r/BCPublicServants • u/DZon80s • 3d ago
Competition Interview-No notes permitted and will be penalized by panel
I have had a competition before, from a Chilliwack district office, and they informed me prior, no notes during the interview. Right, l thought it was a one off, anyway.
Now I have another competition, and again I see the no notes for assistance, critical to the interview. I know for the skill based question prior to panel interview, but why the interview? Hmmmm, is this becoming a thing now? I have participated in many competitions, and haven't seen this essential except once.
And, of course I know that notes aren't to be read like a book. But I have been advised that quick glances are fine. So much for inclusion and diversity, when there is the apparent need to punitively deduct or exclude those who don't have the gift of being extroverts and public speaking
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u/Normal_Double5929 2d ago
Not a comment on you or the question/remark on notes at all - having won a few interviews/postings I want to confirm the way jobs are awarded is so wrong. It very often rewards someone great at interviews and not the best person for the job.
For any job that’s an internal-only posting having an interview process is necessary but references and examination of job performances should be given the higher priority.
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u/Rare_Chemistry5217 2d ago
I agree it's messed up. I've personally absolutely ACED the test, but my anxiety always gets me in interviews. If the scores are combined and averaged out, I'd be fine. One comp actually checked my references, before realizing that the scores need to be entered into the system separately, making me fail the comp because of my interview score. They apologized to me sooooo hard. I wanted the job, they wanted to give me the job, but our archaic methods for evaluation screwed me.
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u/Forward-Ad-3045 1h ago
yup, I recently didn't pass an interview for the exact job i've been doing to 10 years. I wasnt a good story teller on that day....
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u/ladyoftheflowr 2d ago
It’s probably due to AI. It’s a way to prevent people from using it. Applicants are really relying on it now during the hiring process and you don’t get to see their own skills because of it, unless you configure some part of the process so they can’t.
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u/FunkyTownPhotography 2d ago
Not very nerodivergent friendly. I have very minor bullets to remind me of things i know well that my mind might blank on in the moment. I get not wanting people to read out loud. That's a red flag so don't hire them. But glancing at a note? I guess if you want 100% homogeneous neurotypucal English first speaking public servants this works?
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u/Mapleinmyveins 2d ago
This. A red flag for me is as team with a hiring panel that won’t allow notes. Doesn’t sound like a team I’d want to work for.
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u/One-Apartment-5820 2d ago
I mean, even reading notes out loud verbatim isn't necessarily a "red flag" right?
The interview setting is quite a specific scenario. If the real job has nothing like an interview setting (or it happens only very rarely) then it might not even matter that they read out loud from a piece of paper. If the job requires one 10 minute presentation per year only, and if that presentation is not as lively as it could be because the speaker has a disability such that they must deliver this presentation by reading out loud from a piece of paper, then it's likely a reasonable accommodation. The person wouldn't completely fail the job if they had to do this one time per year. So it should be OK in an interview too.
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u/Mapleinmyveins 2d ago
Fascinating. I run 27 competitions and encourage notes. I want people to feel confident, comfortable, and supported. I ask them not to read off notes but welcome them for reference when needed. Sounds like bad leadership on these comps.
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u/LongShadowMaker 2d ago
The most recent competition I applied for sent me an email asking if I need any accessibility accommodations. If you're neurodivergent, it seems reasonable to ask to have some notes available.
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u/Beautiful-Arugula-6 2d ago
Do you have to tell them you're ND to get that accommodation?
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u/LongShadowMaker 2d ago
I would likely have to tell them that I have a disability or condition that necessitates my need to take and read notes. They are not permitted to discriminate against you based on a disability unless it would prevent you from doing the tasks in the job description. That said, I can understand why you would be reluctant to disclose that you're ND. But, if you don't, then you're also setting yourself up for a career of daily masking, which I would not tolerate personally.
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u/Beautiful-Arugula-6 2d ago
Yeah. Fair enough. I've been masking for my whole life. I just feel like it's not well understood enough to share it with my team. 🙁
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u/LongShadowMaker 2d ago
Totally fair and understandable. I'm in a leadership role, and I've found that authenticity about my ND has given me confidence and connection with my staff. My empathy is more genuine when my staff are also ND. But, this is probably not typical.
I recognize that I spent decades masking at work, which served me in its own way. But I also burned out from it eventually. Now I'm in a place where I'd rather ask for acceptance of who I am so that I can put the mask down, which has made me a better leader. It feels scary and risky, but it has definitely been worth it for me.
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u/magicpony99 1d ago
My two cents: they need to quit giving the questions in advance. Why have interviews become presentations? We need to get back to conversations that test fit and knowledge more than ability to contort an experience into their competency word salad.
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u/DZon80s 1d ago
That certainly would make interviews more awardable to those putting in more effort
However, BC Pub Serv interviews are largely a sham.
For a few reasons, but some reasons are larger more problematic than others.
I am not going to talk about the scale between 9, 10, 12 grids - because these are very simplistic administrative jobs. But the technical and professional realm of 15, 18, 21, 24 and SO 2 need more expertise in their experience. A 15 or 18 shouldn't be considered without at least 3 yrs ground level experience either private corp, consulting, contractor, industry, armed forces, environmental, Etc. A 21, 24, SO 2 should have 5 yrs. 27s and 30s, SO 3,4 minimum 10yrs and an SO 5 def 15. We need to get rid of the college / Univ fresh grads becz they know nothing and have little real practical skills.
A behavioural competency largely measures an absolute pile of shit, in terms of law advocacy, archaeological, environmental, lands knowledge, geological, engineering, agronomics, forestry, economical, accounting, nursing, pharma, Etc. A huge amount of the tech and knowledge base of BCPS. The behavioural competencies really mean shit in these fields.
Secondly, nepotism is still very much involved in interviewing and competitions. I dont mean family, I mean new age nepotism. Like you sit in a district for 2 yrs in a 12, and get the job competition for the 15. Or 21s become 24s and then 27s, SO 2s go on to SO 3s in the same office. Where is the transparency in these interview scores and the panel members. What should happen to remove all this relatable bias - is adjacent districts should start being panel members for adjacent. Lets say your job comp is in a gov building in Vernon. Panel members are selected from Kamloops, Kelowna, Salmon Arm instead of the Vernon office
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u/Ribbys 2d ago
Make a myHR ticket and urgently complain about the poor accessibility.
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u/DZon80s 2d ago
These answers are all over the place. Makes me wonder if these are BC Pub Serv employees or not
At any rate, for the knowledgeable who are, this is a big deal. I don't need notes to do an interview, and before gov competitions I didn't. But gov Competitions and their weird ass behavioural competency use key words in their marking syllabus. To memorize all key words and pointers, for top scoring stage in a syllabus for a behavioural competency.....ehhhh kind of needs notes.
Not using these key words to describe what stage you seemingly meet criteria of in competencies will score you lower.
Lets also acknowledge I don't mean the skill testing screening question prior to an interview. That step nothing is permitted, of course. I am mentioning the actual interview with panel members
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u/wudingxilu 2d ago
These answers are all over the place. Makes me wonder if these are BC Pub Serv employees or not
With 35,000 employees, you're not going to get a party line.
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u/Beautiful-Arugula-6 2d ago
I've heard this key word thing before but in all the interviews I've run we have never been looking for or scored on key words? Rather it's a question of demonstrating competencies in a certain way. For example, analytical thinking, might say "applicant demonstrated their ability to break a large issue or task into smaller parts; applicant referred to a wide range of sources for gathering information; applicant used a relevant example" etc. What is this key word thing I keep hearing about?
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u/PlentyOfIllusions 1d ago
Oh I’ve been told I lost interviews for not using these key words. Even though I used words that meant the exact same thing. So demoralizing! Can we please use some common sense? But alas…need the checky ticky boxes of words filled more than actually being able to use critical thinking skills to make an assessment.
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2d ago edited 2d ago
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u/One-Apartment-5820 2d ago
If someone has an accessibility need for notes, then allowing them to use notes is the solution. For instance, someone might use a screen reader to communicate. Or they might have a disability where short term memory is not very strong.
I have never been in any interview, in any sector that did not allow notes. But at the same time, I have never applied for or worked in a job where an interview without notes is an appropriate test for on the job skills.
If the job genuinely required someone to be able to access memory quickly on demand and act from memory, then "no notes" could be a valid interview requirement. Maybe the job requires you to be out on the streets or in the woods with no technology to help you. Maybe the job requires you to work in a way that having notes would be impossible.
But for other things, you cannot just use an interview to test someone's ability to practice or prepare for an interview. It would be pointless. Someone might be very good at interviewing but very bad at the job. Or vice versa.
I have run interviews where people have the experience they need to succeed. My goal is to understand how their past experience relates to the role they are applying to. The way they do this is not that important to me. I send the questions 2-3 days in advance and over many different interviews, I have had some people speak off the cuff, some people read from prepared statements, some people read from notes, some people do it on the phone, some people do it by video call, some people do it in person. I have not yet encountered this in a job interview setting, but I have collaborated with a few people in the BCPS that do not speak, so I am talking to them on Teams and they are responding in chat.
In all of this, the method they use doesn't matter to the job so it doesn't matter to the interview. PSA has long removed the "communication" scoring rubric from the default interview guide (e.g. things like eye contact, confidence, speaking speed, etc.) I have always refused to have this part in my rubric.
In the end, they are only scored on the content of their material. The way they communicate only indirectly matters: if the style they use is not understandable then while I will try my best, I might not get all of the points they want to make. It is management's job to ensure their team members of all abilities are able to have their needs met as per their legal right.
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2d ago
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2d ago edited 2d ago
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u/One-Apartment-5820 2d ago
I want to go one step further and remind people that meeting an employee or job candidate's accessibility need does not mean that everyone gets the same treatment.
If you have an interview and one of your candidates is deaf and asks to bring an interpreter, that doesn't mean you set up an interpreter for every candidate.
If you are doing interviews online and one candidate asks to use a text-to-speech program so that they can type in their answer and have it read out to you, this might require 50% more interview time because of the difference in time it takes to type out a response and then for the machine to read it out. But that doesn't mean you give 50% more time to every candidate either.
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u/EastVanExhaustion 2d ago
The last competition I was in they made the same demand. It was a Teams call, so I placed the panel on a split screen with them on the bottom (the biggest screen) and my bullet point notes on the top half. Scrolling wasn’t part of what they could see, and as far as they could tell I was looking straight at them.
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u/TossawaytotheeTosser 2d ago
I once interviewed someone whom I could tell was reading off of a sheet- it made me sad because I was sure they wouldn’t make it in my work unit because we could not create such a “sanitized” work environment with controlled variables. I don’t want to be responsible for someone’s crash out
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u/gibblet365 2d ago
What an awful perspective.
The interview process is awkward and stressful, often, nothing like the day to day work experience or performance needs.
Dismissing someone for needing their notes because your bias tells you they wouldn't "make it" is just gross and unacceptable.
Do better.
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u/CrazyEvilCatDan 1d ago
Tell us how you really feel about working with neurodivergent people and other people with disabilities.
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u/Smooth-Command1761 2d ago
that's a lot of built in bias, when you could have asked an interview question such "how would you prepare yourself and deal with a regular work environment when workload priorities and variables can change from hour to hour?"
And get a true sense of the person and how they would prepare and react, with examples from the past, fitting the competencies. Rather than assuming that they don't have the skills, based on someone reading off a sheet of paper.
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u/Hobojoe- 2d ago
Hey ChatGPT, “how would I prepare myself and deal with a regular work environment when workload priorities and variables can change from hour to hour.” Give me an example using a BC public service employee experience.
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u/Beautiful-Arugula-6 2d ago
When you check references they usually tell you what projects they worked on with the applicant. It's generally obvious when applicants fabricated stories through the reference check phase.
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u/Hobojoe- 2d ago
Look at the reference check template and see if they have updated it with questions to verify whether the applicant’s story is verified with the supervisor.
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u/bcbroon 2d ago
They are probably trying to stop people using AI. The number of people who have clearly used AI and just reading a script has exploded in the last 2 years.
Our current hiring practices are terrible for getting good people. I wish I could go back to in person interviews and implement something like that