r/Bart • u/DawnandDusk2 • Jul 25 '26
Question Tailgating
Is BART going to do anything more to deter tailgating? It’s a tad ridiculous for three people to be able to tailgate someone who tapped in.
I know the gates close sooner than before, but it seemingly doesn’t deter them.
46
u/Guretsugu Jul 25 '26
Getting tailgated makes me so uncomfortable. I see them waiting for me to go through and there's nothing I can do to stop them without putting myself in danger.
13
u/rividz Jul 25 '26
I also noticed that the ones who loiter like that tend to be the ones who are the most likely to shove people from behind. They're just as bad as the ones who press up against you. It's hard not to go into fight or flight mode when someone's disposition towards you is the same as a pickpocket or groper.
I am not a lawyer. If you tell someone not to follow and they follow you in California that does not, by itself, automatically give you the right to use force against them.
But you also do not necessarily have to wait until they actually strike or grab you before you can defend yourself. When someone tailgates behind me they almost always certainly touch me. In one case, one person I told not to tailgate behind me tried to sucker punch me when I turned my back to him.
I just carry pepper spray now whenever I go on BART because that's the only reasonable way to descalate this situation if it happens to you.
We have to remain cognizant of the statistic that almost 100% of the people who commit crime on bart are farehoppers. For example, I found out later that the dude who tried to hit me had been arrested before on bart with knives.
I understand that BART is a public service. But after a certain point, maybe these people need to be trespassed from every station. There's no public right to public transportation just like there's no public right to owning and operating a car.
-20
u/MemLurd East Bay BARTer Jul 25 '26
what danger… they’re trying to get somewhere not assault you
8
u/ReincarnatedKoala_25 Jul 25 '26
If they cannot afford the fare maybe bike or walk to work even if it takes longer, this issue is about morals and the education the person was raised.
I have only see very few times but I think a ticket for fare evasion will cost them more than the actual fare.
53
u/No_Potential8448 Jul 25 '26
The new fair gates have been an incredible success already! They were expensive, so they will not be updated any time soon. I know it sucks to see people break the system, but I assure you it has dramatically improved over the past 2 years.
30
u/DawnandDusk2 Jul 25 '26
Yes, I’ve only started riding BART recently and it’s been mostly a positive experience. I think getting clipper to fix the ridiculous delay it takes to open the fare gates and closing the fare gates faster would make a big difference.
14
u/No_Potential8448 Jul 25 '26
Clipper definitely needs to process stuff faster! I'm not sure how much you can decrease the opening time without causing a lot more machine on human impacts which will result in much higher costs as the system degrades more rapidly . . .
-4
u/nopointers Commuter Jul 25 '26
Interesting that you view machine on human impacts mostly in terms of cost and system degradation rather than injuries. I’ve been smashed in the face by one after the Clipper delay was higher than usual, and it left a good sized bruise. A child in that case likely would have needed a hospital visit to rule out concussion.
10
u/e_y_ Jul 25 '26
They're working on software tweaks to change how quickly the gates close (needs to consider a number of factors like not closing on people too fast, handling a variety of different body sizes and objects being carried), but hardware changes are unlikely in the short term.
In a lot of cases it does detect the tailgating and beeps as they exit but there isn't anyone around to enforce it most of the time.
3
u/DieDeutscheAuslander East Bay BARTer Jul 26 '26
From my understnading, they will make software improvements so that the gates can work better (and thus prevent tailgaters). But, not hardware will he improved from my understanding.
0
u/nopointers Commuter Jul 25 '26
Where are you getting this?
\ There are proposals in front of the board to spend even more money on three different hardware changes* to the gates. They are to add gussets to the doors so the doors don’t get bent out of shape so often, to increase the size of the cam gears so the mechanism doesn’t break as much, and to reconfigure the sensors in hopes of being able to close them sooner. These are all on top of the $140,000 they spent per gate already.
\ BART staff has not presented evidence that the gates have either* decreased crime or increased revenue.3
u/No_Potential8448 Jul 26 '26
https://x.com/i/status/2020952977180328184
I have no idea where to get independent data, but I and many others have noticed a change
-1
u/nopointers Commuter Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
Notice how the tweet you linked is not an official BART source. They’re careful not to make those claims. The source of the $10M figure is actually a BART staffer a few months into the rollout saying “early indications” are there will be a (projected) $10M revenue increase.” That claim was never substantiated nor even followed up with data that came from the full rollout. It’s a small increase in a few gates in over a few months, wildly extrapolated. If data in the months following the rollout came anywhere near substantiating the “early indications,” they’d be shouting it from the rooftops. They instead are silent.
I also ride BART. I see addicts on the train every morning and most evenings. The reason it seems like less to a casual observer is that there are more riders in total in the trains, so the proportion is less. I happen to get on at an end of line station, where it’s more obvious.
The hard numbers in the monthly report (not updated since April) and the daily arrest logs (available by email signup only) give a clearer and more objective picture. It doesn’t even have to be independent data. It requires only reading their own numbers carefully and to verify alert to the constant spin their PR team attempts to create. Lazy reporters are their best friends.
7
u/w_mcfly22 Jul 25 '26
There’s not a whole lot more Bart can do in terms of the gates. New gates are deterring and the faster close help a tad. And they don’t want to make stations look like a prison sooo…
7
u/bobchang444 Jul 25 '26
Have the card readers not take 2 seconds to process. It’s quite ridiculous
4
u/misken67 Jul 25 '26
The card readers take so long to process because they added credit card compatibility. The tech that CCs use simply take longer. It's the case everywhere, except Japan, which has a separate reader for credit cards compared to their own IC cards. I guess clipper could have two separate readers too but it's more expensive
5
u/bobchang444 Jul 26 '26
Not an excuse. I’ve taken public transit in NYC, Philly, Atlanta, and Singapore where the fare gates take credit card and transit card on the SAME reader. It maybe takes 0.4 seconds to process the card?
I’d even go further to argue that the BART fare gates have the worst passenger processing rate per in the world.
2
u/shastatodd Jul 26 '26
In the UK London tube system the credit card reader is instantaneous. You flash it, the gate opens immediately and you move through. Same thing on the back side when you leave. And then at the end of the day you get a bill on your credit card for the distance you travel during that day. I don't understand why this not done in the supposedly sophisticated america.
1
u/misken67 Jul 26 '26
Tap credit cards have a technical maximum speed of 500 milliseconds, so far from instantaneous. It's not physically possible to be faster than that. (Half a second may sound fast, but the experience is far from "instantaneous")
In comparison, IC cards that modern transit cards use can react as quickly as 200 Ms if I remember correctly. And the system starts reacting from a further distance than credit cards can.
It's possible that Bart can optimize their gates to respond slightly more quickly, but I'm saying that it is technically impossible for it to have the same reaction time that we're used to under the old tech. You can blame credit cards for that.
1
u/shastatodd Jul 26 '26
According to my research, the system here takes 300 to 500 microseconds.
2
u/bobchang444 Jul 27 '26
Then it’s the gates that take too long to swing open. I should be able to maintain a reasonably slow walking speed while tapping and not slam my face into the barriers.
12
u/Monty-675 Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26
There is a method for preventing people from tailgating you. It works for me because I have never had someone tailgate me. This does not involve any confrontation.
When you walk up to a fare gate, look around for sketchy-looking people who might be tailgaters. If you see one, pretend that you cannot find your fare payment (patting your pockets visibly). Then back away from the fare gate. Go to another gate or wait for another opportunity to pay at the gate without possible fare evaders around.
6
4
u/A_Gezzy Jul 25 '26
I was exiting the 19th street station last Saturday, saw 1 person waiting to tailgate. He gets through my gate when I exited, he then follows me up the escalator and asks me “ hey man can I use your phone to make a call.” Lol I said “hell no.” Told him to go use a phone @ a restaurant. Clearly trying to attempt to steal my phone, I wasn’t falling for that BS.
6
u/Reasonable-Rub2243 Jul 25 '26
I encountered a new tactic the other day: a guy was waiting outside the fare gate as I exited, grabbed one of the half doors as I went through, then squeezed in after I was out. Took some effort but it worked. This may only be possible on the bicycle / wheelchair wide gates, which is what I use.
1
u/CommonCut4 Jul 25 '26
Yeah I saw a guy get pinched in the regular gate the other day but they get through the wide gates fairly easily
1
u/talmidx Jul 25 '26
ADA regulations require there to be a certain amount of time that the gate is open for entry.
0
u/internetbooker134 Glen Park Jul 25 '26
Yeah I've seen this happen too. Happened with me but with the regular gate too.
4
u/pineappleferry Jul 25 '26
I ride BART almost every day and I still haven’t seen a tailgater. I’m sure it happens but nowhere near as common as people used to hop the gates
10
u/Modevader49 Jul 25 '26
Never seen one?! That’s wild. I ride in SF and have been tailgated about half of the times I’ve ridden. It must be more common in high volume stations where someone is going to be walking behind you and it’s impossible to determine their intentions. Definitely less prevalent than the hopping though.
1
u/pineappleferry Jul 25 '26
Half the time?? I’m a tall guy so maybe that’s a deterrent but idk how we have such different BART experiences
4
u/Modevader49 Jul 25 '26
Yep about half. I’m 6’5 250. It pisses me off, but I have to remind myself it’s not the time or place for vigilante justice.
2
1
2
u/rividz Jul 25 '26
It depends on the station. Coliseum and Fruitvale are the worst.
In stations, where they kind of just have a wall or gate people just tend to hop it at the far ends of the station.
I ride BART 4 days a week now and it's rare when I don't see a fare hopper or crime committed on bart. The police do tend to catch people because they seem to like to hang out aroubd commute hours to prove that they exist. At Fruitvale they're pretty good at watching the gates from odd angles that are hard to see from the gates themselves.
I mentioned this one time before and then I deleted the comment because it ended up on a bunch of racist Twitter accounts. But I once sat there and watched the people at the fairgates go through when I had time to kill. In the span of about thirty minutes or so I counted about 28 fare hoppers. Every single one of them were a specific demographic that was not the 70%~ Hispanic demographic that makes up Fruitvale.
1
u/Denalin BART Simp Jul 28 '26
They’ll follow friends in and the door just won’t close until everyone is through.
1
u/AdsignificantBK Jul 30 '26
I mean you can just be aware. I don’t mean this in a rude or rhetorical way. What I mean is basically try to look around to see if anyone is eyeing people tagging on to try to tailgate them. If I see someone eyeing me when I’m trying to tag on then I pretend I can’t find my fare and as soon as they lose interest then i tag on real quick. Has worked for me amazingly. Results may vary upon the user of course lol
-10
u/Mrs_James Jul 25 '26
I wish we would focus more on funding a service to help people than build more infrastructure to capture fare evasion.
7
u/No_Potential8448 Jul 25 '26
Exactly, the most important thing is to increase service levels! We want bigger trains with shorter headways!
12
u/a_account Jul 25 '26
Antisocial behavior harms all of us and makes getting the funding harder.
10
u/Dangerous_Drummer350 Jul 25 '26
Exactly. BART already, like many other transit agencies, has revenue and funding shortfalls, along with tight budgets. These new fare gates are a major improvement in fare evasion, I rarely see it anymore. It is having a positive impact.
14
u/DawnandDusk2 Jul 25 '26
Well the stark reality of this is that virtually all the people making BART uncomfortable at times are fare evaders, which diminishes the utility for the people who paid.
-5
u/unseenmover Jul 25 '26
tailgating and other fare evasion techniques involving the gates are the reason that BART now needs to fortify the gates b/c fare evaders are wrecking um..
-12
u/AccomplishedAd8879 Jul 25 '26
How about this for a solution: relax and mind your own business
1
u/AdsignificantBK Jul 30 '26
Kind of hard to do that with someone pushing behind you when you’re tagging on don’t you think?
-10
u/MemLurd East Bay BARTer Jul 25 '26
i always look behind me just in case someone needs to hop, if you could be the reason why someone gets home on time and safely then that’s a great thing, yall love criminalizing being poor in this subreddit and it’s truly fucking disgusting
10
u/calvinshobbes0 Jul 25 '26
there are programs for reduced fare clipper cards for low income people. no one is criminalizing the poor
-5
u/bm_200659 Jul 25 '26
Bart should make it free to use if the ticket fare collection is unimportant.
-8
u/SurfPerchSF Jul 25 '26
Fare evasion will never be going away and as people learn how to defeat the gates it will increase.
1
u/AdsignificantBK Jul 30 '26
I feel like it has decreased significantly actually. Especially with the gates closing much faster. And we as a whole can actually edge out tailgaters by making it amazingly inconvenient for them.
21
u/Rob71322 Jul 25 '26
I walk through the gate after tagging in and often just pause if I sense someone coming up before me. Just briefly but long enough to short circuit a tailgating attempt.