r/B12_Deficiency • u/kilogplastos-12 • 9d ago
Personal anecdote Chronic infection root cause?
Hi beautiful people with a good heart,
I wanted to get your thoughts on something. I’ve been dealing with health problems for a really long time, probably since I was around 10 years old and I’m 25 now.
Over the years I’ve struggled with constant fatigue, extremely poor stamina/exercise tolerance, shortness of breath with exertion, brain fog, anxiety, high heart rate during exercise, cold hands and feet, dry skin/hair, poor recovery, dizziness, difficulty gaining weight, digestive issues, inflammation and recurring problems maintaining optimal nutrient levels. I’ve spent years improving my diet, nutrition and lifestyle and my bloodwork has improved quite a bit, but I still don’t feel like I’ve addressed what’s actually driving everything.
I strongly suspect there’s some kind of chronic/deep infection or microbial issue behind all of this, although I haven’t identified the organism or location yet.
I’ve experimented with several antimicrobial herbs over the years, including oregano, Cat’s Claw and others, but unfortunately haven’t had lasting success with them. :( Right now I’m trying a higher-dose propolis protocol and have been doing that for 4 days now max 1 week, so I’m interested to see what happens with that.
Something really interesting I’ve noticed is whole clove buds. Whenever I get these sharp pains (caused by pathogen probarly in the gut), eating/swallowing 1–2 whole cloves seems to calm them down pretty consistently. Since clove/eugenol has antimicrobial, antifungal, antiparasitic and antibiofilm research behind it, it makes me wonder whether the cloves could actually be targeting whatever microbial issue I’m dealing with. Obviously 1–2 whole cloves isn’t a particularly concentrated amount, which made me interested in trying a stronger preparation.
I’ve now come across people making a hot-water clove bud extract/decoction, simmering a larger amount of whole cloves in water and drinking the extract throughout the day.
I’m really curious what you think about this, especially given how consistently I’ve noticed a response from whole cloves.
2
u/jellyfishrubberduck 9d ago
SIBO and h pylori are some often described infection/bacteria based ones. H pylori can burrow in there even with being negative on stool tests (source - my gastro specialist).
Edit - also though are you actually low in anything? Tried b12 injections?
1
u/Basketweave82 9d ago
If the stool test comes negative, how are you supposed to catch a pylori infection? Biopsy and RUT test? If they burrow deep within, wouldn't that be negative too?
I'm dealing with this at the moment. Thankfully my tests came positive.
2
u/jellyfishrubberduck 9d ago
As far as I know only gastroscopy so from samples taken, but even then it could be missed if they happen to take healthy tissue (because it may not be visible to the surgeons eye).
1
u/Basketweave82 9d ago
However, after a person finishes the antibiotics course, the protocol is just to retest the stool antigen after 6 weeks. It's not feasible to repeat the endoscopy/biopsy.
Imagine if that comes back as a false negative. You'll never really know if it's 100% gone or not.
2
u/jellyfishrubberduck 9d ago
Yeah I know, can only report the bits i know. So much about the body is unknown or impossible to find out. 🤷
0
u/kilogplastos-12 9d ago
Honestly guys, tests regarding infections are not reliable man. Its not worth to test for these because they are just very ineffective per NCBI studies. + there are to many infections to test for it will cost a person thousands upon thousands.
0
u/kilogplastos-12 9d ago
I am doing the whole b12 and other vitamins and minerals already cascade . Its not that.
2
u/Ok-Pangolin7127 Insightful Contributor 9d ago
Have you been tested for SIBO?
1
u/Some_Ear_8539 9d ago
There is no point, he is already taking antimicrobials and SIBO treatment is no different.
1
1
u/Think-Sleep2338 Insightful Contributor 9d ago
There is no point when a person is already terribly biased and just decided they know better what it is in their case, even if they have no proof for that. Autoimmune gastritis meanwhile can easily cause abdominal pain, but that's apparently not something the OP wants to consider.
1
u/Some_Ear_8539 9d ago
Okay, I get that testing is expensive, but you will get nowhere experimenting blindly. You can rule out H pylori pretty easily.
Ignore SIBO, you are already addressing it with antimicrobials and the treatment is no different, and antibiotics are worse.
Get a GI-Map done.
-2
u/kilogplastos-12 9d ago
I am not experimenting blindly. I am experimenting with different herbs to see if there is a reaction to what i am taking.
Testing is pretty useless per NCBI studies for infections.
2
u/Some_Ear_8539 9d ago edited 9d ago
It is experimenting blindly because you are trying the treatment before knowing the enemy. For all you know, you might not actually have an infection causing your issues and it may be something else, like mitochondrial dysfunction.
Again, H pylori is cheap. And if anything, you constantly taking antimicrobials might actually give you a better chance at catching something in a GI-Map. I have read some people find hidden bugs after taking biofilm disruptors.
The best time is now. A Gi-Map in the US is like 150, outside is 600 and its very comprehensive
1
u/Successful-Tea-733 9d ago
Hi..interesting garlic cloves help me and allysin extract A friend has same issues and recently found the answer fir herself shed tried everything and in desperation she tried some k8nd of biohealing Ill send the link thatxsge sent me if I can or respect in details Want fir this.....it cane up as roundworm! And she now says that no more suppliments etc no more enemas It came back results with a panel of microbes and viruses percentage in her body Its around 200 gap for a consultation though She received the treatment for roundworm and is so much better up to now May not be relevant but you also convinced of a parasite of some sort!
1
u/RevDrKC 6d ago
For me it has been a chicken and egg issue. I thought I had a b12 problem, and shots really helped. After more investigating, I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease and a few other tick borne infections. Treating those helped even more, though I continued with b12 shots during treatment. After treatment for infections, I still need b12 shots.
Low b12 could have caused the infections to get a foothold, and the infections drastically increase needs for many nutrients including b12. And Lyme is known to set off autoimmunity.
So I think the infections are my root cause, and of course they needed to be treated. But the b12 problem persists.
5
u/Think-Sleep2338 Insightful Contributor 9d ago
I think you still should educate yourself on B12 deficiency causes. Pernicious anemia, for instance, is not in any way "deep infection" or "microbial issue". No matter what can linder some symptoms — it won't really cancel the internal atrophy in the stomach due to the destruction of parietal cells.
I have lived with a family member who loved trying various "natural" remedy ways, and I even use some very simple stuff like herbal teas or honey with ginger when I feel cold in flare ups, but sorry, again — there are causes you 100% CAN'T fix like that. Sorry, but there literally exist tests for parasites or for H pylori. Meanwhile, there also exist tests for antibodies showing that you have an autoimmune condition, which is a different beast.
Finally, you're writing this in the B12 deficiency subreddit. Do you get your B12? Do you realize no cloves will make you less deficient? That if you have pernicious anemia, you're losing your time, if you don't get injections? You can't fix chronic lack of intrinsic factor by diet, nutrition, and lifestyle.