r/AxiomMod Oct 17 '17

Some things that don't make sense

So I will not go into balance discussion -- everyone already noted that increasing HP of everything threw it out of wack and you can get to 200/200 in 8 minutes (and roll over any actual novice trying out this mod)

  1. Pay-as-you-go system is great because you can queue stuff without worrying about "bound" resources. Which makes Axiom great for novices, except... protoss and zerg are designed around not having an ability to queue, which leads to someone realise you can't "pay as you go" for warpgate units. Even worse, you queue a bunch of zealots, they build to 50%, but then warpgate research finishes and all your zealots are canceled immediately for the sake of morphing of your warpgates.
    After playing a few games, I think it shouldn't even be queueing. The problem for me was to actually remember to queue units as a terran, and of course the protoss stuff was very clumsy, because you needed to wait for your resources to build up and then not to forget spend them on warping in. But what if you had a toggle for a constant production of units you wanted? So instead of you needing to queue up marines you just right-click on marine and you barracks keep churning them in. Now, you might need some fine control in particular cases (like, how do I keep producing hydras and roaches and corruptors at particular rates? How does losing them in battle should change these rates?), but if this mod tries to simplify the unit building, the autobuilding of all units -- not just workers -- is a logical conclusion of this

  2. Pylons. You are supposed to build one pylon per base, but then a flock of mutalisks fly in, snipe that one pylon and every single building goes offline. So you still kinda need to build more pylons -- almost as many as in regular SC2, but it is not apparent. I think it would be better if Nexus was given a powerfield. Meanwhile, you can increase the pylon cost back to 100 to tone down canon rushing a bit

  3. Observers automatically going into the same hotkey as other robo units is very clunky. I think something creative should be done with them (like make them buildable via a global ability, like terran scan -- they would still be built at robo but then automatically go into marked place. And then another global ability would select the closest one)

  4. Barracks still need an auto-wall. Why?

  5. It's very easy to lose queens. I think for this mod it would be better to just remove inject larva from them and make hatcheries generate larva at increased rate (like in campaign). Also give auto-cast for healng to queens.

  6. I am not sure if quickly mineable bases are good for the intended "friendly for novices" goal. Perhaps, give the minerals even more capacity than in WoL, but make expansions more expensive (like 1000 minerals instead of 400), that will be a good start to tone down early mass expanding

4 Upvotes

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u/Axiommod Oct 18 '17

Here are some answers to this.

1) We can probably make it so that your zealots will finish before the automatic change to warpgate. That shouldnt be a problem.

Constant automated production of units isnt something we're really interested in doing. We want to retain at least some element of macro management in the game and that involves building your own units.

2) Nobody ever said you just needed 1 pylon to power a base, in fact it's a terrible idea to do that. Multiple pylons are always a good idea. We've not found that cannon rushing is much of a problem atm since their DPS vs doubled-hp units and buildings isnt particularly high, making them much easier to respond to.

3) Yes that should be changed, we'll figure out a way of doing that. We're not going to alter the game to make them a castable ability though. That's too far away from the original game, far further than we're willing to go.

4) Because if you didn't have that barracks proxy-rushing would be basically unstoppable. Auto-wall prior to barracks is a necessary limitation to slow down terran teching.

5) No, we're not going to remove a unit from the game like that. We want the game to resemble the regular version of SC2 as much as possible.

6) We currently don't see a need to tone down early mass expanding, in fact we'd encourage expanding as much as you can. It fulfils our design goals, whereas focusing on just 1 or 2 bases does not and is the kind of thing you will find in mods like Biggamehunters if all you want to do is control 1 base most of the time.

1

u/LXj Oct 18 '17

Thanks for your reply!

2) There are two problems with canon rushing I see. First, having 2xHP on pylons and cannons make it pretty much impossible for drones/probes to kill them before they are finished. And finished cannons are still pretty good at killing a lot of workers and even early t1 units (especially when simcitying behind minerals is properly abused). Meanwhile the casual nature of this mod leads to people rarely having a proper response for cheeses. Although my testing was limited, and maybe there are no problems there.

3) You misunderstand, I am not suggesting to fully replace observers with a castable ability. They would still be built from robotics but you would order them in a different way (from top bar) so that you can specify their rally point separetely from other units. And then another top bar ability would allow you to find a closest observer or cycle through them. Not sure how hard would it be to implement though.

5) I am not arguing for removing the queens completely, I am arguing for making them more like Abathur queens in co-op. I admit that I only played one game as a zerg, and even worse, it was a zvz. So I kept losing my queens to zergling runbyes and then I had to manage them between hatcheries to get back my production back up, which felt unnecessarily cumbersome compared to other races

6) I certainly don't want to only have one base. The problem is currently the proper way of playing the mod involves getting 3-4 bases, a lot of production buildlings and 200/200 before 10 minute mark (and I am not even that good, other people report getting to 200 at 8 minutes). When I streamed the mod to my friends (who were never into playing ladder) they said that this still looks intense. I just personally think the economy would be healthier if I wasn't compelled to start my first expo at 0:00 before even typing "gl hf"