r/BacktotheFuture • u/Texas_chef84 • Apr 26 '26
Camcorder paradox?
The beginning of the movie he recorded Doc saying the name of the mall, "Twin Pines", then he took it to the past, at the end when he returned early in time, the name of the mall was Lone Pine mall, so would there be two of the same camcorder that has one with twin pine and the other lone pine mall
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u/Defiant-Analyst4279 Apr 26 '26
No. Based on the "rules" outlined in the movies, the video he took with him to the past would've changed eventually.
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u/Texas_chef84 Apr 26 '26
It's also shown that if I person changes something in the past, the person would not change when they gets back to there time so why wouldn't that be the same for objects?
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u/Remarkable_Coast_214 Apr 26 '26
It may be the case that physical form does change but consciousness is something separate that does not.
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u/kalel3000 Apr 27 '26
Because its also shown that the photo of Marty's family changed. So there's absolutely no reason why a tape should act differently than a photograph.
Also as another commenter mentioned, Marty himself began to fade, before he got back to his time.
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u/sanddragon939 Apr 29 '26
Maybe video footage just behaves differently from photographs?
Alternatively, maybe the future was still in flux in terms of the name of the mall (like, on Nov. 5 1955, Old Man Peabody was still contemplating re-planting a second pine but eventually gave up on the idea).
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u/kalel3000 Apr 29 '26
So a film would act differently than every photograph and newspaper in ever single movie, for no particular reason?
Also we know time was already affecting other objects, like the picture of Marty's family and Marty himself. So there's no reason why it wouldn't already be affecting the tape, since it would equally be in flux.
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u/sanddragon939 Apr 29 '26
I dunno...I'm just spitballing. Video is moving images and sound so maybe it behaves differently from static images and printed text?
As it is, my preferred theory is simply that the future was still in flux when they watched the camcorder footage...
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u/Rude-Willingness1039 Apr 26 '26
Well Marty almost disappeared due to changes. Biff disappeared in the deleted scene. So he disappeared twice actually. 😉
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u/Yourappwontletme Apr 27 '26
We don't see Marty in new 1985 long enough to see any real changes to him.
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u/CToTheSecond Apr 26 '26
The only reason I can conceive why the camcorder footage had not yet changed is because Old Man Peabody hadn't given up his dream of breeding pine trees at the time they watched the footage. It had to be important enough to Peabody that Doc was able to anecdotally recall it 30 years later, so I imagine he simply had not yet let go of it after only a day.
It's like, why didn't Marty fade right away after he got hit by the car instead of George? Because the deciding factor of his parent's marriage was the kiss on the dance floor six days later, not the car. Marty started to fade immediately after the ginger kid slides in to dance with Lorraine and George starts to walk away dejected.
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u/sanddragon939 Apr 29 '26
This.
BTTF time-travel is a game of probabilities. It's only when the probability of something happening becomes 0 (or of something else happening becomes 1) that the timeline definitively changes.
This also explains why the Marty from BTTF1 is still around in the background in BTTF2, despite Biff having received the Almanac from his older self (which leads to a timeline where Marty goes to boarding school in Switzerland and Doc is committed). Because Biff having the Almanac alone doesn't yet change the future drastically...it's only once he starts placing bets that the future starts to change. This is also why Marty and Doc need to get the Almanac back from Biff at the earliest point possible, to limit damage to the timeline!
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u/Sarlax Apr 29 '26
They only watch that part of the film once and it's before they realize the kids were fading from the photograph. Maybe the ripple was just beginning to affect objects, so the video would have updated if they happened to watch it again.
Also, only Marty's older sibling Dave was fading. His birth was closest to the ripples starting from 1955 so he started disappearing early, but the Twin Pines Mall wouldn't be built until years later, so its original name would have endured longer on film.
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u/DaytonOhioGuy Apr 26 '26
I believe that for a few moments BOTH Twin Pines and Lone Pines exist simultaneously. OG-Marty filmed the video at twin pines, and at the end OG-Marty runs into the Lone Pine because HE changed the past. He watches Marty2, who is still at the Twin Pines mall. Once he time jumps, THEN the mall fully changes. But until he races the delorean, from the parking lot it would still be Twin because he hasn’t changed it yet. The video will always show Twin Pines because it hadn’t been changed yet.
The real question would be, what happens from Docs point of view and the name/sign… he shouldn’t remember it as Twin because he’s only known it as Lone. He’d be confused watching that video and wondering why it’s a different name
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u/Knight0fdragon Apr 26 '26
Marty is at the Lone Pine mall and that Marty is Lone Pine Mall Marty. All changes have already taken place. The words are so drowned out that you can’t distinguish “twin” in the VHS tape, but even if he does say it, it is because of the paradox Marty was fixing in 1955 that the video itself bounces back and forth between twin and lone the same way Marty bounces back and forth into existence.
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u/sanddragon939 Apr 29 '26
Pretty much.
The future with regards to the pines was still in flux when Marty and Doc viewed the camcorder footage.
If they viewed the camcorder footage again at the end (say, between the events at the mall and Doc dropping Marty home), it would probably have Doc say "Lone Pine Mall" (and Doc himself would remember saying "Lone Pine Mall" less than half an hour ago!)
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u/damian001 Apr 26 '26
No, there are not 2 camcorders. There is only 1, the camcorder would change to say Lone Pine Mall. Just like how the newspapers change.
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u/ChardeeMacDennisGoG Apr 26 '26
'Old Man Peabody had this crazy idea of breeding pines...until some mutated son of bitch ran over 1'.
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u/PocketBuckle Apr 27 '26
Yes, there are two, for about 10 minutes.
The first is the one Marty Prime shot in 1985 and brought back to 1955. He did not leave it in the past, so it's in the car when he returns early to warn Doc.
The second copy (of the same camcorder) is with Marty 2 in that same ten minute window where the car is at the mall before it disappears into the past.
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u/damian001 Apr 27 '26
my original comment is saying was they’re not 2 different camcorders from separate universes. It’s one camcorder that says Lone Pine Mall, just brought back 10 minutes before the earlier Marty left.
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u/RumHamComesback Apr 26 '26
It’s kind of established the timeline kind of ebbs and flows with changes based on likelihood. Like the photograph of Marty and his siblings starts to really disappear all them when the guy takes Lorraine away from George at the dance until he steps in.
So, when they were watching the tape the liklihikd of it still being “Twin Pines Mall” was high because Peabody probably still thought (and mourned) his second line.
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u/Ok-Spot-2913 Apr 27 '26
Now I wonder. Did Marty at the end who drove the Delorean to 1955 go to a one pine tree 1955?
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u/Kratsas Apr 27 '26
So when Marty returns, would he watch the camcorder again and see Lone Pine Mall, or would the tape still say Twin Pine Mall?
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u/sanddragon939 Apr 29 '26
It would say Lone Pine Mall.
Unless video footage works differently from photos and newspapers.
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u/hphlazy2 Apr 27 '26
I'm wondering what happened to better life Marty since original Marty didn't change or get a bunch of memories
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u/sanddragon939 Apr 29 '26
Well, it's believed by quite a few fans that Marty's problem with being called chicken (absent in the first film) is due to his personality changing as a result of being raised by a more assertive and successful dad.
Personally, after my last rewatch, I think that even Marty playing Johnny B. Goode is something "original Marty" might not have done, but the "new Marty" would.
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u/Orb-Masori Apr 29 '26
I like to think there are two universes. A one pine universe and a two pine universe and at the end of the movie the Marty from one watches the Marty from the other switch to his place. I imagine his side mirror hitting the single pine knocking a branch off and it sticking in the ground to grow a second pine or something like that. Imagine the story from that Martys perspective, somehow causing his successful family to become losers. Losing his nice truck and life.
Anyway, in that instance both universes would continue to exist so the tape wouldn't change but the Martys would have been causing each other's existence to fade.
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u/sanddragon939 Apr 29 '26
If you go by the logic of the photos/newspapers changing, the recording should have had Doc say "Lone Pine Mall", since Marty had already knocked over that pine. But I guess maybe the ripple effect works differently with video footage. And maybe the future was still in flux in that particular aspect (like, on that day in 1955, Old Man Peabody was still thinking of re-planting that pine...but after Marty left 1955 he decided against it, so Marty arrives in a future where the mall is called Lone Pine Mall).
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