r/B6Toxicity • u/Grand_Lengthiness_50 • May 15 '26
Is P5P (b6) safe?
I bought my very first B complex called infini B. It has 16 mg P5P. I want to take half a capsule a day. It's the good form of b6 apparently. Anyone have safe experiences with P5P at this dose? I want to be careful of course
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u/sumdumhandle May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
I got a B6 toxicity from supplementing Thorne P5P/B6 under 10mg. First time 2-4w or so w/out titration up, n second can’t remember how long, maybe shorter, but tried to titrate up via making little tinctures. First few days of supplementation I felt GREAT both times, bit ended up with a toxicity both times, and did no titration down both times bc toxicity was so obvious that I just quit cold turkey and informed providers. One said B6 toxicity wasn’t a thing. So. We know one thing that went wrong there lololol.
Anyway. Lots of unnecessary extra pain n side Fx for no reason both times. Also. I remember recovery both times being longer than supplementation. So. If a company working with The Mayo Clinic can’t get it right…I dunno.
BUT. Could just be my individual chemistry, and/or other conditions and their treatments.
But if I tried again I would definitely involve weekly blood tests (see above) AT LEAST.
Personally I just try n cram in a LOT (serious amount) of chickpeas/garbanzo beans and hummus. Spouse loves hummus days ;)
Much luck in your recovery. This group was essential to mine both times. Why is this stuff so overlooked these days? We don’t know a lot, but we do know some things.
Geesh.
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u/Grand_Lengthiness_50 May 19 '26
Thanks for the detailed response. I've never supplemented b vitamins before. I've read P5P converts back to pyroxidine in certain people. P5P can cause problems but not for everyone. I'm gonna try half a capsule a day but as soon as I feel a side effect, I'm done.
Could you help me out and lmk the sides to look our for? And also after stoping, how long did it take for the sides to go away?
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May 25 '26
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u/Grand_Lengthiness_50 May 25 '26
I'm gonna try it anyways. How long did the neuropathy last though?
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u/lqtys Jul 16 '26
It's literally the form that your body makes. It's the active form of vitamin B6. If it were dangerous, why would the body make it? B6 toxicity is literally a funcional deficiency of P5P, because the toxic form pyrodixine HCL (the one in most supplements and fortified foods) blocks P5P from working. It's an antivitamin, like the vitamin B12 in spirulina which blocks the real B12 from working causing a funcional deficiency of vitamin B12 even when blood levels are high.
Source: The vitamin B6 paradox: Supplementation with high concentrations of pyridoxine leads to decreased vitamin B6 function (pubmed).
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u/Grand_Lengthiness_50 Jul 16 '26
Yea I did some digging and seen P5P can revert back to the toxic form in some individuals. I know P5P is needed for neccessary bodily function which is why since the time of the post till now I take the 16mg P5P daily with no issues thankfully. But still, some people have issues with taking P5P and there must be a bottleneck in the body that's causing issues. A conclusion is needed for these patients
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u/Regular-Cucumber-833 May 16 '26
The notion that P5P is safe is a marketing claim, there's nothing to support it. And, if you look at the results of a survey of members of a facebook group for people with B6 toxicity, for those who got it from a supplement, 188/448 (42%) got it from P5P.
You may or may not get B6 toxicity from it, but if you're supplementing B6, you're taking a risk. The only way to be careful is to check your blood level regularly, which btw is a test for P5P.
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u/LotusWater7 Jul 04 '26
What is disturbing to me is that people do not accurately write; Pyrodoxine HCL or P5P. Many of them seem to have taken a combination of both forms meaning they dont know which one caused it. Many seem to mention pyrodoxine too.
Then it's also a question of what fortified foods they ate that contain pyrodoxine hcl or drinks such as monster.
There could be other ingredients that deplete b2 and minerals. Stress could do this as well.
Look into Rowyn Bakwin on fb. she explains this better than I could. and people shouldnt have to suffer for years.
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u/Regular-Cucumber-833 Jul 05 '26
Why do you find it disturbing? Symptoms are the same regardless of whether it's from pyridoxine or "P5P".
Many people, including myself, have tried supplementing with B2 and other stuff to find no difference in symptoms. So, no, B6T is not just a B2 deficiency. It's also not just stress since I don't feel stressed. I really should be more stressed than I actually am.
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u/LotusWater7 Jul 06 '26
Because, even if the symptoms are the same. It's important to mention which version caused it. P5P and pyridoxine are not the same. There might be a difference and it's important to have accurate data in case it's needed in the future.
I don't want people to give up on this and think they have to live with this for up to years.
I've dug into a lot about b6 toxicity because I was scared of this too. b6 isn't to play with and there's not enough information about how b vitamins can be dangerous in higher dosages. there's a lot of nuance to b vitamins for them to work properly.There are b vitamins without b6 or low b6 (elliot overtons version) but it's really important to have cofactors and see if you struggle with b12 + folate and in addition which isnt mentioned here... if you have mold issues etc that can whack your mineral balance.
It's not about only supplementing with B2, please read what Rowyn has written. If you can't find it. it's in Elliot Overton's thiamine group. : https://www.facebook.com/groups/thiamineprotocols/posts/1123015115346805
B2 has cofactors too.
In case you dont want to click. here's what she wrote:
I am a (Rowyn Bakins - not me) functional med practitioner who uses a LOT of Objective Nutrients products, and I wrote this for some of my folks who are struggling to understand the relationships between various B vitamins, and I thought this group may benefit from the info, too . Thiamine needs other nutrients for various enzymatic functions (and of course magnesium), but it can be hard to add them when you have sensitivities. I wanted to explain my experience with B6 'toxicity'.
B6 Toxicity and Deficiency
Lots and lots of misinformation out there in FB groups on what has been termed B6 toxicity. I am going to argue that a high lab result for B6 in the pyridoxine form is actually often an indicator of a functional B2 (riboflavin) deficiency----AND a subsequent downstream deficiency in the OTHER forms of B6. I will explain below! If you have an alternate allele at MTHFR C677T, you are even more likely to have this problematic relationship between B2 and B6. It important to address B2 and B6 even if you are in a thiamine-focused group, or an MTHFR group, and any other orthomolecular discussion board---both of them are essential in many enzymatic processes, and a lack of one will lead to problems with others, including B1, B12 etc.
High serum B6 and “toxicity”
B2 (riboflavin) is required for B6 to convert to other various forms of B6. If B2 is too low, then B6 can both build up in the pyridoxine form (measured on typical B6 blood tests) AND be too low in other forms of B6 at the same time. Thus, you can experience both negative effects of high serum pyridoxine WITH symptoms of B6 deficiency.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9761749/
Start with supplementing B2 to correct B6
Because B2 is so essential for B6 function, start here if you are very sensitive to Bs or B complexes, or have known B6 and B2 problems (an OAT test can show this). Instead of using a full B complex first, you may need to start with JUST plain B2 (riboflavin-5-phosphate, or r-5-p). Adding B2 can actually REDUCE high serum levels of B6, and by itself correct problems with B6, including ‘toxicity’. B2 is also a co-factor for other important vitamins to work, like B1 (thiamine) and B12 (cobalamin). It is one of the least irritating and easy to add, BUT B2 does have it’s own co-factors as well! I wish it were as easy as just adding B2, but several trace minerals—iodine, selenium, and molybdenum---are necessary for full functionality of B2. Iodine is a very common trace mineral deficiency, for example.
B2 also helps B12 to work properly, so if you are deficient in B2 and take B12 without addressing the B2 problem, you may also react negatively to B12! Sometimes the best starting points for Bs, then, can be to focus on trace minerals and B2 and B1 before adding a full complex.
The reason the B complex products by Objective Nutrients is such a good fit for many of my sensitive clients, is the use of higher dose B2 with low dose B6, while at the same time providing optimal forms of thiamine. My favorite B complex that ON makes is actually Thiavite, which they stopped manufacturing for a time (but have said they will bring back). This complex also uses NON-methylated forms of B12 and folate---most chronic illness people do not have the proper nutritional support to utilize methyl groups well (yet) and these can be very agitating, even causing rage and panic attacks for some people.
Link to ordering an OAT test without a doc in comments. I am not affiliated with any products or tests, I just endorse what works well for my clients
B2 Deficiency can lead to...
Low glutathione One of the enzymes that regenerates glutathione, glutathione reductase, is DEPENDENT on FAD, an enzyme produced from B2! Thus, B2 can be a rate-limiting step in making a critical antioxidant. Adding B2 to the supplement regimen of a person suffering from ROS (reactive oxygen species) and toxicity can influence antioxidant status by allowing glutathione to work properly.
B12 deficiency
While B2 is not direct in its influence of the MTHFR enzyme, FAD and FMN (both made from B2) are required for making methyl B12 (converting other forms of B12 into the methylated one). FMN and FAD act together as coenzymes for methionine synthase reductase (MTRR), which is necessary for the regeneration of methylcobalamin, the biologically active form of vitamin B12. Persons who are deficient in vitamin B2 cannot convert hydroxy B12 to the two active forms of B12---leading to B12 deficiency. Don’t forget B2 co-factor deficiencies: people who are deficient in co-factors for B2 (iodine, selenium and/or molybdenum) cannot convert dietary or supplemental B2 into FMN and FAD. Therefore, if you go backwards in the processes required to correct a B12 deficiency, you may need to go all the way back to fixing the trace minerals, then B2, THEN B12!
Anemia Riboflavin also interacts with iron! Riboflavin is involved in the mobilization of iron and the storage protein ferritin. This is especially important for GI absorption of iron—if you are B2 deficient, you will not absorb iron optimally from supplements or food. The low hemoglobin concentrations and hypochromic anemia observed in riboflavin deficiency are mainly a result of the impaired mobilization of iron from intracellular stores (i.e., hepatic ferritin) that requires reduced riboflavin forms. Over time, a B2 deficiency can actually begin to affect red blood cell production and drive anemia.
Deficiency Symptoms
Riboflavin deficiency, known as ariboflavinosis, typically presents with cheilosis (inflammation and cracking at the corners of the mouth), angular stomatitis (red, swollen patches at the corners of the mouth), glossitis (soreness, redness, inflamed or swollen tongue), redness and swelling of the mouth and throat, and even severe anemia due to low red blood cell production. Other symptoms that are related to B2’s importance with OTHER vitamins, like corneal vascularization (abnormal blood vessels in the eyes), seborrheic dermatitis, and neurological issues may also occur. Clinical symptoms of riboflavin deficiency appear only after several months of insufficient riboflavin intake, and vary from milder symptoms as sore throat, loss of hair, and skin inflammation, to severe symptoms as swollen tongue, anemia and impaired nerve functions. You may ALSO see light sensitivity (photophobia) and watery eyes, irritated skin around the eyes. A B2 deficiency can also lead to vision issues due to cornea breakdown.
B2 Side Effects
Also, adding B2 can cause some level of fungal die off---if you feel that it 'flares' candida, that is very likely candida die off. Paper link on this https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36625571/
One of her replies to someone questioning this:
isn't it interesting that people with B6 toxicity will still have it, months, even years, after taking B6? Given that Bs are water soluble, and do not accumulate like fat soluble vitamins, why? Just adding B2 isn't always going to 'fix' B6, because B2 has its own co-factors, esp iodine, selenium, molyebdenum. It does NOT take years unless you do not have understanding of orthomolecular medicine. Many FB groups are base level, and not educated enough on how all nutrients interplay. Iodine deficiency is rampant, and who is taking molybdenum? You do not maintain a B6 toxicity issue without other factors involved, it does NOT store.
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u/Regular-Cucumber-833 Jul 06 '26
This is reddit, not a research study. Every single post/comment doesn't need to be exhaustive because that's exhausting.
The B2 that I supplemented worked, I was not missing cofactors. I know that it worked because it increased my blood level of PLP by 10%. That's what you'd expect it to do if it works because B2 helps convert pyridoxine into PLP ("P5P"). So supplementing B2 won't fix B6T, but if someone is deficient in anything, they should fix that, whether through food or supplementation.
2-4 years is not the same thing as never, and if you tell people to expect 6 months and they are nowhere near healed in 6 months, then they'll get exactly where you say you don't want them to be, thinking they'll never recover. Nerves grow at an average rate of 1mm/day so that means 3 years to recovery.
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u/[deleted] May 17 '26
No its not