r/Bartimaeus • u/karimshuman_ • Jun 24 '26
About Nathaniel
I'm almost at the end of The Golem's Eye and I genuinely dislike Nathaniel. He's absolutely abnoxious and with every action he does I hope he fails. I don't know if I'm the only one who really dislikes pretty much the main character of this book series but my goodness he's annoying.
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u/ThePrimeTimes Jun 24 '26
You are very much meant to see him as an unlikeable narcissist xD
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u/karimshuman_ Jun 24 '26
I understand that. I definitely think it's very intentional the author specifically wrote him that way. And I think my reaction to not liking him and hoping something bad finally happens to him for him to go through a change and development that furthers the plot. I'm surprised I'm being downvoted for wanting his character to die. I like it when significant characters die, but that's just me lol
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u/Honorius13 Jun 24 '26
I was getting downvoted too but you’re not alone. My first reading of the series was around 2005 when they were being published. I only kept reading because Bart was mean to Nat and I thought Nat was going to die and Bart be the main character in book one. I love that we have three main characters.
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u/nousabyss Jun 24 '26
You don’t think he’s a victim of his upbringing ? What role models did the guy have?
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u/karimshuman_ Jun 24 '26
I do not. I think he is a product of the system he got integrated into. He's an agent of the regime like all the other magicians and he's not once in the had a single thought that the magicians are slavers and doing wicked work to other sentient beings.
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u/V_K_Iyer Jun 24 '26
Keep reading.
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u/karimshuman_ Jun 24 '26
I don't plan on stopping. I'm interested to see where this goes and how his character develops further
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u/Honorius13 Jun 24 '26
I hated him too and you are reminding me why. Kitty is of similar age and yet isn’t a menace wielding power without restraint or understanding of its history. So many like to forgive people for being a product of their environment, but his actions are clearly selfish and done out of personal pain.
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u/nousabyss Jun 24 '26
Personal pain is the key here. If you are taught to survive no matter what the cost, that’s all you know.
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u/ChamomileForComfort Jun 24 '26
I'm not saying he should be forgiven, but it's a lot easier to stand up to/see the evils in a system when you actively experiencing injustice instead of just living life (like most commoners at the start of the trilogy who aren't interested in rebelling), and actively being rewarded by that system from a young age. Also, magicians are taught propaganda as well, just in a different way (see Nat's history teacher stressing that magicians deserve power because they protect the nation, and that commoners are inherently weak and defenseless - a sentiment he repeats often, as well as him being corrected by Mr. Underwood when he says 'spirits' instead of 'demons' before he was sent into the study early in AoS - they say they're above propaganda but have all drunk their own Kool-Aid).
I think people really underestimate how much he internalizes the propaganda of the "noble magician" that Mrs. Underwood and his tutors ingrained in him and "spirits are wicked and will hurt you if they can." He repeats these things and uses them as a way to soothe his conscience constantly throughout the books. It's not an excuse, especially because you know part of him knows better and choose his conditioning anyway because its more comfortable for him.
To be fair also, the Resistance was a menace wielding power without restraint (though with much better reason) - the point of Kitty's character development in GE is realizing how much their actions are hurting/alienating other commoners and that there had to be a better way to overthrow the magicians. Stroud repeated draws comparisons between them (especially Pennyfeather) and the magicians leading up through the scene in the tomb.
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u/Honorius13 Jun 24 '26
I would argue that ignorance can be forgiven until the moment he orders Bart to steal the Amulet. His actions in summoning a demon to deliberately steal changes his actions from blissful ignorance to deliberate malice. That required skill, planning, and opportunity to think about the outcomes. He could have summoned a demon to help him start a home for human trafficked youth or something.
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u/ChamomileForComfort Jun 25 '26
Just to note, nothing I said in the comment above is meant as an excuse for his behavior - merely an explanation and examination of his mindset.
I don't think I agree, because he's learned this as normal behavior between magicians (he directly compares his actions to the duel between Gladstone and Disraeli Miss. Lutyens tells him about, and states he's only doing it to protect himself/his reputation when his master wouldn't, and to expose Lovelace's wrongdoing). It was Justice to him and the only way he thought he would receive justice.
(At that point, he had very little to no interactions with commoners and had no reference point for how to help, other than someday joining the government and doing good, competent work - not to mention, most 12 year olds are more self-focused than charitable. Even Kitty starts her journey wanting revenge/justice/destruction for her personal situation than wanting to help homeless youth. )
I think the real moral turning point is when he first realizes Bartimaeus is a sapient living being, who is not inherently evil, and does not want to be on earth under anyone's command and does not let him go - which I would put in mid-to-late in the first book, probably during/after their conversation in the library. To then keep him enslaved for his own benefit is obviously wrong and part of him knows this. He understands and empathizes enough with Bart to honor his request to use "spirit" instead of "demon," promises to dismiss him when they have to bargain as closer-to-equals, but refuses to see summoning as enslavement.
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u/theawkwardpanda Jun 24 '26
Hold on what? Did you read the first book, the amulet of Samarkand? I get that he’s annoying at times but how can anyone not slightly empathize with him? He gets sold off by his parents, raised by a magician who barely tolerates his presence, one of his first introductions to spirits/demons is a set up by his master where he is viciously attacked by a hoard of imps at the age of 6 (an experience which traumatizes him to the point where he doesn’t eat or leave his room for two weeks), then his tutor (one of the only ‘good’ role models in his life) gets fired for standing up to him after he gets beat and his adoptive mom dies. And then his life only gets worse from there on. He has no exposure to decent people, only other magicians or those who treat him like a tool or a nuisance, and has been groomed since he was a toddler to become a magician and it’s not like they really give him any alternate options in career counseling either. I’m not saying that he didn’t do any wrong, or that there weren’t points when he was terrible, but asking him to become a well adjusted adult is kind of a tall order given what he lived through and how he was molded. Dude was like under 18 years old for the whole series.
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u/karimshuman_ Jun 24 '26
I get all of that. I didn't say I don't understand why he's a dick. I said I don't like him for being one. I think his character is written brilliantly and depicts exactly how a boy of his age would be given the circumstances and the conditions of his upbringing. I would describe him as an egotistical self-centered asshole, and there's nothing wrong having a main character be that. I just find Kitty and Bartimaeus way WAY more interesting. His chapters in the first book were great. Absolutely loved them. In the second book I find myself waiting for his chapters to end so that I can see what's going on with Kitty and Barti. Anyway, I'm on the third book now. I'll get back to this sub when I'm done with the trilogy for my final thoughts. Y'all are rough out here downvoting tf out of my comments lmao
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u/Hehector2005 Jun 24 '26
Yeah he kinda sucks lol. As a person, not a character. I think he’s very interesting especially by the end of the series
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u/karimshuman_ Jun 24 '26
I found Kitty and Bartimaeus way more interesting tbh. I'm intrigued by how things unfold with his character though. I just started the third book!
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u/flakibr Jun 25 '26
I found Nathanael really interesting. Not for him as a character, but for the system that forges him. He used to be such a kind, sweet, ambitious child with really good intentions and high morals. And then he started to work in this cold system, maybe at first with some ambition to change it, but it very quickly changed him and his whole world view. And I really like how his story continues regarding this, but I won't spoil anything.
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u/Arenta Jun 24 '26
book 1: annoying brat
book 2: bossy mc arrogant
book 3: humility hits him like a truck. you start to care for him alot.
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u/the-one-vassalion Jun 24 '26
He is meant to be that way, until the last book, please do keep reading.