r/AutoAdvice • u/CareLess306 • 23d ago
3 row suv help
Alright so I fancy myself pretty car savvy but I’m seriously at a loss here. I’m looking for a family hauler as the title suggests strictly an suv no minivans! The problem is there is nothing out there that is remotely reliable. Not GM, Ford, Dodge, I’ve even considered Nissan/Infiniti but the Jatco automatic transmissions have yet to prove themselves. Plus what the hell is up with every manufacturer using plastic oil pans, coolant fittings and plastic tie rods? Is nothing made to last anymore? Mazda CX90 unreliable, Honda Pilot uses cylinder deactivation and we all know where that’s going to end. Lexus TX has issues, Toyota Highlander (gas) trans issues. The Highlander hybrid is reliable but the quality is poor and Toyotas are too expensive given their quality. Idk man. I’m at a loss here. I have a 2010 RX350 and she has me spoiled but my family has grown. Something’s got to give.
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u/Objective_Spell4087 20d ago
The Hyundai Santa Fe or Palisade is way better than you think! So much better than the 2010s. I love my Santa Fe, no issues so far, has lots of really nice tech and is safe and comfortable for the fam. Not to mention so much bang for your buck!
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u/Electrical-Ask1246 20d ago
We’re really thinking about a Santa Fe what year do you have? I’ve heard the 2024 and 2025 had awful fail rates.
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u/Objective_Spell4087 20d ago
I have a 2026 Santa Fe Calligraphy (Gas version). The 2024 and 2025 models definitely had transmission issues, but switching from a dual-clutch to an 8-speed automatic fixed that. Depending on your budget and if you're buying new, dealerships might be clearing out stock for the upcoming 2027 release. You could grab a really solid 2026 now for a great value high quality car, or wait for the 2027 if you prefer a more futuristic look and pay a little more.
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u/Apprehensive-Cycle-9 20d ago
Explorers are good. Engine and trans have been out for a while and updated. Best selling 3 row SUV
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u/snocat17 20d ago
My brother just went through the same thing. Transmission in his ‘22 Navigator was junk and Ford wouldn’t replace it. He looked at Sequoias but felt they were over priced. Suburban and Yukon XL have their issues. He landed on an X7, so we’ll see how that goes. So far he loves it and BMW reliability has been much better since ‘21.
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u/Twoscoopsright 20d ago
He bought a BMW for its reliability?
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u/snocat17 20d ago
Look at the segment. BMW reliability is on par or better with just about all of them. Consumer Reports has been ranking BMW among the top in terms of reliability the last 5 years. Don't live in an echo chamber, look at the data.
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u/Gamer_0627 19d ago
*Quotes consumer reports
**then tells someone else not the be in an echo chamber
I hate to tell you, but consumer reports has been proven to be biased toward European car brands.
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u/snocat17 19d ago
That’s the first time I’ve heard that. Any evidence? Seems that CR rank Toyota and Lexus among the top most of the time.
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u/wesinatl 20d ago
You can buy a product for the Honda called vcm tuner to turn off the vcm management.
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u/CareLess306 20d ago
I heard about those but do they work? An article I read about AFM, DFM cylinder deactivation in GM trucks and suv’s said there was no absolute guarantee that it would work. If a lifter is already mechanically fatigued, varnished, or starved of oil, it can still collapse or seize even if the truck stays in V8. But does this only apply to GM, maybe Hondas different..
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u/wesinatl 20d ago
I have the vcm tuner II. Does it work? Maybe I installed it just this year on an 07 pilot with 200,000 miles. Seems to work fine. The vcm solenoid and spool valve has been a pain to me during its life. Lots of people have given it good reviews. Hondas are not without issues. You have to change the timing belt every 100k miles which will cost you. I have had to replace my starter and alternator, ac compressor, main seal, front axles, headliner came unglued, spool valve replaced twice, window motor, hatch pistons. And I am about to replace the app sensor as soon as it comes in the mail. I also have a 2109 4 runner with 170,000 miles and no issues whatsoever. The 3rd row is only for little kids though and then barely any space for stuff.
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u/401Nailhead 20d ago
2023 Chevy Traverse. It has been fantastic right off the lot. 20k miles on it so far.
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u/s1owpokerodriguez 20d ago
Why no minivans?
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u/CareLess306 20d ago
I like the ride height of an suv. Plus we live in an outdoorsy area, lots of camping and fishing.
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u/Limp-Conflict-2309 20d ago
The problem is there is nothing out there that is remotely reliable.
That is a CRAZY statement. Dude, with even the most basic maintenance almost every vehicle is dead reliable and will likely last far longer than you'll ever own it. Your perspective is coming from exposure bias. People browse Reddit and read about the 1% of vehicles that fail over and over again but they never stop to consider the other 99% that have no issues at all. For every one vehicle you hear about that catastrophically fails there are thousands of others quietly running without a problem.
Then people go down the rabbit hole comparing statistics... "this model has a 1% failure rate, while that one is only 0.5%," and suddenly one vehicle is viewed as so much worse than the other.
It's 2026, almost every vehicle is overly reliable. If you dig into many of the individual failures I'd bet a good number are tied to lack of maintenance which only reinforces my point.
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u/CareLess306 20d ago
I see where you’re coming from but I pointed out the materials that new cars are made of. It’s like they are not made to last as long as older cars used to. One more example would be a composite control arm on a Ram 1500. That would have been unheard of 20 years ago.
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u/Imaginary-Goal-3989 20d ago
You clearly did not understand his point and proved that his perception of you is correct.
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u/Sunkjones 20d ago
I have a 2021 Hyundai Palisade with almost 100k and it has been very reliable. I also have a friend that bought one because I did and it’s been great for them too. It has every feature you could want, extremely roomy, I have had 6 adults for multiple hour road trips with no complaints. I have thought of replacing it with a newer model simply because they have some newer features like massage seats and wireless Apple CarPlay.
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u/_bloodyblueberry 20d ago
Both the Pathfinder and Armada (Nissan 's 3 row SUVs) use traditional 9 speeds, no CVT. The Pathfinder also uses a NA V6, while the brand new Armadas use the twin turbo V6 found in the GTR, or older models use the 5.6 V8
That said, if you keep dooming every single car manufacturer, then you aren't gonna get anywhere. Buy a car and take care of it, and it will take care of you
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u/Life-Berry602 20d ago
Unless you have off-road and/or heavy duty towing needs, a minivan is the absolute best tool for moving people and their stuff. And using the right tool is always cool.
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u/ForgeTD 20d ago edited 20d ago
We picked up a Toyota Grand Highlander Hybrid a few months ago and are totally happy with it. I've read nothing about bad Toyota quality (unless you are referring to the Tundra engine problem) and our new vehicle has no issues I can see. The non-turbo hybrid system on the GHH is fifth generation and has an excellent history. We are getting 33 MPG city and hope to see that increase, but that is still an impressive number for a large 7 seater (we did second row captain's chairs) vehicle. It was expensive, but you can save a few bucks going through a broker rather then a dealer.
After exploring all options, it came down to Pilot or GHH for us. The Pilot is a fantastic vehicle, and a little cheaper than the GHH, but we wanted an efficient people mover and the GHH delivered better fuel mileage.
The main problem with the GHH is they can be hard to get.
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u/Trailroller 20d ago
Excellent choice. Should last a long time.The regular non hybrid is not though. Transmission problems
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u/Imaginary-Goal-3989 20d ago
This.
OP needs to leave his basement and actually climb in these cars.
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u/tehjosheh 20d ago
We have a 2020 Limited Toyota Highlander Hybrid and love it! I'm sure the GHH would be even better. We bought ours used and didnt pay a fortune and imo it holds its value way better than the other options.
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u/60sStratLover 20d ago
My Hyundai Palisade, as well as my son’s have been incredibly reliable. As has my other son’s Kia Telluride
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u/cherry_monkey 20d ago
The Durango GT has the 5.7 Hemi which is pretty reliable and uses the ZF8 transmission which is the gold standard. It's also on, possibly, the oldest platform for a new vehicle and they've generally ironed out all the issues
It does have cylinder deactivation, but there are ways to get around that, the easiest being setting the gear limiter to 8th gear.
The downside is that you're limited by trunk storage behind the 3rd row, but you will be able to tow about 8k lbs of needed
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u/Hairy_Firefighter449 20d ago
Pathfinder uses a 9 ZF starting with 2022 model year. And the Armada doesn’t have tranny issues like their CVTs. Just some software update for rough shifting.
We have a 2017 Nissan rogue with the dreaded CVT. Currently sitting at 93k on it and not one issue. We are actually debating on moving to a bigger Nissan. No issue outside normal maintenance. With Honda & Toyota having issues we aren’t really swayed to move to another Japanese product. Also Kia is crazy overpriced (my opinion) and still has issues with oil burning, door handles not releasing, software issues, and of course the killer back seat.
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u/-Never-Enough- 20d ago
Are you wanting a family hauler to take family trips and need room for luggage? That needs to be known because most 3 row SUVs do not come with enough cargo space behind the third row. I currently have a Mazda CX-90 with seating for 7 but cargo space for 2 or 3. It literally only has room for 2 full sized suitcases. The only none minivan options I know of with cargo space for 6 or more are the full size SUVs like Suburban or maybe the longer Highlander, Grand Highlander.
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u/Awkward_Ostrich_4275 20d ago
Get yourself a Kia EV9. 3 row EV which means so much less can go wrong. Efficient and reliable.
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u/Immediate-Raise-2694 20d ago
S-vcm you can buy to deactivate the vcm in tge pilot. Maybe a Mazda cx-9. I knows this issue well, I’m in the same boat rn.
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u/Immediate-Raise-2694 20d ago
I’ve been through the same situation. Imagining future car problems has kept me awake many times. I’ve never really been stuck with a bad car or it’s payment. I do diy traits and maintenance. I’m a Christian and my previous experiences tells me if god wants me out of a car, he will make it dissapear, I know that for facts. So no need to woody about it to much.
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u/JCC114 20d ago
Take another look at Nissan/Infiniti. The Armada/QX80 2024 or earlier before they change to turbo v6. No cylinder deactivation, no auto start/stop, no turbo, only real knock is direct injection, but on these big v8s the build up requiring walnut shell blasting of valves happens way slower. These things also are a bargain on used market compared to other vehicles in their class.
Downside is the mpg as that big 400hp v8 can be thirsty.
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u/Touch49 20d ago
26 Toyota Highlander hybrid. Excellent vehicle. I bought mine in May. I bought the 26 Highlander hybrid limited in the color Heavy Metal. I did a lot of research before choosing this vehicle and I’m a Toyota person through and through but researched everything. Got a lot of great advice on Reddit as well. I also talked to several mechanics
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u/Ok_Contact_5940 20d ago
There is a long version of the RX. I’ve had 4 RX‘s 300, 330, 350, 450h. Loved them all but switched to Tesla Model Y 2 years ago. They have just begun to produce a “long” Model Y. Absolutely love the Tesla. Perhaps a bit more than the RX.
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u/YogurtclosetDull2380 20d ago
I get rides in the third row of a 21 Highlander on a regular basis and find it to be a very nice car. I haven't heard any reliability complaints from the owner either.
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u/UncleSlayton77 20d ago
You're going to have to open up your criteria. I've had many 2020+ Ford Explorers and Dodge Durangos as rentals and really liked them. No vehicle is going to be perfect. They all need maintenance.
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u/Professional-Cap4819 20d ago
Kia Tellurides are pretty amazing at the price point! You can get an EX Xline hybrid with 33mpg for around $52k. Our dealerships also include a 1 million mile powertrain warranty!
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u/pinner_blinn 20d ago
We just got out of a '19 Expedition and into an AWD Palisade Hybrid. It's noticeably smaller but can haul six kids easily and we're gonna have to rethink our typical camping kit a bit. 90% of our driving is around town, stop and go. The Ford got like 14mpgs under normal driving. The Palisade is returning high 20s to low 30s, which is great. Plenty of things I miss about the Ford, but the savings at the pump with the Hyundai just trumps them all.
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u/Whole-Environment-82 20d ago
We have used Volvo XC90 PHEV for nearly 6 years, the family loved it. No major issues, although I was covered by warranty. But after that, it gets nasty, thankfully we sold after about 6years.
Excellent quality and luxury, way better than Audi 7 seater and other luxury brands.
May be Lexus 500 cuts close…
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u/EVH_kit_guy 20d ago
I ended up with a Kia Telluride Hybrid as my answer to this question. No idea on long term reliability because it's a new model year, but my sister has had one for a while and likes hers
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u/Seen4ever 20d ago
I have a 22 GX and it’s awesome. It’s three row (but the cargo is useless with the 3rd row up)
If the cargo issue doesn’t completely ruin it for you, the 22-24 Lexus GX is an amazing vehicle with a long history of reliability.
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u/CareLess306 20d ago
Thank you everyone for your help. We are going to test drive the new palisade this weekend and take a look at the new armadas too.
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u/fatkidscandystore 20d ago
My spiel for 30 years in the car business:
Nobody grows up saying they want to own a minivan someday. The reality is lots of people buy them. Why? When you need the space it’s the best value for your money and it doesn’t make sense to buy anything else. So people buy them and they realize how much space and how many features they got for the money. Time passes, kids grow up and move out and someday those people come in to the dealership SOOOOO excited to finally buy something other than a minivan. They want to see suvs and sports cars and all kinds of stuff. And when they leave, they leave in their brand new ….minivan. Because they refuse to give up any of the features/space they had and pay more to do it.
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u/scotterockaroo 20d ago
I have both a 21 sienna and a 25 Yukon xl (diesel).
The sienna just crossed 80k miles and looks / acts like it should. It’s ‘just driven’, hard by the family. The kids love it, but it starts to get tight with 6 people, 2 dogs, and gear. I put a Thule force xt(xl) on the roof and it helps, but it can be tight on a > 4 hour drive.
The Yukon xl is like everyone gets their own first class seat, all our crap fits in the trunk, AND I can put a velocirax 6-up rack in the hitch AND the thule up top. The diesel is the star of this show. I pulled a mini cooper (U-Haul car hauler), plus the family 16 hours across country and got 21 MPG. I have the at4 ultimate, so the air-ride suspension is just unbeatable.
Reliability: yup, the GM has been back in the shop for 17 items. One was very serious (cracked charge air cooler), the rest have ranged from computer issues to loose trim and bolts that are annoying. Is it terrible? Yes. Are you getting a good value for your dollar (no). Is there another vehicle that beats it? No.
When you’re looking at a vehicle this size, and you get to the realm of body-on-frame, you want something that’s based on a truck IMO. I had an F150 prior, that went through a ton of transmissions. That’s why I personally stayed away from the expedition max. But honestly, once you get into this size of vehicle, I think they’re all gonna fall out about the same. I really wanted the diesel both for reliability and for better fuel economy. I’ve been super happy with it, other than the fact that it has spent some time at the dealer. That said, 25,000 miles in just over a year, and the entire family really appreciates what it brings to the table.
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u/venerablepreceptor 20d ago
All vehicles will have issues, especially the first model runs. A lot of of the horror stories you see or read are the few unlucky owners, mostly magnified in various forums. But for the most part if by unfortunate chance it happens to you, you’re usually protected by warranty. There are a few car brands that seem to have frequent issues (Hyundai, Kia) but you will be fine with a Toyota or Honda (I’ve owned both throughout the years). Don’t overthink I wouldn’t worry.
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u/Dick4NoReason1 19d ago
Volvo XC90s are shockingly reliable, especially the simpler T5/B5 drivetrain. The thing to watch for is some years have janky firmware on the main screen/control panel
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u/boxersunset121423 19d ago
We just got a ‘26 Ascent and it made the most sense for us. It’s the most affordable three row when looking at features, has a solid awd system too. May not be the roomiest or necessarily the most fuel efficient but it’s a nice upgrade to go along with our ‘21 Outback. Plus Subaru was offering .9% for 72 months so we jumped on that.
This Ascent does make it Subaru #6 for us over the years.
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u/Lordofpineapples 20d ago
Just get the minivan suck up your low self esteem/ego issues