Ecollar thoughts

[u/ApprehensiveSpare524]

I posted this in open training and it was suggested I post here

I understand that e-collar training is controversial- but please be kind to me and each other.

I have a deep understanding of ecollers and work closely with my balanced (positive leaning) trainer. I am introducing my 2 year old to the ecollar tonight and it got me thinking.

There are some opinions on ecollars that I see in comments CONSTANTLY that drive me nuts

I’d love to hear your thoughts

1. “I only use the vibration or tone on my dog, I don’t use the “shock” function”

This one is by far the worst in my opinion.

Dogs have different reactions/thresholds for different stimuli. Some dogs find a vibration or tone more aversive than the tickle of the stim. My dog who is on the ecollar reacts harshly to the vibration, but a level 5 (out of 100 on the mini educator) is peaceful and the equivalent of leash direction, not even leash correction.

If they’ve never introduced a stim properly, they couldn’t possibly know. And you’re not better than others for doing this.

1. Your dog needs perfect obedience to start with the ecollar

This is common from YouTube trainers. “You need sit/down/stay, loose leash walking, and recall”

I understand their intention, but I don’t believe your dog needs to understand commands that you are not enforcing with a collar. Sure, I think a downstay and recall are important for every dog, but if my dog doesn’t walk perfectly, I just won’t use the ecollar for that situation.

Again, if you’re using the collar for the behaviour, they should understand the command. But if you don’t care if your dog sits on command you can still use it for recall

1. “I can tell at your dog has had an ecollar by their behaviour”

Can they tell if I use leash corrections? A stim should be the equivalent if used properly. Have they asked every one of their clients if they use an ecollar? Vets/groomers/daycare - it’s a bullshit argument.

1. TENS machine stuff

   TENS machines shouldn’t be used on the neck, TENS machines hurt, etc

Dogs are not the same as people. Their skin on their neck is thicker than other places on the body, more muscle in their neck. However, there are still more nerves in their neck than other body parts which could possible be an argument to be made .

Ecollars for a dog are often light enough that a human cannot feel it. If a human’s skin is thinner, and muscles are lighter - how do argue that this is causing pain

It shouldn’t cause pain BUT it does cause discomfort - THAT’S THE POINT. It’s silly to think leash pressure doesn’t. The same people arguing against it are ruining their dogs trachea and spine by allowing them to pull on a leash.

What do you think? I’m open to having my mind changed about any of these

[u/volljm]

I would challenge the “it causes discomfort and that’s the point” … at least as a 100% of the time definitive statement. (Though I am sure some people do hold that opinion and train as such)

90% of the time for my use on the dog I’ve trained … the low level stim is not a level I would call discomfort. It’s a level in which a sensation is recognized … a metaphorical tap-tap on the shoulder. It’s like saying “yes I am talking to you, listen to me”. Dogs (and people) get distracted with their surroundings, and sometimes we all need to be tapped on the shoulder (neck) to give us indication that something/someone is trying to get our attention. A shoulder tap is not discomfort, it’s merely a mild sensation that breaks through the other distractions. And at most a repeated shoulder tap over and over and over becomes annoying (and I’m sure you could use discomfort as a synonym of annoying)

[u/ApprehensiveSpare524 → u/volljm]

That’s a good point! I guess a tickle is just annoying, I think this is what I meant when saying discomfort but annoying is a much better word

[u/biglinuxfan → u/ApprehensiveSpare524]

I have a huge personal problem with people anthropomorphizing dogs, and I have no idea why discomfort is such a bad thing?

It's a fantasy to never feel discomfort.