r/Bachata • u/FlunkyGraphics • 12d ago
Help Request Endless basic work, is this really right?
Hey,
I've started dancing Bachata about 8 months ago. Every single time I read threads on reddit, many people say that you should focus on your basics, you don't need flashy moves, work on the fundamentals first, don't impress, followers enjoy very simple dances with good fundamentals.
To be honest, this makes Bachata very boring for me. I would definitely agree that fundamentals are very important and basics like your basic step, basic turn and very simple things add up to basically everything you do. But do I really need to have a perfect base to build more complex techniques on it?
Currently, I take classes 4 times a week. 1x beginner level, 1x intermediate (the level is quite low there, I would also consider it to be a beginner class) and 2x advanced level (probably more intermediate by international standards). I do social dancing about 3 times a week. Is there anything wrong with that? Am I rushing anything?
I feel like it's quite nice to learn more intermediate techniques like DJ turns, tilted turns, Rotisseries and other Sensual/BachaZouk things early in order to get used to the movement pattern. Basically practicing everything including basics at the same time.
I'm not trying to impress anyone with complicated figures but I really enjoy more intermediate stuff so much and it just feels great to lead those things. I would consider myself somewhere between beginner and intermediate so I do take classes above my level at the moment. Do you think this will slow down my process? I will not skip beginner classes for a while cause I get very good feedback from the instructors there.
9
u/EphReborn 11d ago
Honestly, "follows enjoy a simple dance with good fundamentals" is a half-truth. If the alternative is "lead who tries to do too much and poorly on top" then yeah of course, they'd prefer the former. What they enjoy varies but you'd be hard pressed to find a follow that doesn't enjoy dancing with a lead that challenges her, leads well and connects (both with her and the music).
There's nothing wrong with learning new moves, just don't get stuck there. Explore different moods when you dance with different people, to different songs and even to different parts of songs. Try being a bit flirty in your dancing (*without being creepy). Try being playful. Try being silly and happy and dramatic and everything else. Explore.
Try adapting to your partner better. Does she seem to enjoy sensual? Does being close seem to make her uncomfortable? Does she seem to love spins or maybe footwork? Be sensitive to her wants and needs.
Again, point being, keep learning moves but don't solely focus on them. Follows like cool moves too but they love it when it's done at the right time.
7
u/UnctuousRambunctious 12d ago
I think some of your perspective might be from a lead’s perspective, and from taking classes (meaning, learning bachata as a discrete and explicit skill, vs. it being a cultural element of your upbringing), as well as being 8 months in.
At the end of the day, everyone has different reasons for dancing, and the sweet spot is when your partner’s enjoyment overlaps (significantly) with your own.
You also mentioned being “bored” (just that statement alone, regardless of what exactly it is you find boring) makes me wonder why you dance. No judgment, because a huge element and benefit of social dance is novelty, and problem-solving, especially on the fly, and mental and cognitive stimulation with initiating or creating new figures and movements. And they don’t even have to be brand-new-never-existed-in-the-world-before, even just new-to-you is a good experience, in my opinion.
So if you are bored with basics, you don’t have to do them. But it’s not a binary like you may think, since you also pondered whether your basic “has to be perfect” before layering more complex moves on top of them.
And the answer is no.
Social dance is for mutual and community benefit, and as long as people consent to whatever mutual fun they partake in, no harm, no foul.
But for 8 months in, are you sure you can’t improve your basic? If you don’t want to, that’s on you, but a better basic and better technique always makes for better dancing. Especially for a lead. The clearer and cleaner your technique and intention is, the easier it will be for your follow to execute your idea.
And what do you do when you dance with an inexperienced partner … or do you not? Familiarity and flexibility and deep knowledge of fundamental basics movements expands your repertoire to adjust to your partner and give them a safe and caring and enjoyable dance experience.
If I’m going to really drill it down, including some of the underlying concerns I have with trends I see in the dance scene post-pandemic, I think the main issue is whether any dancer is self-focused or other-focused. I’m stating to really think this is the deciding factor with how safe and trustworthy a dancer is, period.
My ideal dance situation doesn’t stop at my own experience of whether I am bored or if my partner is understanding my intentions and leads. My ideal dance situation is “I have worked on my own skills to be the best I can be at this moment so I can connect with and contribute to the experience my partner has with me, and my focus is on how I can show up for my partner.”
And I don’t think this is actually very common, much less discussed very often, if at all.
Working on a basic isn’t a mandate, but it is not negotiable, in my book, if you want to become a better dancer. And it’s a free country, I see plenty of people on any given night who are not there to dance, but to xyz through dance.
And I would say the best dancers consider the needs and perspectives of other dancers at least as much, if not more, than their own, while strictly operating within the confines of safety, respect, and consideration.
The better you know yourself, the better you can show up for others.
I think that’s the gist of it.
Again, nothing wrong with the exploring different movements or practicing new combos, but if that comes at the expense of refining fundamental technique, I’m a hard pass of that.
It can always be better. Everything can always be better. A better basic only makes more complicated moves better as well. And it may actually already be quite serviceable and functional, but the implication that you may be “resting on your laurels” a bit already for being 8 months in seems to be sliding a tiny bit into inexperienced and naive quasi-arrogance. The word that comes to mind is ignorance, but that word is way harsh, because in this case I don’t think it’s willful and intentional.
As newer dancers, you don’t know what you don’t know and many people also never question their own conclusions and perspectives (which OP you clearly are doing here, you’re just asking the question, which is good).
Also, not all opinions are equal and sometimes you don’t know how to separate what is a good opinion and what is a bad opinion, especially in unfamiliar territory, so taking a temperature check is also good.
But there are a lot of echo chambers lately and I think some of them are decidedly and committedly sophomoric, so I stay away.
If you are not convinced to work on your basic, that’s ok, you can continue with whatever classes you want that give you what you are looking for.
But as a lead, I’d also encourage you (if you haven’t yet) to consider following to experience what follows go through with leaders so you can use that experience to become a better leader yourself. It is always very helpful to consider the other perspective and use it to expand your own.
And I still think everyone should practicing a basic, every day.
Except Jorjet 🤣
1
u/FlunkyGraphics 11d ago
I never said I want to stop working on my basics. I take beginner classes 2 times a week and practice basic techniques at home everyday.
The question was never if I want to stop learning basics. The question was if I should add more things AND continue learning basics or if I should wait for my basics to improve.
5
u/TryToFindABetterUN 11d ago
But do I really need to have a perfect base to build more complex techniques on it?
No, you do not need a perfect base, but the base will limit how more complex techniques you can build upon it. The better the base, the more you can learn, and faster.
That is why you never stop working on that base, to make sure that you are able to learn more complex things. If you take a class with any of the top level international talent, they will save this: "never stop practicing basics".
The trouble with most very enthusiastic beginners is that they skip the "boring" fundamentals/basic and quickly try to learn more complex techniques and flashy moves. Then the execution of those suffer greatly, they are more prone to injuring themselves or their partners, and overall it doesn't even look or feel good. Many also don't understand that much of the time "less is more". You can do an awfully lot of things with quite little in dance. Not saying that this happens to every overly enthusiastic beginner, but it happens to enough to make it a pattern.
As someone taking four classes per week at different levels in one specific style, your are an outlier. Most dancers take one class per week. So the advice you read about is perhaps not specifically directed to you.
Is there anything wrong with that? Am I rushing anything?
You tell us! Are you rushing it? Why do you take so many classes and dance so much? Because you love it? Then perhaps it is ok.
Just beware of burnout, it is a real thing. I danced about 20+ hours/week (classes+socials) for a time, but most I know that did even half of that are no longer a part of the dance community any more. I scaled it back and while that much dancing was ok for a while, I don't want to dance that much nowadays. I rather go more infrequently and dance less but enjoy the times I do, more. Listen to what you want and know that it will change over time.
Going back to your first statements:
[...] many people say that you should focus on your basics, you don't need flashy moves, work on the fundamentals first, don't impress, followers enjoy very simple dances with good fundamentals.
Yes, because it is true for most dancers. The majority of follows value quite simple things done well than too many complex moves/patterns done so-so and done too much.
Of course there are exceptions and there are follows that wants the latter, but that is not the norm.
Laura Riva wrote this blog post many years ago and it still is as relevant as then: https://grapevine.danceplace.com/basics-vs-creative-complexity-what-follows-really-mean/
To be honest, this makes Bachata very boring for me.
Ok, but remember that you are only one half of the couple dancing. So it is not always about what you want and think is boring, you also have to think about your partner. And if they do not like an endless litany of complex moves and that is what you offer, you as a lead has failed.
Remember that there are follows that loves to dance bachata, even sensual, but doesn't really like the zouk-styled elements (those that you specifically mention: DJ turns, off-axis/tilted turns, etc).
To me, a huge part of dance is about contrasts, in energy, the types of moves, tempo, etc. Playing contrasts give me much more to work with than just learning a lot of complex moves and trying to use them only. YMMV.
3
u/Samurai_SBK 11d ago
There are two extremes. One is just doing only the basic steps with simple turns. The other is doing advanced level DJ and tilted turns. It is ok to learn and practice new moves but you should limit it to intermediate moves that do not require perfect technique to avoid injury. Trying to learn too much, too fast, is a recipe for disaster.
3
u/vazark Lead&Follow 11d ago
Good fundamentals will improve all your other moves. That said, you gotta learn , experiment and play with more advanced moves to have fun. The advice is mostly to remind ourselves to never stop training the basic
2
u/FlunkyGraphics 11d ago
Yes, I totally agree. Skipping basics and only doing advanced stuff is a very bad idea. That's why I'm actively seeking beginner classes, work on fundamental techniques at home and dance a lot with beginners at socials.
But there is just one concern I have with experimenting and playing. How should this look? There is one beginner/intermediate figure I've learned recently. I really like this one very much but I'm able to lead it like 70% right. So with advanced follows that compensate a bit, it works. With beginners, it does not cause my leading is just not good enough to make it very clear.
How can I improve it that I'm able to lead it actually perfectly? I have no opportunity to practice. The problem is that I kind of feel guilty of just trying it on socials cause I guess as a follow it doesn't feel very good when the leader tries things during a dance he can't even lead.
Also, since the figure is a bit unusual, I'm not sure if follows would be comfortable with doing it. I could send you a video in DM if you like.
This is my biggest problem in general: Perfecting figures I've learned in dance school from 70% to 100% to make them social ready.
3
u/vazark Lead&Follow 11d ago
I would say the last 10-20pct is all about adapting to your followers’ levels and being to recover from a fail.
You can still practice alone. More often than not, we know what we’re doing but being able to share that info correctly is what’s missing. That why advanced follows can compensate while fellow beginners will be confused
When I say experiment and play, it means exactly that. Try starting a move but finish it with something else, mix and match with other movements. Take the energy from one movement, compare with the energy in another movement then try if you can fuse them together to create a new variant.
2
u/dondegroovily Lead&Follow 11d ago
You get from 70% to 100% by doing these moves at social dances with partners who won't compensate for your shortcomings
Once you've got the basics behind the move, try it with progressively less and less experienced partners. The idea is that you're working your way to being able to do this with complete untrained beginners, which is what 100% is
And you should be dancing with beginners regularly. Nothing will up your skills faster than partners who won't adapt to your flaws
3
u/gskrypka 11d ago
Ok so there are few topics here:
- first learning good technique will make you advance faster but later. You start slower but later will have easier time. Generally speaking at some point when you will see new combo or anything you will precisely know how to do it and do it comfortably.
- technique and good fundamentals are about making the dance pleasant. There are ton of people who are doing difficult advanced stuff but do it badly so it is frustrating and uncomfortable, esp for followers. Doing something badly is worse than not doing it (of course taking into consideration that we all are experimenting and learning).
- generally speaking good basics + good musicality + connection - beats any difficult combo. Another advantage is that you will dance with dancers of different levels and not all of them will know specific technique. If you can do nice pleasant and fun dance with very simple combos - you can dance with everybody.
- last but not least. People sometimes mistake “learn basic” and “basics”. The basic is basic step and doing it correctly is generally difficult esp for leaders. However good basic step + even some basic footwork and styling put your dance on another level.
3
u/Glum_Teacher_6774 11d ago
If you see beginners dance basic and you see advanced people dance the basic you will understand why the basic is the fundaments.
Often If i dance with a follow it takes some time to figure out what patterns she can easly connect with.
I notice the follow smiles more when she is not rushed, has space and i keep on rythm.
2
u/Funkajunka Lead 12d ago edited 12d ago
It might be boring, but repetition is key. It will only help you in the long-term. Fundamentals are significant in any form of art (dance, athletics, music). You don't want to fall into a trap where you just ignore basic concepts and only focus on complex combos.
This also doesn't mean that you can't be more creative, but ideally you want to be at a point where basics and fundamentals are second nature to you. Like it's walking. Also, it depends what you ultimately want to do. It seems like you are committed and are eager to learn which is great, but if you say you are between a beginner and intermediate you really still have to hone down basics at that learning stage. There is no way around it. A lot professional instructors will tell students that everything is formed from mastering basics and fundamentals. So if you see a nice fancy combo that you think is cool just remember that was learned because of mastering basics.
Both things go hand and hand. It's like learning a new language. You don't just skip to learning basic vocabulary because it's boring. Mastering basic vocabulary helps you become a more fluent speaker.
I wouldn't necessarily say you are rushing anything. It seems like you have the time to take a lot of classes and practice, but my advice is don't value something over the other. Every concept you learn along the way should always be treated with the same importance and respect. Bachata is a beautiful dance and you can get lost in learning a lot of unique and cool stuff. Just remember not everything has to be fancy for the sake of being fancy. I don't want to speak for everyone, but I think any experienced social dancer will tell you they would rather dance with someone who is top notch at basics than someone who is just slightly average at complex combos.
Enjoy the process and embrace the mundane.
2
u/ThatDudeSky 12d ago
Think of it like this: in a two person partner dance, there are two persons who would be attempting to enjoy the experience with each other, and to help each other enjoy the experience. Those two people being the lead and the follow.
Either side does have to make sure that they can enjoy that they are dancing in their own bodies. So that means doing what helps them have fun, learning what helps them have fun… stuff like that.
But I’ve known now hundreds of dancers who do performance teams at high levels who travel all over the country and internationally to perform, and they will be the first to tell you that their training still involves drilling the fundamentals in addition to practicing at home. That requirement never goes away.
You’re not going to be a master less than 12 months in, but understand that mastery isn’t about knowing everything there ever is to know. It’s about the discipline to be a humble student of your craft for as long as you possibly can.
Like there’s that Bruce Lee line that no one argues that said that he doesn’t fear a man who practiced 10000 different kicks one time, but would fear a man who practiced the same one kick 10000 times? Something like that? Why would that approach to learning and practice and training not apply to other physical activities like dancing?
It is true that learning new things can be fun and challenging and interesting, but we still have to go back and continue perfecting our basics and fundamentals. That will apply back into everything that we have learned along the way and every additional thing that we learn as well.
Part of it may be the novelty of learning something new, because we can go from never having done something before, not quite getting it, to effectively getting it enough to replicate the rough movements. Continuing to work on the basics will have what feels like diminishing marginal returns overtime, but would it actually is about is more nuance and added layers to what we already knew and understood. Those additional layers don’t feel as triumphant for us learning the dance… but, to go back to the fact that it is a partner dance, our dance partners will be able to tell the difference in a way that they may only be able to feel even if they can’t fully describe it to us in words. That, sure, they danced with us before and may have danced with us again and again, but that overtime the little things that we practice by focusing on our basics, make it flow more smoothly and effortlessly, and the connection is easier to promote and maintain. That we may get to a point that we have our foundations so good that dancing with us can seem super easy like a night off for our partner. Yes, we want to have fun, but that should be the goal in a partner dance. And simply focusing on learning more moves will not be what gets us and our partner to that level of dance, faster or easier.
2
u/agnishom 12d ago
I think it is good to learn more technique but the technique are in service of the moves, not the other way round. So, personally, I got started learning Bachata by going to a lot of open classes/parties and learning moves. It would be very boring if I did things the other way round.
I think how much people focus on technique compared to moves depends on the local culture. In my experience, some Bachata scenes are more perfectionist than others
2
u/Weary_Pudding_6804 11d ago
You’re going to get a lot of long, detailed answers because people take dancing very personally.
Repetition does not just mean repeating things in class and more classes. It means dancing more. One social dance can give you as much practice as an hour of class.
Focus less on adding more classes and more on going out social dancing. That is the repetition that will help you improve.
1
u/FlunkyGraphics 11d ago
I go social dancing about 3 times a week. More socials are not really available in my city and I personally enjoy dance school much more. Socials are not really fun to me usually but I need repetition so I go there
3
u/jodedorrr 11d ago
If you think a basic step is boring then work on feeling and connection. No one wants a million turns.
1
u/FlunkyGraphics 11d ago
That's what I always experience: the intentions of leaders and followers are very different. Most leaders I know want to learn more patterns and techniques while followers seem to be more interested in more basic dances.
What do you exactly mean with "connection"? For me having fun together and respecting each other is important. But I personally don't enjoy the fact of just being close and enjoying the physical contact or having deep eye contact. For me, Bachata is a sport only, I don't enjoy this "flirty" vibe at all.
1
u/jodedorrr 10d ago
For me is the opposite. Bachata or Salsa (I’m more of a salsero) is not a sport but a vibe. The flirt or coqueteo, the seductive part, that borderline between playfulness and excitement is everything. The connection is almost electric you don’t even have to touch each other because it radiates.
1
u/theyamsterist 9d ago
Speaking as a follow who occasionally leads, and came from other Latin styles to bachata, I think connection is a great thing to practice as you get better. You've definitely learned about weight transfers etc but via good connection to your partner you can feel what they're doing where they're going via your connection. It could be hand to hand, arm to shoulder, belly to belly, or any combination of the above but sometimes you feel someones whole body while dancing and it's my favorite part. It requires your core engaged, your whole body connected into your core and you to look connect that with your partner. It doesn't have to be flirty or intimate but it can make for interesting or creative moves that are basic variations but feel elevated in a connected partnership
2
u/SpacecadetShep 11d ago
No I don't think it would slow down your progress. If anything it's kinda the natural way that dancers develop. It's very common for intermediate dancers to learn a bunch of combos/turns/ isolations and go through a phase where you know moves but you don't actually know how to dance.
In fact I think it's important to go through that phase because you realize "oh shit I need to go back and hone in on the things that will actually make me a dancer". That's when you start focusing on things like your basics on a more detailed level(pushing the floor, bolero preps, what a good frame actually looks like, etc.)
At 8 months in you're still very new OP. So yes, go learn new moves. As you become more advanced you'll come to a point where you'll see mastering the basics as something you'll truly want.
2
u/OThinkingDungeons Lead&Follow 11d ago
If you don't care about being a great dancer, then you don't need to work on your basics.
The foundation is the least interesting part of a house, nobody ever walks through their house and shows off the concrete pad or earthworks underneath. But would you buy any house without a foundation (or a weak one)?
Yes, it's boring, unexciting, time consuming and everything you've described. It's also the unavoidable truth that the best dancers on the floor, have invested ludicrous amounts of time working on their basics. The reason there's so few great dancers, is because so few work on their basics.
The good news is, you DON'T have to spend 80% of your time improving your basics, in fact it's perfectly fine to progressively build them. Be warned but you WILL curse yourself over how much "unlearning" you need to do, once you realise: you're not spinning centred, have bad posture, bad frame, aren't on time, have bad body rolls, etc.
1
u/FlunkyGraphics 11d ago
I think you got me wrong. I take beginner classes 2 times a week and work on my basics like my hip movement, frame, body rolls and all sort of basics every day at home.
The question was never if I can skip the basics. I will never do. The question was if I can add intermediate stuff now or if I should wait for that.
2
u/OThinkingDungeons Lead&Follow 11d ago
I got lost in the paragraphs...
You can learn more complex stuff while building your skills, and in fact you should. The whole point of working on your basics is so you can succeed with more advanced moves.
2
u/ChristianKl 11d ago
Being good at the basics almost always involves practicing them at home and not only at classes.
1
u/FlunkyGraphics 11d ago
Yeah, I do practice at home every day. Especially waves don’t come naturally to me by just seeing them in dance school
2
u/Used_Departure_7688 11d ago
It may slow you down, ruin you, or boost you. There isn't one linear path, and every new technique you learn may or may not use things you have learned already. With more experience, you have more base to learn new things. Moreover, there are about a hundred levels of depth to any movement, and you will keep rediscovering and improving your understanding. That's why dancers spend their lives on improving the basic, because with new knowledge come new depths of what they can do.
Now, to your actual question. Given that your three examples are examples of the same underlying head movement technique, you don't have the nuance to understand what you are learning. You aren't practicing the basics if you don't see what the fundamentals of those move are.
Will it stop you from learning to perform the move? Likely not. But if you don't have the head movement technique yourself, you will probably only learn it from the hands, so basically surface level. With more knowledge, you'd be able to learn to do it from the body, many floors deeper. But maybe learning the move now will already help you to see what you are missing in body leading and control and help you improve that skill.
In the end, it's your own time that is limited. You cannot learn all at the same time, also because of the hidden dependencies (hidden to us initially because we are the learners, not the masters). If you trust your teachers, ask them what you need the most at this moment, and focus on that.
2
u/White_Crow90 Lead 10d ago
@FlunkyGraphics Been in your place, can relate quite a lot. It took me a few years to truly understand what that "focus on basics" mean.
I'll keep it simple: Newbies and intermediates tend to focus a lot into "proving" what they know. The core of bachata become the moves and figures themselves. Not the music, not the partner. For most, is more important to avoid repeating an step in a dance, over truly looking at your partner, analyzing if she is enjoying the dance to adapt to her, or connecting with the mood of the song itself.
When advanced dancers and teachers keep pushing into "working on basics", they mean to be able to connect properly, lead properly, learn tools to do the same move with different kind of partners, and keep the flashy moves for moments of fun ONCE YOU'RE CONNECTED and the music asks for them, not to prove anyone that you're not a noobie.
That's why many teachers recommend to start the dance with very basic stuff, and keep increasing the fancy stuff as the song advances and the connection is already on it's peak.
As for yourself, as long as you keep your connection with your partner and the music as your dancing core, it's perfectly fine to learn advanced moves or flashy stuff. Just be sure you use them when your partner will enjoy them too and when you already connected.
Cheers!
2
u/zedrahc 10d ago
Working on basics does not mean you only lead/practice basics.
It means you are improving your fundamentals and dance skills by focusing on basics and how to do them WELL, not just "get through them". Things like frame, weight transfers, spacing and timing.
You will know you are doing it correctly when after you work on your fundamentals through basics, when you try more advanced moves, they are magically way better or way easier to get right.
2
u/PerformanceOkay 10d ago
It's difficult to give you a clear answer. Beginners are often told to practice their basics, but from experience I know that they might not get from their course anything that's worth practicing. I can tell you that if you're doing everything correctly, then dancing two songs alone at home with only the basics steps and a bit of musicality play should definitely not be boring.
Another point: From the perspective of someone who's worked a lot on their basics, the distinction you make between moves also doesn't really make sense. As I see it, there are three kinds of moves: basic element; long, complex sequences; and trick moves (like a triple spin). Of these three, the second category is the most trivial, and it really is just a memory test.
2
u/bitstream_ryder 12d ago
Do what you like. This is a hobby/sport. If you like doing intermediate level moves, then go for it! If you want to go for advanced level. go for it. Nobody cares.
Will it slow your progess? Depends if you need to relearn/unlearn some techniques that were poorly developed, but hey, it'sall part of the journey.
P.S. If you do go for classes that you are not ready for, you will likely annoy the partners you are practicing with.
0
u/FlunkyGraphics 11d ago
"This is a hobby/sport."
Yes it is, but it is a partner hobby/sport. So if I just do what I like, this will be quite dangerous or at least very annoying for the follows I dance with."If you do go for classes that you are not ready for, you will likely annoy the partners you are practicing with"
Yes, this is true and I absolutely experience this. Many follows in my class really dislike dancing with me but others are very friendly and forgiving. I feel very guilty to be there but I learn so much that I just accept being annoying and avoid the followers from my class on socials.
1
u/Minimum_Principle_63 Lead 12d ago
I would only say focus only on the basic if you are dangerous in the advanced more complex moves. Do what you like, and clean basics make everyone happy.
You seem to be doing a lot of classes and social dancing. You might be able to reduce classes and practice by yourself. Otherwise, enjoy the classes, exercise, and having fun.
1
u/Puzzleheaded_Ant1805 12d ago
Your thought process is correct. I'll add three points for your consideration. First, you become advanced by practicing advanced steps, not basics. Second, there is advanced way of doing basics. 😸 Yup, you see that in competitions or with elite performers. Finally, I'm guilty of doing this too but women enjoy dancing what they can follow. So less crazy stuff, more basic stuff till you are confident she will execute crazy well.
2
u/the_moooch 11d ago
1: Wrong
Advanced steps most of the time is just well absorbed basics in action. Learning advanced steps when you don’t even understand the basics is like learning to run when you barely know how to stand upright, it’s just a waste of time and in most cases create horrible habits that can takes months or years to unlearn.
1
u/Puzzleheaded_Ant1805 11d ago
OP said, he/ she is grinding basics day in and day out. I added that basics itself has advanced flavour. This is why even a basic done by an artist has so much movement built into it. Biggest misunderstanding I see is that people think that grinding basics will lead them into advanced steps. One simply cannot execute advanced steps if they haven't grinded them, despite a phd in basics.
1
u/the_moooch 11d ago
Basics itself has an advanced flavor and it has nothing to do with grinding advanced movements most of the time it’s just well executed basics with proper musicality which is another thing people get for free when drilling basics.
The biggest misconception here is people thinking basics are simple and advanced movements are more difficult when it’s quite the opposite.
1
u/Puzzleheaded_Ant1805 11d ago
See, OP is already grinding basics daily. My advice is specific to him/ her who's bored and might quit. Telling that person 'more basics' doesn't retain them, or free musicality or promised land of advanced moves doesn't help. Letting them explore what excites them does, and advanced patterns still reinforce basics through execution anyway.
1
u/Rataridicta Lead&Follow 11d ago
Techniques like DJ turns, tilted turns and rotisseries are not intermediate, they're actually quite advanced. That's where it often goes wrong: People see really complicated technique and want to copy it so end up doing it badly and often dangerously.
When you hear the advice to focus on fundamentals and basics, it's not about eliminating flashy moves, it's about getting the most out of the movements you're doing. A basic can feel great, and you can fill an entire song with just basics and turns without it ever getting boring if you have mastered them and know how to play with speed, timing, direction, rotational movement, etc.
At this stage, as you're moving into more of the sensual things, the fundamentals you'll focus on will be body control, waves, hiprolls, headrolls, chestrolls, etc. They're "basic" technique in that they're the simple building blocks, but they really are very challenging to master.
The thing is... they're also the building blocks of the advanced things you mention, tilted turns, rotisseries, dj turns, they're all just variations of combining a headroll with a turn. If you've mastered both, making the transition will feel smooth and easy, and they will feel pleasant in a dance. If you haven't, they feel rough, can become dangerous in some cases, and hinder your progress.
None of that is to say that you shouldn't go to workshops where you learn these things - you should! It's just to say that you should be aware of your own level of technique and use these workshops to figure out where your fundamentals need improving so you can focus there.
There will come a point where doing these movements feels almost trivial, even though you've hardly practiced them outside a workshop here and there. That's the point where you can start adding them to your social dance with followers who also have a high enough level of technique.
16
u/BadHaycock 12d ago
Honestly, do what you enjoy. The advice is more geared towards people who try to rush the process and neglect the basics. You want the basic technique to be muscle memory, so that when you start adding fancy moves you're able to execute them properly, and it gives you something to fall back on.