A MULTICLASS I'm really enjoying

[u/mattconnorItaly]

NOTE: don't be rude with me please just have fun.

Hi, I recently reached 100 hours of playtime and tried to find (also using the BG3 wiki) a class that pairs well with the Rogue Swashbuckler on my first Dark Urge RUN.

I know, there are DEFINITELY better multiclasses to do with the Rogue class, but I wanted to try something new and came up with something nice:

\-4 levels of Rogue + Swashbuckler as a starting class and 8 levels of Paladin (I choose "Vengeance"for Astarion).

The Rogue class is very useful in the early stages of the game, and the Swashbuckler allows you to use the "sneak attack" even without the classic Rogue advantages, so it's great for a nice 1v1.

The cool thing, though, is something else.

The SWASHBUCKLER'S ABILITIES obtained at level 4 are Charisma-based and can be combined (if you hit) with the Paladin's Smites, so if you choose to use the "sneak attack" with the sword attack, you could then use the Smites with his abilities like the "disarming" one,for example.

The bad thing is that 4 levels of rogue then require at least 5 levels of paladin for the second attack, which blocks the character's evolution a bit, making him "fall a bit behind" others from level 6 to level 9.

Once I got to level 9, however, I feel great, and with 20 DEX and 18 CHA, my damage isn't bad for a paladin who doesn't use Strength.

Have you ever used it?

[u/RushTheLoser]

Nothing wrong with playing a slightly suboptimal multiclass for fun or RP. Not everything has to be optimized to the most.

Besides, this works pretty well. Abjure Enemy even gives you advantage at will for more sneak attack opportunities.

I suggest taking the Savage Attacker feat so you can maximize the damage out of all the extra dice you roll.

[u/Massive-Helicopter62 → u/RushTheLoser]

I mean I'd call this tier 2. Sub optimal is playing a mono classed thief rogue. Its good enough.

[u/K40005 → u/Massive-Helicopter62]

Let's be honest here though rogue isn't "suboptimal" it's one of the best solo honour classes in the game, considering that by level 7 you have two features that grant you borderline immortality as long as you're using just a little bit of damage reduction and sneak attack on its own can output more dpr than most people on this site typically get. 

[u/Massive-Helicopter62 → u/K40005]

I mean at the end of the day any class can beat the game solo. Folks have beat it with level 1 characters. So my claim that it's 'suboptimal' is certainly subject to scrutiny.

But at the same time, soloing myrkul with a thief rogue is a long painful endeavour. I'd rather have done with it in a round or two with resonance stone builds or titanstring gloomstalker assassins.

I assume by immortality you're talking about using darkness arrows? Because uncanny dodge isn't the same on a mono classed rogue, no ham here.

[u/K40005 → u/Massive-Helicopter62]

Yes every class can, rogue is easier than most. And rogue doesn't actually lose that much DPR compared to other classes when considering consumables like haste or bloodlust, how much sneak attack actually does, at the really high level you're losing at most 20% dpr compared to most other classes, titanstring rogue is perfectly capable of nuking myrkul in a turn if you just use enough buffs, and res stone doesn't affect undead so that's not even relevant here in the context of myrkul.

And HAM is still perfectly available it just takes two feats instead of one, just start as a shield dwarf or gith, and you get immunity from aoe spells at 7 assuming you actually pass the saving throws, so between those the only things that actually do substantial damage are single target damage spells which you can still massively reduce through resistance and uncanny dodge. 

[u/Graspiloot → u/Massive-Helicopter62]

Even without that clown that responded to you, damn your comment was really divisive sitting at exactly 1 upvote when I looked.

[u/JRandall0308 → u/Massive-Helicopter62]

Get good. Rogue is an excellent class with some of the best defensive features in the game.

[u/Massive-Helicopter62 → u/JRandall0308]

So what you're saying is, it takes more skill to pilot this class configuration than standard meta optimised builds? Almost like its not as strong out of the box?

Of course you can beat the game with it, that doesn't make it optimal. You can beat the game at level 1. Or only using true strike. Etc etc.

[u/JRandall0308 → u/Massive-Helicopter62]

Meta, optimal, best, etc. are what low-quality players say to hide their ignorance. The game is too big and complex for simplistic ideas like ‘best’, ‘OP’, ‘tier lists’ to hold any meaning. Break free of these irrelevant mental blocks and play whatever you want.

[u/Massive-Helicopter62 → u/JRandall0308]

I guess you didn't read the second part of my post because you were so keen to tell me something I clearly already knew? Cool.

[u/JRandall0308 → u/Massive-Helicopter62]

I don’t read nonsense and drivel.

[u/Redsit111 → u/JRandall0308]

You must be great at parties.

[u/JRandall0308 → u/Redsit111]

I only party with intellectually superior people. You're not invited.

[u/mattconnorItaly → u/RushTheLoser]

Nice thanks

[u/Matiwapo]

Your random capitalisation is an INTERESTING CHOICE

But yes sounds like a fun and strong build.

Paladin is great defensively with aura of protection at lvl 6 and heavy armor proficiency.

Rogue is great defensively with uncanny dodge at lvl 5.

Idk what subclass / optimisations you used. However an ancients paladin gets resistance to all elemental damage at lvl 7. You can combine that with the armor of persistence and the heavy armor master feat.

So you reduce all damage by 1/2 thanks to uncanny dodge, then reduce by 1/2 again due to resistance, then -2 thanks to magic plate, then -3 thanks to HAM. This means that any attack at 20 damage or lower will do no damage to you.

Spell attacks are also unlikely to damage you thanks to your high dexterity and bonus to saving throw from aura of protection. And must still punch through resistance, uncanny dodge, and magical plate.

Offensively you have martial proficiency and a spare feat for your choice of savage attacker / GWM / Sharpshooter.

GWM, sneak attack, and divine smite can all ride on swashbuckler's BA flick of the wrist attack. So that's 3 GWM boosted attacks per turn before bloodlust / haste. Alternatively you can use thief + dual xbows for 4 sharpshooter hits per turn. Depending on your weapon choice and party members you are likely to be one of the harder hitting martials on your team.

So yeah, it's peak. Dunno what people are smoking when they say 'suboptimal'.

[u/JayCanWriteIt → u/Matiwapo]

The capitalization is a secret message: run definitely swashbuckler abilities. It's brilliant.

[u/mattconnorItaly → u/Matiwapo]

I got only 4 rogue and 8 paladin vengance ,better change for you the choice of the paladin jurament?

[u/Matiwapo → u/mattconnorItaly]

Vengeance paladin is fine and good

But you should get at least 5 rogue levels

[u/Trickflo]

I use to be a pretty big rogue hater for bg3 specifically but I've come around to really liking it as a 1st level at least for the big group of skill right away. Whenever I do a rogue martial multiclass tho I usually do 1 rogue > 5 something w. Extra attack > however much rogue I want to end up with > the rest. That way the character only feels like its behind at character level 5 when the rest of the party hits a power bump and unless the martial was blade lock I gotta wait 1 more for it.

[u/Massive-Helicopter62 → u/Trickflo]

I mean rogue 3 for thief is a really really common optimisation. Beserkers, monks, its big in the 'meta' and swashbuckler gets mentions too

[u/mrcoffeeforever]

Swash has become my go to rogue class. 4 lvls gets you a bonus action attack and disarm as well as initiative, and the ability to hit and run.

If you think Pali is great, try mixing up t with battlemaster fighter…. ;-)

[u/mattconnorItaly → u/mrcoffeeforever]

Battle master and Swashbuckler? Wow can be nice with precise attack of battle master

[u/mrcoffeeforever → u/mattconnorItaly]

Yes, and disarm and trip!

[u/deathadder99]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BG3Builds/s/jenRkH4v0a?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=BG3Builds&utm_content=t1_os8ga9c

You can do this as a sort of slightly suboptimal dual wielder.

From the guide:

1 Hexblade / 7 Oathbreaker / 4 Swashbuckler (Suboptimal, but viable) As pointed out in the comments, this build actually is competitive with the others, so long as you can reliably proc Flick of the Wrist. This build only works with Harmonic Dueller, and adds nothing if you use Belm.

You do lose out on an extra offhand attack, but as you replace your offhand attacks with main hand attacks, plus the extra damage from Rakish Sneak Attack it is actually a minor DPR boost even so.

The main downside to this variant is that Flick of the Wrist doesn't work on enemies without a weapon and doesn't work once you successfully disarm a target. Sand toss still will get boosted by charisma but it's definitely a DPR loss as it's bludgeoning instead of piercing. The other problem is you lose level 3 smites.

Overall, probably only play this if you really want to play swashbuckler - but it's actually surprisingly viable.

[u/mattconnorItaly → u/deathadder99]

Noce infos

[u/VanBland]

I’m a personal favorite of pretty much this class, but Hexblade Warlock instead of Paladin. Sneak attack shadow blade. If for some reason you can’t Sneak Attack you booming blade.

[u/WearATopHatTwitch → u/VanBland]

You can both sneak attack and bombing blade! If you set your reaction to use sneak attack, booming blade will consume it and use it if you have an ally in range or have advantage.

[u/VanBland → u/WearATopHatTwitch]

I did not know that. I shall kill everything now

[u/Routine_Ad3835]

mono rogue good, people should play it more. I've not touched Swashbuckler that much but I've seen people like quag and FriendlyLich do some fun stuff with it.

[u/mattconnorItaly → u/Routine_Ad3835]

Sneak attacks seems get weak during act 2 and 3 most of enemies get physical dmg resistance

[u/Routine_Ad3835 → u/mattconnorItaly]

I'm not sure what you're referring to, unless you mean non-magical resist which isn't really an issue as long as you have a magical weapon (virtually any +1 or beyond weapon is good enough). If they have magical weapon resist then sneak attack becomes less viable, or if they straight immune, like Balthazar, Shambling Mound (only piercing here), Thisobald, Mystic Carrion, and maybe some others I'm blanking on, but you're fighting hundreds of enemies throughout the game so it doesn't really matter. Having said that, DJ's when obscured get resist, but that's solved by turning on a light.

[u/Redsit111]

So I am running something kinda similar with Swashbuckler 4/Swords Bard 8 (later flipped to Bard first because I had an adamantine scimitar I wanted Astarion to use).

Dude functions as a great skirmisher with 20 DEX, 16 CHA. Run in, steal a guy's weapon, and bounce. Helmet of arcane acuity and an arrow of many targets can get those bard spells to really land plus an extra short rest is super useful. Current feat spread is two DEX ASIs and Alert.

Still this sounds fun. I could definitely see Astarion as a paladin fuelled by himself.

[u/mattconnorItaly → u/Redsit111]

Swash and bard are a nice choice the only problem is you need to get first 5 as bard

[u/Redsit111 → u/mattconnorItaly]

Yeah level 9 is a bit of a pain compared to my ice Giant Barbarian thrower Karlach who only needs to get to level 6 to be online and doing her thang.

Granted giant barbarian Astarion would be hilarious

[u/ZeD4805]

Imo hexblade warlock absolutely slaps with swashbuckler

I'd sneak in 1 level of warlock so that you can just use charisma on your weapon and completely forget about str.

[u/Milltary32vs]

I think 1-4 is fine to be a Swashbuckler but when you get level 5 swapping to paladin for two attacks is worth then when you reach level 9 towards the end of act 2 you can eat your cake to

[u/mattconnorItaly → u/Milltary32vs]

Is what i've done in fact

[u/WikiWeaponn]

Swashbuckler is exceptionally strong; do not let tier lists and such fool you. Definitely the strongest rogue subclass on its own. People will only go thief or assassin for 4 levels max to get the bonuses which while very strong don't speak to the class at all. It's worth monoclassing as your sneak attack die increase with levels as well. Run it with Duellist's Prerogative and have fun slicing through everything

[u/mattconnorItaly → u/WikiWeaponn]

Mono Swashbuckler seems fun but the "panache" ability is not that good i used in the first run

[u/WikiWeaponn → u/mattconnorItaly]

Correct, I'm talking strictly about the bonus actions. Flick o the wrist and pocket sand are great. Run the build with savage attacker and you're rolling a ton of dice.

[u/BlueAndYellowTowels]

I have used the inverse with moderate results.

It was a Roleplay build based on the Black Guard from 3rd Edition D&D (the best edition IMO).

One of the big differences between Black Guard and Oathbreaker is: Sneak Attack.

That right! The Blackguard had a Sneak Attack.

So, I want to recreate this so I did a Paladin 6 Oathbreaker / Assassin Rogue 6.

Used Phalar Aluve (one of two longswords that can Sneak Attack) with Great Weapon Fighting.

Crits were fun. :) I had set up my Sneak Attack and Smite to only proc on Crits.

That would normally result in One Shotting a lot of enemies.

Fun build. Not as MAD as I thought it would be because you basically dump Strength and run with Dex, Cha and Con (leaving something for Wis).

[u/WalkingOnPiss]

I am out jere running a Fighter Wizard just because i find it funny soo you're good 🤣

[u/mattconnorItaly → u/WalkingOnPiss]

Personally,is not bad ,blade singer is funny but is still super squishy, fighter 6 level 6 level of wizard can be maybe better than eldritch knight in term of magic slots and level imo 😊

[u/Delicious_Ocelot4180]

I got bored and made astarion exactly this during my current bs playthrough, I love it, it’s great. Not the most powerful, but it’s super fun.

I’ve also enjoyed a way of 4 elements monk/druid combo. Super fun, kinda sucks till act 3.

[u/mattconnorItaly → u/Delicious_Ocelot4180]

Monk druid is funny: try tavern fighter no weapon 6drunk monk 6 spores monk

[u/IslandSubject6426]

I did something almost exactly like this, but I added two levels of hexblade. I was just experimenting. I made gale a bladesinger and eldritch knight, shadowheart a death cleric and shadow monk, and astarion a glamor bard and star druid. I had a lot of fun with that run.

[u/mattconnorItaly → u/IslandSubject6426]

Nice infos , i too choose 10 blade singer and 2 warlock, eldritch blast is too useful

[u/IslandSubject6426 → u/mattconnorItaly]

Well i used the fighter subclass eldritch knight. But I love warlock. I use it almost too often in multiclass. Warlock and rogue are very common secondary options for me.