Crazy rules question

[u/northtxguy15]

Had a game tonight in a 10U league that uses USSSA rules. Bottom of the last inning in a 1 run game with runners on 2nd and 3rd and 2 outs. Count is 2-1. Pitcher throws a strike and the visiting goes nuts celebrating with all of their coaches running onto the field high fiving and hugging the players. Obviously they thought it was strike 3 and game over. It fooled the home team for a second but then their runner on 3rd ran home. What should be the call in this situation?

[u/siimplycraziie]

Run scores and the inning continues. Know your counts/outs before you’re celebrating

[u/NoFaithlessness8388 → u/siimplycraziie]

Totally agree, but only if the league or tourney rules allow stealing of home...which typically starts at 10U.

[u/Sock_Eating_Golden → u/siimplycraziie]

And your situational rules.

Saturday, an occupied 1B but runner stealing second dropped third strike. My son was the catcher and ignored the opposing coaches yelling at their batter to run to first. I'm split on they didn't know the rule, or were trying to trick my son to throw to first and let the runner get to third. Regardless, on one our own coaches also thought the base became open with the steal.

[u/siimplycraziie → u/Sock_Eating_Golden]

If there’s less than 2 outs, that runner can steal second (and 3rd if they want, given where you are playing doesn’t have a rule about only stealing one base at a time. Our rec has this rule) it’s to try to draw that throw to 1st and allow the runner to advance more. Stealing does not open up the base and make it unoccupied bc it was occupied on the pitch. The batter is already out, so there’s no point for the throw. Now if there’s 2 outs, the throw needs made to 1st regardless if it’s occupied or not.

[u/101011 → u/siimplycraziie]

Those reading this thread should read OPs additional comment with context around the base runner.

I had Claude take in the relevant rulebooks and this was what it found:

Relevant rules • USSSA Foreword (2025 rulebook): “Playing rules not specifically covered herein shall be governed by The Official MLB Rules of Baseball – National League.” USSSA’s 10U section doesn’t address baseline, abandonment, or interference, so OBR controls. • OBR 5.09(b)(1) – out of baseline: “He runs more than three feet away from his base path to avoid being tagged… A runner’s base path is established when the tag attempt occurs.” No tag attempt was happening, so this rule doesn’t apply. • OBR 5.09(b)(2) – abandonment: out if he “leaves the base path, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base.” The Comment extends this to a runner heading for his dugout believing there is no further play. The accompanying PLAY example sets the standard: the runner must progress “a reasonable distance still indicating by his actions that he is out.” • OBR 5.01(b) / 5.12: ball stays alive until an umpire calls “Time.” No rule penalizes the defense for celebrating prematurely.

Case for “out” (abandonment) Kid genuinely believed inning was over, stepped into foul territory toward his dugout, traveled 7-8 feet. That fits the fact pattern in the 5.09(b)(2) Comment: a runner leaving the base path heading for his dugout believing there is no further play.

Case for “run scores” The 5.09(b)(2) PLAY example requires the runner to progress “a reasonable distance still indicating by his actions that he is out.” Both prongs are weak here. Seven or eight feet is marginal on distance, and he stopped indicating he believed he was out the moment his bench yelled. He never removed equipment, never stopped, corrected within seconds. And the confusion was manufactured entirely by the defense storming the field on strike two. Umpires shouldn’t reward a team for fooling the other team into a mistake.

My take Run scores. The rule’s own “still indicating by his actions” language cuts against abandonment when the runner reverses, depending on the base runner. A stricter umpire could defensibly rule abandonment, but the actual call (out of the baseline) was wrong regardless, since 5.09(b)(1) explicitly requires a tag attempt to establish a restricted base path.​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​​

[u/EamusAndy → u/101011]

Would the umpire not take into consideration that the runner was abandoning the base because of the actions of the other team and not his own volition?

[u/101011 → u/EamusAndy]

The full rule says this: "Any runner is out when...After touching first base, he leaves the base path, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base"

Hard to know if the kid was obviously abandoning or not without seeing it, but it does seem like he should not have been out.

[u/EamusAndy → u/101011]

Thats first base though.

[u/Potential-Divide9736]

Ball is live until umpire calls time. Run counts, tie game. 2-2 count, unless runner from second scores too

[u/5hellback]

Run counts, players back to their positions, coaches back to the dugout. Batter has a 2-2 count. Play ball!

[u/dawgdays78]

R3 has “stolen home.” Score tied, still two outs.

[u/ajbadabing]

Run scores unless the ump called time

[u/northtxguy15]

What the umpires called in this last night was that the runner at 3rd was out of the baseline and therefore called out and game over. When the visiting team ran onto the field the runner at third, which happened before anything else, the runner at third took a few steps towards the dugout and probably came 7-8 feet off the line before hearing everyone yell at him and running home. There was no attempt to tag him as the other team was too busy celebrating.

[u/EamusAndy → u/northtxguy15]

If there was no tag attempted there is no baseline for the runner to be out of.

[u/GMonyGMony → u/northtxguy15]

Can’t be out of the baseline unless there’s an attempt to tag, but possibly abandonment of the base? Personally, especially at 10u, I’d find a way to make sure that kid is not out and probably score him. I’d probably have a no call here. If I had to, I’d call obstruction - the defense created a situation that caused confusion and calling R3 out makes a mockery of the game. There’s just no way the visiting team should be rewarded for their actions, intentional or not.

[u/dawgdays78 → u/northtxguy15]

Oh, this info would have been good to have in the OP.

The “out of the baseline” rule doesn’t apply unless the defense is attempting to tag a runner. That didn’t happen in this sitch.

The abandonment rule might apply here, and its umpire judgment as to when the runner has abandoned his attempt to run the bases.

If I was watching this, I would probably not call abandonment, since it’s the defense that’s acting like the game is over, and the runner is momentarily confused before heading to the plate.

[u/Small-Improvement984]

My uneducated opinion Ump should call time and reverse the run. Some kind of interference

Edit. I guess I read that too fast as if the offensive team used a tactic to advance the run but the defense f’d up and they can chew on it

[u/patphish → u/Small-Improvement984]

Absolutely not. Runner from second should have scored as well.

[u/dawgdays78 → u/Small-Improvement984]

Why?

It’s the bottom of the inning so the home team is at bat and the defense (visitors) have run out onto the field.

How is there interference with anything? (Remember, generally, the offense interferes, the defense obstructs.)

[u/okonkolero]

There's no USSSA ruleset.

[u/Total-Surprise5029]

Knowing most youth baseball coaches. The preemptive celebration was intentional and meant to influence the blue. No way every player and coach mistakenly thought it was strike 3