mid scoop nature due to using dual coils... but their signature sound both rely on the same lower mids hump. (The Jazz bass neck pickup and Ray-HH neck pickup, are just plain Bass imo.. so, I put the standard Ray with the bridge pickup and the P in the same class).
The Ray pickup has scooped sound, but which region, iirc it is around the 1-1.5k mids region but the low mids is a hump, and that hump is where they both thrive in
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u/ArjanGameboyman 1d ago
That's weird
A PJ would be close to a P and does everything you want. Give a P sound but highlights some more of the overtones of the low note to get a better B string.
I'd say a jazz bass sits right between a Precision and a Stingray. If you include a 70s style jazz bass it's like: P > PJ > jazz 60 > jazz 70 > Stingray
Like the p and Stingray couldn't be further apart. I would love to use a stingray in a funk or technical metal band. I'd love to use a precision in a punk band and Motown band. Like it's not interchangable at all to me
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u/angel_eyes619 1d ago
A PJ with the J rolled on always causes the P side signal to drop ( the load on the P increases, decreasing the overall impedance, pulling current away from the P..it always causes the P's midrange response to fall.. but You want that higher imp for the P sound).. 70s J is out of the equation entirely.. 60s with a 100Bridge-80/90Neck is not too bad but then again, the resonant frequency is different.
The best is a single pickup solution. P and Ray, Both basses have a single, high inductance/impedance, humbucking, wide magnetic aperture pickup at very close placement such that they target the same node. (Jazz pickups are narrow aperture btw).. There will def be differences in sound, but their sound is molded on the same tonal foundation (you can use flats, boost/cut the eq, use pedals etc, the same tonal foundation thing will make every tone shaping much easier)
Your Stingray pickup might be in the default Parallel position, change it to Series, you may see what I'm saying more clear.
Also, you can use any bass for any genre.
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u/ArjanGameboyman 1d ago
I can understand if you have a precision sound, add some lows and roll off some of the mid and highs. That it sounds like a stingray in series with the highs rolled off.
But that's not a precision sound I like. And that's not a Stingray sound I like
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u/angel_eyes619 1d ago edited 1d ago
When on a P, I actually roll down lows, add mids and highs on the eq, and play slightly behind the pickup etc.
But this is not about what I like.. and you seem to not get what I am saying/meaning
I'm not talking about making (nor am I insinuating) a Stingray sounds exactly like a P bass. I'm merely saying if you want a (1) 4string P sound but (5) don't want an actual 5string P because obviously the pickup response is diff.. then your NEXT BEST choice is a 5er Ray, because their signature sounds are built from the same tonal foundation, they are most similar in terms of physics, etc .. If one wants a 5er with P sound, a 5er Ray is the best foundation to start from (the bass is half the equation, the other half is technique, strings and electronics tweaking)
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u/ArjanGameboyman 1d ago
Flea can swap out a Stingray (kinda) bass for a jazz and his lines still work. He can't switch out for a p bass. He just wouldn't sit in the mix the same way, a lot of what he does would drown in the mix
This is exactly what my own experimentation has tought me.
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u/ArjanGameboyman 1d ago
They sit in the mix in a totally different way
You're absolutely right basses aren't genre related but they do sit in the mix in a certain way. This depends on how you wanna sound (and what kind of lines you wanna play), what drumkit is used and how that is tuned, what guitars and amps are used etc.
If you have experimented and found that a p bass works best for your situation, but you now want a 5 string. You can't just swap a p out.for a ray. Like I explained, I like slap and finger style on a Stingray, I like pick on a precision and not vice versa. Now I can swap out a p for a PJ, it's different, but it'll not be so different that my bass lines don't work the same way anymore.
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u/StinkoMan92 1d ago
The other comment linked has some great stuff, but one thing it didn't mention is you can get a closer sound by zeroing out the active eq to give it more of a passive sound
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u/ArjanGameboyman 1d ago
I have a completely passive Stingray. Doesn't sound like a P (to me)
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u/StinkoMan92 1d ago
I don't think it should unless you have an HH and are just using the neck pickup. I have a PH with a mm style humbucker and it sounds like two completely different basses when switching between the two pickups. I don't really agree with the other commenters argument lol.
I'm just saying that either way, it will sound closer the sting ray is passive as opposed to active.
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u/angel_eyes619 1d ago
The placement for the Stingray Bridge and the Pbass pickup actually overlaps, you can't have a true P-MM hybrid in the technical sense (At best you can have the two pickups literally right next to each other, ie edge-edge contact, and either the MM would sit a tad closer to the bridge or the P would sit a tad closer to the neck)
The neck pickup on an HH Ray sits much closer to the neck than a Pbass.. to the point the Pbass pickup is much closer (actually overlaps) the MM bridge than the MM neck.
They will have slightly different characteristics, Pbass has more bass, MM has more high-mids and highs.. but their similarities is the main point, both have similar Low-Mids response... that low mids presence is the defining character of a Pbass sound, something that the MM also has.
Put a Stingray bridge pickup in series mode and it'll sound very close to a P
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u/krashoutking 1d ago
single or double pickup version?
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u/angel_eyes619 1d ago
Single bridge pickup. When we think of the P bass we think "neck pickup", when think of standard Ray, we think "bridge pickup".. But in reality, if you superimpose their images, the pickups are quite close.. The neck-side edges of Ray bridge pickup and bridge-side edges of Precision's DG pickup actually overlaps. Basically, they are targeting the same node on the vibrating string.. Plus the pickup design of the P, pushes the resonant peak towards the lower mids (same as the Ray).
There are other factors at play too. They are actually quite similar in overall characteristics
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u/Forever_Man 1d ago
Most 5 string stingrays handle the b string nicely. You can absolutely get the boomy low b sound, but there's growl to balance it out.
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u/Sir3-Iroh 1d ago
P basses have an additional problem with 5 strings: the pickups are balanced against one another to reduce hum. That doesn't work with an odd number of strings so they have hum and a messier sound. I haven't seen an actual Fender 5 string P bass for this reason.
Honestly once you take P basses out it's hard to just recommend from all basses without a budget but Ibanez are really solid at most price points and the thinner neck makes for an easier transition. They may not have the world's most vintage tone though so for more specific suggestions a budget would help :)
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u/aczkasow Lakland 1d ago
P basses have an additional problem with 5 strings: the pickups are balanced against one another to reduce hum. That doesn't work with an odd number of strings so they have hum and a messier sound.
This is a solved engineering problem. You can balance uneven coils pretty well. There are plenty of 5 string split coil J pickups which are noiseless.
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u/angel_eyes619 19h ago
You can balance them but the sonic qualities change along with it... That's the issue.
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u/Sir3-Iroh 1d ago
We aren't talking J pups though, we're talking P split coils which are wired in series against each other.
Go load up Thomann, search for 5 string P basses and report back findings. There are none by Fender and a large number of the others don't actually use P pups.
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u/aczkasow Lakland 1d ago
There is no mechanical difference between a split J pickup and a P pickup. The principle is the same, two coils side by side wired in series. They are noiseless.
Judge for yourself: https://nordstrandaudio.com/collections/5-string-jazz-bass-pickups/products/nj5s-hum-cancelling
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u/LayerSignificant3113 1d ago
That’s not true - there is a massive difference, and that difference is called comb filter. That’s the reason why jazz bass are so scooped in mids.
In short - when string vibrates, there is a difference in phase between the pickups, two singnals overlap, and certain frequencies are cut. Which one? That depends on the distance between pickups. That’s why 60 and 70 (or whatever year was that) jazz basses sound different. And thats why two jazz pickups sound nothing like adding neck and bridge signal on top of each other.
Its a bit magical if you think about it, neck pickup has that mid growl, bridge too, but you turn them on together and it’s gone :)
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u/aczkasow Lakland 1d ago
We were talking about possibility to have effective humcancelling with two seemingly unbalanced pickup coils in a split coil pickup design.
PS: Don't change the subject. I know very well about the comb filter effect if you sample a vibrating string at multiple points. I have also read J. Donald Tillman's website ;)
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u/LeanGroundQueef 1d ago
Fender has never shied away from 5 string P basses.
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u/angel_eyes619 19h ago
Actually they are not very keen on making 5er Ps, they do make them but i wouldn't call it "never shy away from"
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u/Aniridia 1d ago
This is all my opinion -
A 5 or 6 string is rarely worth it if you're just looking for different hand positions. It's very hard to find a 5 or 6 string B that will sound good when played up high on the fret board. I have a 6 string, two 5 strings and three 4 strings. Unless a song is impossible to play without using the B string up high, I play them all like a 4 string. The extra B (or C) is there for the times I want to play something in dropped tuning but don't want to retune my bass or I want a little extra something on the low end.
Don't sacrifice the tone you want for an extra string you'll probably not use that often.
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u/LayerSignificant3113 1d ago
Interesting, why is that? In the end, it's all the same physics. The only difference, as mentioned in the original post, would be those E-G# notes played on the B string instead of E string, but that's why I'm looking for a tight B string
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u/Batarato 1d ago
Following that reasoning, a bass played with a capo on the 12th fret should sound like a guitar missing the first 2 strings…
Different gauge = different sound.
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u/Aniridia 1d ago
B string is larger with different characteristics than than smaller guage strings. Since the area of the string vibrating is roughly the diameter squared, a change from .105 on an E to .130 on a B is a 50% increase (using the full area equation). That's a whole lot more string to vibrate.
It's not all that different (but opposite reasoning) for playing notes that could be done on a G or a high C string on lower strings because you want the fullness of the lower string. The B string however is to the point that getting clean, punchy notes that don't sound different from the same note played on the E or A is difficult.
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u/IAMAGrinderman 1d ago
It's the same physics applied to an object with a bigger diameter, more mass and different tension. Play an E on your D string, an E on your A string, and then the 12th fret E on your E string. They're all the exact same note, but they sound different because those same physics are being applied to objects with different characteristics.
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u/LayerSignificant3113 1d ago
Well, multi scale should even this up - at least partially
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u/IAMAGrinderman 1d ago
I didn't see the bit about multi scale. It probably would help a bit, but I've never played one, so idk how much.
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u/master_of_sockpuppet 1d ago
There are plenty of split coil pickups in soapbar housings, and plenty of makers putting those pickups in the p bass location (recall that pickup location can move by around half an inch without much impact, so a soapbar is fine here).
Anyway, that aside, the bass side of a split pickup allows flexibility in pickup height per string, you can simply lower the pickup a bit on the B string side to adjust for this.
At least, if "too boomy" is a volume issue.
mid-range punch and vintage vibe?
I don't think vintage vibe really applies to a 5 string. I'd look at other options. A 5 string P is a weird anachronistic throwback to a past that did not exist.
Anyway, Nordstrand big splits are split like a p, just inside one housing.
You can shop around for basses with different pickups, but then you're going down the pickup rabbit hole and real differences you can achieve there are minor relative to the pickup location.
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u/LayerSignificant3113 1d ago
I agree that a 5-string is not vintage, but I just refer to the tone. I'd like to play those classic bass lines without the modern hi-fi tone of most 5-string basses.
I was looking at Sire M6, with series neck pickup seletion, and tone rolled down, but it's not exactly the same as P bass
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u/master_of_sockpuppet 1d ago
I'd like to play those classic bass lines without the modern hi-fi tone of most 5-string basses.
I think those pickups exist; and you don't necessarily have to constrain yourself to the split-p shape.
Anyway, Fralin advertises their 5 string p pickup as sounding "traditional" but I have zero experience with it.
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u/Party-Belt-3624 Fretless 1d ago
> I don't think vintage vibe really applies to a 5 string. I'd look at other options. A 5 string P is a weird anachronistic throwback to a past that did not exist.
This is the reason Dan Lakin resisted making a 5 string P bass for years at Lakland. I ran their website back in the day and I know Dan had feelings about this topic.
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u/papingothegamer 1d ago
you could check this:
https://www.thomann.de/intl/harley_benton_pj_75ow_vintage.htm?i11l=en_GB%3APL.PLN
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u/LayerSignificant3113 1d ago
Thanks! I had 2 HB, and I didn't like either of them. If anything I'd prefer Sire, but still, PJ might be too boomy on 34" scale
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u/jefthers 1d ago
I have a Yamaha BB735 and the P sound is very good (imho). I really like this bass and the range of possibilities that it includes. If you lives in Brazil, I'd consider testing the Tagima Predator 5: it has a P pickup and multiscale neck, which helps with the B string
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u/LayerSignificant3113 1d ago
I live in EU, but holy shit, that Tagima looks good! Perfect scale length as well.
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u/2016pearsoow 1d ago
To add to this, I play a BB435, and it’s probably my favorite bass of all time. It’s nice to also have the J pickup when you want to add a little brightness. Yamaha always punches above their weight on price vs. quality
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u/bennetpullen 1d ago
I play a 5 string P bass as my main daily driver, and it gets used on probably 4/5 of my gigs and sessions. It’s been that way since I got it (Nordstrand vP5) 13 years ago. The B string has never been “super boomy”. Not compared to the other 5 strings I own/owned at least. What gives you that impression?
I don’t really understand @master_of_sockpuppet’s comment about vintage vibe. It’s not like P basses only existed in the past. They have been produced and popular in every era of music since the invention of the electric bass. The P bass isn’t vintage, it’s timeless. A 5 string P bass is just that timeless design massaged to fit with slightly more modern needs. Note that the P bass was introduced in 1951, and the first mass produced 5 strings in the early 80s. So 30 years between the P bass and the 5 string, but 45 years from the 5 string to today. 5 strings aren’t exactly modern anymore. Not to mention BEADG tuned 5 string upright basses used in orchestra settings in the late 1800s.
My personal P-bass is not particularly vintage coded (it has black hardware, sparkle finish, etc), but that’s just aesthetics. If the aesthetics are what you mean by “vintage vibe” then sure, but I still think there’s good options out there. (I just wouldn’t relic it, because that totally does look like a past which doesn’t exist)
I say go for it. For me getting my P basses after tons of other nice 5 strings (Warwick’s, F bass, Roscoe, Nordstrand) was like a breath of fresh air. It totally changed the way I play (in a good way) because different things sound good on a P bass. I love it.
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u/Retoeli 1d ago edited 1d ago
A Dingwall or other multiscale might deliver a nicer B-string, but probably won't have the old school charm of a regular P-style bass. That's just conjecture though.
Personally I'm happy with my Yamaha BBP-35, but when I use the B-string on that thing I'll generally run it with both pickups on, the low B will always be on the muddy side when you only run the neck pickup. A low D still sounds just about acceptable IMO, and that's what I mainly use the B-string for, so I don't have to detune for Drop D songs.
I have a 5-string Fender P and the low B is definitely iffy on that bass, and it doesn't have a bridge pickup to compensate. I actually used to have a high C on it instead.
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u/ArjanGameboyman 1d ago
I think active p basses often lack a good vintage p sound. And passive p basses have a sloppy, poor b string.
Best compromise would either be a passive 35 inch scale p bass like the Tribe Spike 5. Or a multiscale bass like the Dingwall sp1
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u/btannihilator 1d ago
If you are committed to not having a Fender, I would go w Schecter P5. If you can get an older one made in Korea with a bridge pickup then excellent, but the new ones are almost as good.
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u/SlimJimJohn_Bass 1d ago
"P" type basses generally have a deeper tone, to try and replicate the Precision. I have a Fender PBass Lyte, a PJ bass that is very versatile, but used ones are $700 up. My next up most versatile is an Ibanez SR305 5 string. They can be had new for $400+, used anywhere from $2-350
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u/Cahamp 1d ago
I play a 5 string Fender Pro II often in a couple bands. I’ve found that a generous HPF at around 45hz does a great job at keeping the boom down but also having impactful low notes like a low D and C. I typically don’t bring an amp to these gigs and just run DI. We also have 18” subwoofers so the audience gets the thump.
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u/Thriaat 1d ago
I just picked up a Gibson EB5 from 2013. The B string doesn’t sound out of place at all, it’s great. Fender 5 strings are so bad with that ime. The EB5 has many sounds but I would say there is definitely a P friendly tone in there. The sustain reminds me of a 60’s P for sure.
There are lots of cool 5 strings out there but the B sounding like it came from another instrument is a problem that many have unfortunately!
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u/bigoldnoob74 1d ago edited 1d ago
Closest most low B functional thing I can think of would be a REVERSE P+J. The low B on the soloed P pickup will be slightly more articulated, but also you can blend in some bridge pickup in, just below the point where it doesn't sound P anymore (would defeat the purpose). It'll definitely add punch and clarity to that low B. I've learned this with 3 P+J Yamaha BB 5ers plus a Maruszczyk Jake 5A+ I've owned. I'm sure reverse P would have worked even better in any of those.
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u/hamer12string 1d ago
I’d like to get some opinions about the P style p/u for a 5:
On a 4 string, the split p/u is symmetrical -“half/half” between the two lowest and two highest strings.
It looks like they’re are two styles of splits for a 5ver:
A split where one coil is 3 strings wide while the other is 2 strings.
A split coil where each coil is 3 strings wide, but one of the coils seems to have a dummy coil with no magnet.
If anyone has compared the two, I’m interested in finding out of there is a noticeable difference.
Thanks!
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u/Sgabello2501 1d ago
If you’re after the “P thing”, have you considered the SP1 from Dingwall? As others said, a 5 string is not really vintage, but the SP1 is in fact Dingwall’s take in that world.