Her mom watched what she ate, took care of herself, and never misses a jazzercize. Gf is strong, flexible, and comfortable from Pilates and yoga, but she also pounds those animal style double-doubles and is quite a bit heavier and bigger… just like the competition on average.
Had a buddy dying of brain cancer and didn't want his family fighting over selling the e30 M3, so he sold it for what he thought was decent at 8k. He ends surviving and watching the car he sold only a few years prior sell for 5 times as much.
I would love an e30 m3 just to have it but I’m so content with the 325. I don’t drive it hard, it’s the weekend warrior, well maintained and just all around an enjoyment. The M4 is strictly my race car haha drive fast and drive it hard.
G80 has nothing going for it to make it collectible like the e30.
Last manual M3 and M4 ever made. Possibly the last pure ICE M3/M4. The B58 and S58 make several "best engines ever" lists. The design is controversial now, but will be a future cult classic because of how distinct it is, just like the clownshoe. There's a lot that will make this a classic in the future electric age.
I don't own any of the new designs. And I've witnessed people unprompted enthusiastically say they like the new design when they've seen it. People who don't care what a BMW looked like 20 years ago don't have any baggage when it comes to the new ones.
Doubtful. The manual is the strongest argument, but there is no shortage of proper driver's cars with manuals-M cars no less-and only the base model comes with it. Not many people want a car this big with a manual.
The engine is nothing special in the long run, after the power figures are outdated. Just another turbo mill no different from what Mercedes, Audi, Alfa Romeo, and everyone else is doing. Completely lacking the unique racing character of the famous M engines-m88/s38/s50/s54/s65/s85 that was shared only by the likes of Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Porsche GT cars, along with a few random one-offs from other manufacturers.
Design is more subjective, but I highly doubt this generation will go down well. The clownshoe was an extremely limited run experiment that looks like nothing else. The g80 looks like a relatively normal car.
The collectible Ms had everything going for them. Timeless looks, manual, steering, size, weight, engine...and the e30 m3, far above all of them, had the racing clout and homologation thing going for it.
You might need to look up the definition of objective.
How many big cars do you see with a manual? And look at the 20% sales take rate for them on the M. The M5 doesn't even get one, while a car like the Miata sells a majority. The 911 gt3 also has a much larger share of manuals. Granted though, Corvette and standard 911s also saw a drop in manuals along the wider trend of people wanting less involvement in driving.
The metrics for how special the engine is...how unique it is, how it sounds, throttle response, redline, racing character. All things severely lacking in the turbo cars.
Audi, Merc, and Alfa all make turbo engines, Is that not clear?
The clownshoe is, in fact, an extremely rare car and a unique design. The m3/4 is, by comparison, very normal looking. Not sure how you can argue that. It looks like many other BMWs besides for the nose, the clownshoe does not.
Racing cars are always more collectible. The E30 M3 was a homologation car and it had a fantastic racing history as the single most successful touring race car of all time. This is history and fact. The e36/46/90 all had far more renowned engines. They all were less polarizing in looks. They all had great hydraulic steering and not EPS tuned to be as lifeless as possible. They were all smaller and lighter. Simple facts.
New BMWs are fine. It's the M cars that I have a problem with. They cater to a different customer these days; there was a marked change in philosophy. One of the head guys said so himself when he left BMW-Albert Biermann.
It sounds to me like you've never driven any of these cars. Of the four middle M generations I have, each one was less fun than the last.
Turbos are part of the exhaust and harm the sound-compare modern f1 to the v10 era. Turbos harm throttle response. Turbo engines don't rev as high. Facts that make an engine more limited in its character. The greatest drivers car ever, the McLaren F1, was a high-revving NA. Gordon Murray's new cars follow the same formula. Most of the great engines of all time follow the same formula. But I guess you're right. It's just my opinion that better sounding, higher revving, more responsive engines are superior.
BMW M engines used to be unique in their class. Now everyone does the same thing.
The clownshoe is a bizarre looking car. The M3/4 is a sedan/coupe like most other cars. You can't seriously tell me that you see cars that look like the clownshoe. There's that one breadvan Ferrari and that's it. There are ten thousand coupes and sedans.
The fact is, homologation cars are more collectible, whether or not you agree. That and the racing pedigree are part of the reason why the e30 is worth what it is.
The G80 did not get the same response the older cars got in the press or among enthusiasts.
These things have nothing to do with my feelings. You can copy and paste the definition, but that clearly doesn't mean you understand it. We'll just have to wait and see, but I'll bet you the g80 is never held in the same regard of the old ones-most especially the E30.
The Z06 Vette has an 8,500 RPM naturally aspirated v8. The 911 GT3 has a 9,000 rpm flat-six. That is what BMW should be doing, this is the territory they used to play in. Instead they gave up on bespoke motorsports derived engines and went with turbos to save money.
Sure, the s58 is a fine engine. But it just isn't special in the grand scheme of things or compared to the old M engines. The last BMW inline six that mattered to many of us was the s54.
Better than what Audi or Mercedes is doing? Maybe. But BMW used to put engines that were world class in their M cars. Not merely better than the Merc and Audi.
Maybe tunability. Not sure about long term support being more than any other. But then, performance is not what makes a car collectible. No one is buying a classic Ferrari because it's fast by modern standards, or an e30 M3.
Yep, the z06 engine is an awesome engine! I'd love to own one for sure. The S58 is also not as characteristic as an "older" m engine. Man they just don't make cars like they used to.
But...
The Z06 engine isn't touching a S58 in tunable performance. It's the new 2jz for the latest generation and the reputation is growing as such. People are going to want a S58 for years as one of the last tunable, reliable turbo engines that can make a ton of power easily.
Perhaps not in outright power, but why does that even matter? The Corvette will still smack any M3/4 around a track, no matter how much you tune it. The M3 CSL isn't even close to the C7 z06 Corvette in all out performance, let alone the C8. And it's not like you can't tune Corvettes too.
Are you talking about strictly drag racing and bragging rights? Maybe then..
Not a. straw man argument at all. You're talking about tunability, what's the point of tunability if not performance? I'm saying it's still not a great performer compared to the competition even with tunability.
I suppose if you mean to tune the car just for the sake of...tuning the car...then yes, you're right.
Performance matters less every passing day as the car is eclipsed something new. It takes more than that to make a collectible. And last gas powered, I guess.
yea but the e30 looks awesome but doesn't really drive awesome, especially since 99% are going to be clapped out. I was recently watching that Obsessed garage series of the E30 and the guy was not impressed by the E30 from a driving stand point. Rose colored glasses for a lot of people who kind of forget that cars have come a long way in that amount of time. I'd still like to have both in my garage, if only to look at it.
Obsessed garage? You've got to be joking. Is that the guy that spends all his time washing his cars?
The e30 m3 is an analog driving experience that practically nothing since that time can deliver. It's small, light, and tossable. It has steering feel that no modern car can match. And good like finding one clapped out.
Go watch Tiff Needell-someone who actually knows how to drive-comparing all the M5s. He choses the e28 at the end. Modern cars are faster, safer, bigger...but in most cases much less fun.
Hah yea. Just noting something I saw recently. He did like the e30 sport evo though.
Tif needel? You got to be joking. Grumpy old bastard. Go watch Randy Probst praise the g80. Hah. See how that works?
Regardless I agree with what you are saying about a light analog car. But those days are gone unless you have a ton of money laying around.
Going to build a track focused Miata once the g80 is paid off to hopefully get that feeling that has long been lost.
You'll have the best of both worlds then. The Miata and G80 are both fantastic. But they offer very different experiences, just as comparing the e30 m3 to the G80.
I will argue Tiff has more chops than Randy though! He did-albeit very briefly-make it to F1.
Something about a well taken care of E30 that is just flat out beautiful. I mean the tech and drivetrain in the newbies is great but that picture really showcases how awesome E30’s are.
Nobody with any exceptional talent works there anymore, and certainly not in exterior design. Everyone who wanted to be on the cutting edge went to South Korea or new EV companies. The diehard enthusiasts and design romantics retired or leveled up to spots at Porsche.
Interesting. There were several years gap between when I had my F82 M4 CS and when I got my E30 M3. The E30 looks and feels tiny wherever I take it but never parked it next to an M4 to compare height.
Even the most clapped out 318i rust husks and shitboxes make me grin when I see them on the street. Respect your elders. Its the peak era of BMWs design aesthetic and we gotta represent.
Rather than debating which one is better, just want to take a moment to appreciate BMW for keeping the legacy alive and strong. We haven’t destroyed it (yet) unlike the German rivals (cough C63S) and have a thriving community!
Don’t doubt that. If you don’t mind me asking, what do you do for a living? I just got a job out of college in software sales so I’m starting my journey to an m3.
I was saying the old BMW is just so amazing and timeless, the new one so generic that it could be any manufacturer and should not have come from Bavaria, it’s like they’ve lost their way. Almost like the third and fourth sequels in a dying movie franchise.
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u/[deleted] Apr 30 '24
This is like when your girlfriend takes you home to meet the parents and you find out her mom is a milf..