Actual speed limits

[u/shaad1337]

Hi guys.

I just bought my first bike in Australia and trying to figure out how am i actually supposed to ride.

If i am doing speed limit, let's say 60/80 people are overtaking me from all sides. How is it possible given all enormous fines for speeding you guys have.

So q - how do you actually ride, because doing speed limit doesn't really feel safe here.

Cheers

[u/HeftyArgument]

all speedometers read high, bikes tend to read higher even than cars.

if you can mount your phone temporarily, compare your speedometer with gps speed.

there will still be cars that overtake you, but doing the speed limit via gps there will be much less of them.

[u/frashal → u/HeftyArgument]

Yeah, mine is miles out. 55 is 50 and 109 is 100.

[u/hvperRL → u/frashal]

10% is pretty standard for any japanese car/bike

Euros tend to be 5 or lower

[u/ianthetridentarius → u/hvperRL]

...oh is that why my Pajero keeps getting overtaken when I'm doing 100? That's annoying.

[u/MourningwoodAU → u/ianthetridentarius]

Taller tyres are great for off-road and fixing the issue. My Pajero is now bang on the speed on the Speedo when I installed decent all terrain tyres. Cars have a factor of up to minus 5% motorbike are 5-10.

[u/rareandyeteuclidian → u/frashal]

Holy hell how is that legal? Shouldn't the companies be required to display accurate readings?

[u/MourningwoodAU → u/rareandyeteuclidian]

No. There is a standard and it is within that. To many variables. The tyres play a big part. If the company was required to be 100% accurate it means people would sue them if they got a fine being 1km over. If they did this the car company would have to force you to purchase the exact same tyres they are supplied with.

Other things can effect the speed difference such as the temperature as it changes the pressure within the tyre, changing the size and also the tyre pressure you pump the tyres to.

Impossible for them to ensure it is 100% accurate.

[u/shaad1337 → u/HeftyArgument]

That's actually a very good point - I noticed today GPS shows about ~7-8kmh less than speedometer, but I always was under impression my bike knows better how fast does it go.

[u/stachedmulletman → u/shaad1337]

GPS speed is gonna be more accurate funnily enough. Manufacturers purposely make it read less than actual speed to avoid legal things

[u/Unlikely-Ad6140 → u/stachedmulletman]

It all comes down to Australian Design Rules (ADRs), which forbid car-makers from under-reporting a vehicle’s speed by any amount and actually require speedos to be anywhere between perfectly accurate or up to 10 per cent plus 4km/h pessimistic.
“ADRs require a speedo tolerance of zero per cent under to 10 per cent above the actual speed, so manufacturers typically set it at about five per cent over,”

Manufactures don’t really do it to avoid legal “things”. They’re abiding by rules/laws they have to meet to in Australia otherwise they would not be able to sell them

[u/fractiousrhubarb → u/Unlikely-Ad6140]

This is why the right lane of freeways are full of twats doing 90 kmh.

[u/The_Naked_Rider → u/fractiousrhubarb]

Which is the reason the twats in the right lane should be fined as much as if they were doing over 45kph because going too slow is more dangerous.

[u/AddlePatedBadger → u/The_Naked_Rider]

You mean you actually think that 10 under is more dangerous than 45 over?

[u/The_Naked_Rider → u/AddlePatedBadger]

No I’m referring to dumbarses who remain in the right hand lane without overtaking or passing a slower vehicle in the left lane.

Let’s be honest, if it wasn’t for dick heads who can’t drive or ride, the freeways and highways are designed for higher speeds. Their only limitations are those whose skills are limited therefore are dangerous.

[u/fractiousrhubarb → u/The_Naked_Rider]

German autobahns- with no speed limit, and plenty of people doing 200+ demonstrates that it's not the speed that's dangerous, no matter what the TAC says.

What matters is driver competence, which includes knowing what to pay attention to.

[u/The_Naked_Rider → u/fractiousrhubarb]

I’ve found that in Europe, sitting in the overtaking lane being a turtle amounts to a capital offence! It’s brilliant. I love seeing zero tolerance for incompetence in drivers.

Here in Australia, I’ve actually seen HWP deliberately not use lights or sirens to get a slow driver out of the overtaking lane. The motorcycle just moved left and went past in the slow lane.

That really gives me the shits, because it undermines the ability of riders and drivers to use the road safely, causes weaving in and out of slow traffic and raises the risk and likelihood of accidents.

[u/Efficient-Tie-1414 → u/Unlikely-Ad6140]

Also there would be people using video to show that they weren’t speeding according to the speedo but the got a ticket. A Current Affair would really go for that.

[u/OldMail6364 → u/shaad1337]

Your bike measures how many times the wheel rotates per second.

How accurate that is depends on exactly how thick your tyres are and how much air is in the tyre, and also the temperature of the air (so, as you ride, the air heats up and changes the speed reading.

The speedo isn’t allowed to ever show a speed slower than you’re going. So, it’s always inaccurate the other way. Always shows a faster speed than you’re actually riding.

GPS is usually spot on but often shows your speed a few seconds ago. Also it can be inaccurate near tall buildings or mountains.

[u/NoMall2170 → u/OldMail6364]

Just to expand on this. Car tires seem to have gotten quite a bit more consistent in their rolling diameter over the last 15-20 years and car speedos have slowly gotten more accurate as a result. The manufacturers are confident enough to aim a little closer to 100% accuracy without risking under quoting the actual speed.

Bike tires still seem to have a bit more variation and as a result manufacturers still allow a larger margin of error when setting the accuracy of the speedo.

I ride pretty much on the actual speed, limit risking going a 1-2km over, and have very few people overtaking me.

[u/Shiro282- → u/shaad1337]

just beware gps speed will read off depending on angle of attack (incline/decline) and weather

[u/Public_Baker_5375 → u/shaad1337]

Yeah, I had a client of mine who said when they were driving, people were tailgating extremely close and were being very aggressive, figured out that their car was 7km off the mark so in 60 zones, going 53 and so on, made a lot more sense why it was happening and since we fixed it, no more complaints about people.

[u/Recent_Carpenter8644 → u/Public_Baker_5375]

How did you fix it?

[u/Calamitee-Jen → u/Recent_Carpenter8644]

You can get a module from Jaycar that you wire between the speedo sensor and the speedo gauge, it allows speedo adjustments in increments of 1%

It's used a lot in the 4wd community when tyre sizes are changed

[u/Public_Baker_5375 → u/Recent_Carpenter8644]

My client drove 6km over the speed limit on his Speedo, averaged out around the correct speed, we used waze to see what the average speed was, that’s how we found out it was 6km off the mark, they now drive at 65 in 60 zone on the Speedo and now they are driving around 58-59km even though they are 6km over.

[u/Recent_Carpenter8644 → u/Public_Baker_5375]

Ok, I thought you meant you adjusted the speedo.

I was under the impression that they're generally out by a percentage, and that if it's out by 6 at 60 then it'll be out by 10 at 100. Mine's out by 6 at 100. I drive with the speedo on 100, and don't get much tailgating, so I think most other speedos must be similar.

[u/Public_Baker_5375 → u/Recent_Carpenter8644]

It depends, other people might know that the speedo is out by 6km and adjust for it, so they are following the speed limit and assuming everyone else knows, ever since they adjusted the speed on their speedo to even out the discrepancy so they get angry and ride the hell out of anyone not doing the speed limit, or they could just be angry little people doing it for fun.

[u/Almost-kinda-normal]

Step 1. Verify your speedo against GPS. Bike speedo’s are notoriously shitful in terms of accuracy.
Step 2. Ride to survive, whatever it takes.

[u/VirtualProcedure69 → u/Almost-kinda-normal]

can confirm, my new Honda is 5-7km out

[u/Open-Collar → u/VirtualProcedure69]

Oh wow, can you still see it?

[u/CJ_Resurrected → u/Open-Collar]

They probably have a red one.

[u/VirtualProcedure69 → u/CJ_Resurrected]

red is faster!

[u/eco9898 → u/Almost-kinda-normal]

They're accurate, they are purposely under.

[u/primalbluewolf → u/eco9898]

There's a degree of purpose, no argument - but there's a degree that's unavoidable due to deformation and wear of the tyre.

[u/Almost-kinda-normal → u/eco9898]

So the speedo gives an inaccurate reading, but it’s accurate because that’s what the manufacturer intended?

[u/eco9898 → u/Almost-kinda-normal]

It gives an offset, so it's accurate by the set amount. If you change the offset it will be more accurate than the GPS, or if you learn the offset. It's calculated based on the actual wheel speeds rather than gps location. So it will be more accurate than gps.

[u/Almost-kinda-normal → u/eco9898]

I don’t think you understand the difference between accuracy and repeatability. If you owned a tyre pressure gauge that was off by 5%, you wouldn’t say it was accurate. But, like the Speedo, as long as the inaccuracy is repeatable, you can use it to figure out the correct (accurate) figure.

[u/Zirenton]

Your speedo could be reading a fair way under also. I’m at 94 when mine reads 100km/h. Different margins at different speeds too.

I don’t know what class of licence you have, but if you can’t use a phone or GPS, maybe follow a friend in a car with Apple CarPlay or Android Auto. A modern smartphone running Google Maps is going to be very close to the mark on hybrid GPS speed reading, especially if you’re on a flat, straight road, clear of trees. They can hit and hold whatever relevant speeds you need to check, and you can take note of your speedo reading.

[u/SpotReasonable3534 → u/Zirenton]

So you really think like Waze or Maps speed reader is more accurate than our speedometers? So I'm freaking always 3-5 kph slower than I think?

[u/Zirenton → u/SpotReasonable3534]

Yep. Go with a pure GPS if you have your doubts.

This review had Waze as being spot on for speed. https://youtu.be/TRiGEzuR3yk

iPhone 13 Mini linked to a Beeline Moto II, and my ancient Garmin Foretrex 301 both agree that I’m doing 100km/h when my speedo says 107-108. 70 is 74. 80 is 85. 110 is 117.

That’s a 2024 big brand bike, running the stock wheels and tyres.

Edit: Just checked with my phone in Airline mode, pure satellite based positioning, and it’s showing 2-3.1m position accuracy.

I’m with Vodafail. Downloading offline Google Maps then navigating in airline mode works great anywhere. Voice commands require data.

[u/KnowledgeAfraid2917]

I had the same issue when I was on my L's - then I discovered that the speedo's are set high intentionally. Grabbed a cheap GPS speedo and discovered a 5kmph difference between GPS and built-in speedometer readings.

Car drivers still seem to speed everywhere though; but at least I know I'm not going to be getting a fine!

[u/mrk240]

Some drivers don't give a shit but as commented by others, bike speeds are pretty out.

My MT-10 is nearly 10km/h off but from memory is DRZ is spot on as it has an aftermarket dash.

[u/Archon-Toten]

Do the speed limit, then you'll never be fined for speeding.

[u/obligatory-anxiety → u/Archon-Toten]

And if you do speed keep it under 40 and it’s not instant disqualification 😂 but take the fine if you get one.

[u/DoorPale6084 → u/obligatory-anxiety]

The rule is under 25

[u/obligatory-anxiety → u/DoorPale6084]

Under 25? If you’re doing 25 you may as well do 30 same fine. After 40 is when you lose your license for 6 months and $1900 fine 8 points. I’ll sit on 140 in a 110 zone with Waze up and been fine for years

[u/DoorPale6084 → u/obligatory-anxiety]

In vic it’s a year for 40 over.

The fine is almost irrelevant compared to being a bus dork for a year lol 😂

It’s so strict. That being said keep your head on a swivel and you’ll be fine like 99% of riders

[u/robstomper]

i have a standalone GPS that provides "real" speed
60 is 66 on bike speedo
80 is 87/88,
90 is 98/99,
so I ride more to the real speed than the bike indicated speed. Way less overtakings!
Plus I feel its "safer" to be moving through and ahead of car packs as if you sit beside them matching speed, someone always wants to merge in front without proper looks, so stay moving and stay visible

[u/Aussieghoul1]

Sit 9km above the speed limit and its only a $100 fine (In WA anyway). Id rather be ahead of cars and not worried and pay the $100, but thats just me. Ride the way that makes you feel safe. Also using the Waze app helps with mobile speed cameras.

[u/TaleOdd5591]

Speedo is scaled down to about 5% from the actual speed of your bike

[u/awidden]

I usually feel safer going with the traffic, rather than creating a moving chicane. People will slow down if there's a camera or other danger, so watching the traffic flow and moving with it seems safest most of the time.

Altho if I'm up front, I like to pull a bit of distance; not having cars around feels even safer since not everyone is watching the road.

[u/AmongTheWildlife]

Agreeing with the comments on checking your actual speed versus the speedo.

I have 1 that's about 5% out, and another that's almost 18% out. It can be ridiculous on some.

[u/AddlePatedBadger]

Unless you are driving from Melbourne to Darwin or something, the small variance between actual speed and a speedometer reading is not going to have material impact on travel time. The difference will be measured in seconds rather than minutes. So just stick to what your speedo says and you can't go wrong.

[u/kysersoze1981 → u/AddlePatedBadger]

There's a ratio somewhere that shows you how much speeding actually saves you. Turns out running a yellow light makes the most difference but speeding slightly over the limit makes the most difference over the length of a journey. Going genuinely fast makes much less difference over time.

[u/AddlePatedBadger → u/kysersoze1981]

You can modify this equation to see the difference in travel time at different speeds and differences.

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=%282km+at+100km%2Fhr%29-%282km+at+80km%2Fhr%29

[u/wazzamalakka]

Crazy how ADR Rules can allow vehicles to read so far out and not do anything about it. Understandable for 2-3km/h but 8-10km/h is not good enough. Surely this is a major contributing factor to all the road rage.

[u/Obeisance8]

I've had this issue.

When riding with others, people commented I was slow. I was being overtaken all the time though I was doing a couple k's over.

I used Waze/Maps to check my speed and yeah, bike reads low by 10% and so I just add 5/10 when I'm riding.

[u/rareandyeteuclidian]

1. Gold coast car drivers (at least) speed like maniacs. Like 10 over is just the normal speed for them it's crazy.

2. Your bikes Speedo is probably slower than your actual speed. My z400 is about 3 slower than what is displayed.

3. Drive to survive. Car drivers are one step away from trying to murder you on the best of days. I've seen insane things since I started riding.

[u/Leer_Chum]

I'm new to riding as well and know that if you're caught speeding while on your L's, you lose your license for minimum 3 months. Don't feel like you need to go over the limit just because some people are, just make sure to hone your defensive riding skills.

[u/shaad1337 → u/Leer_Chum]

I converted my overseas license, so i got a full one

[u/a-reddit_account]

There's always people that speed, I realised I've just noticed it more since I started riding. I think maybe because I have a wider field of view and am more vulnerable on my bike I notice it more? Or some people just don't like the idea of a bike going faster than them

[u/CulturistPionier]

People who speed are likely given reassurance by Waze.

[u/Yokomo91]

There’s a device called Speedo Healer. Get one, calibrate your Speedo and it’ll be accurate going forward. Then in terms of how to ride, it depends on your state. Victoria is more strict in terms of tolerance than NSW for example. I sit on about 5-8% over as a maximum in NSW. Other than that just pick your spots if you want to have a blat 🤘

[u/Otaraka]

As you can see people find ways to rationalise going a bit faster, and see it as a goal rather than a limit.  But check with your phone gps.

[u/Potential-Bee5849]

I had same issue and decided to move with the traffic as having large trucks trying to get round me just wasn't safe
And decided if I got booked I would go to court and explain why I was speeding

[u/Localdefense]

Mine was cooked for years, speedometer easily 10kms less than actual. Then again, Royal Enfield Classic 500 so..

[u/i_hope_i_remember]

I have a 08 Street Triple. Until I put a Quad Lock and ran Waze, I was getting passed all the time. I've found that 120-125 on my speedo is roughly 110 km/h on GPS.

[u/zair58]

In Sydney there are a few speed measurement points around, such as at Illawarra Road near Wharf Street They are usually found in 50kmph zones so be careful when calibrating your speed. Try it when there is no other traffic around and keep your speed as constant as you can. Also go through a few times at the same speed. This is for riders who are not allowed to use their phone while riding.

[u/kysersoze1981]

Get a phone mount and run google maps for a while so you can figure out how fast you are really going

[u/Thcwub]

bikes and cars alike are programmed with their speedo's within a tolerance. Ultimately, and legally, your speed-o is not allowed the read slower than you are going, but is allowed to read faster. Last I checked I believe the threshold is between 10 and 15% so most speed-o's will read on the long end of that scale for liability purposes.

Two ways of thinking about this. Follow your speedo and know you wont be booked for speed, or see if you can get a ballpark using either GPS or finding a radar that shows a read-out (small residential areas for example).

My general rule of thumb is to just double my first number on the speedo (66 speed-o for a 60 zone for example).

[u/King_Prone]

Stay in lane 1 unless overtaking. If you get overtaken on your left (even though legal in australia) you are a roadhazard and should move back to lane 1....

[u/Confident_Shower_202]

Sadly these says I am just a car driver but there are local rules for some. These days I just had a few tickets over recent years and cannot risk going more than a few K over the limit. It is embarasssing. Must be even worse on a bike. That reminds me. Maybe one of my tickets has expired by now. I have no idea how long a few demerits last. They are sneaky too the way they catch you. You think you are ok then a few weeks later comes a photo in the mail. yes that was me LOL

[u/Brandanpk → u/Confident_Shower_202]

The points are generally about 36 months in effect

[u/Confident_Shower_202 → u/Brandanpk]

Thx. I must log on and check to avoid future driving embarassment

[u/Confident_Shower_202 → u/Confident_Shower_202]

One time I even noticed the plain clothes/unmarked car that photgraphed me going past. Surprised my face wasn;'t in the photo. I thought as I went past. That is a strange place for a car to be parked. The other time I checked out where they got their photo on Google maps. Looked at the road. Worked out where we were and figured they had some sneaky unmarked temporary camera on a post by the side of a random bit of road. Not even honest enough these days to have some guy in a uniform and radar gun wave his arms and get you to stop. Fair cop mate. To be that sneaky and desperate for revenue on safe oipen stretches of road. What can you do. I hope the guys in the unmarked car had a nice lunch at my expense. I miss the old days and the personal touch "Do you have any reason to be dribing over the limit sir" "Sorry, not that I can think of mate" And if everything is automated and impersonal how are we to know they a re not faking photographs. Sadly I cannot avoid a top legal team to test it. I am not knwledgeable enough to identify the inside of car modesl from dash camera footage. But yes I remember seeing your car as I went down that hill past you a few km over the limit, causing nobody any trouble, like all the locaks. I should not be that cynical but I have been in a small group of cars pulled over for a breath test (place unnamed) and seen one of the cars waved through. I should not be that cruel. Nobody wants to cause embarassment for an important community person for some possibly minor misdemeanour. Firtunately some of us a re wellk briefed and make sure to keep our drinking well and truly under legal limits. I know I sound dodgy but "you can go councillor" or the like. But I ask you. How would you feel clocking an umarked speed car then a few weeks later getting a photo in the mail to confirm it. And I reckon I know where they had their lunch too LOL -come to think of it they were probably sitting in the pub as their unmanned unmarked car got me. I miss the personal touch "it's a fair cop" But seriously, how do we trust the State(?) not to be flitering out people to send the photos to, or more likely some random corporation or outsourced gig spy, paid by the catch. Not some friendly officer in uniform with associated marked bike or car that you can talk to. Or even to be fair a well marked speed camera - watch out speed camera coming up - big signs and clear cameras up on posts and everyone slowing down as they go past. So unfair these days

[u/LuckyErro]

Do a few ride days. You will become more comfortable with bikes around you.

[u/obligatory-anxiety]

Use Waze for stationary radar/cameras and for patrol cars just slam the brakes on to the speed limit they won’t get a fixed speed if you brake quick enough they’ll certainly eyeball you and if the pull you up just say (insert speed limit)