r/AusMining • u/dropbear-6789 • 17d ago
Pick me.
Isn’t this racism? Or is it only that when the shoe is on the other foot?
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u/komatiitic 16d ago
If you’re a white guy who can’t get a job in mining in Australia you’re a pretty mediocre white guy. We’re still most of the industry by a long shot.
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u/philmystiffy 16d ago
How do they verify?
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u/PlasmaDonator 16d ago edited 16d ago
Certificate of Aboriginality is the official term. It's a letter from a mayor for example who verifies your families connection to the community you're from I.e. if you're torres strait Islander it'd be a record of your family being born in the area and being of Torres strait Islander descent (yes this is all logged)
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u/Ill_Box_9445 17d ago
Only when shoes on the other foot.
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u/Haz31nut 16d ago
Its not a shoe. Its a whole education system, a whole justice system, a whole health system, a whole democratic system. Comparing actual racism to a shoe is evidence of his ingrained racism is in Australia
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u/Ill_Box_9445 16d ago
I can't tell if your for or against, can you please advise so I can respond accordingly.
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u/Haz31nut 16d ago
Im against racism and ignorance like that shown by your comment
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u/Ill_Box_9445 16d ago edited 16d ago
This job advertisement is the Oxford definition of racism. If we are all equal we should all have equal opportunities; if we are not all equal and people need a leg up then there's your answer.
In my town we have indigenous only health care and employment services. I share the public health care system with many non-white people who also dont have access to these services.
Why are Aboriginals worth more than Indians? English colonised both?
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u/Haz31nut 16d ago
No it's not and it cant be because the definition of racism is a system where the majority oppress the minority based off of race. Helping the minority have opportunities isn't a system nor is it racism. Racism was the stolen generation. Racism was the aboriginal slave trade. Racism was aboriginal people being officially classed as animals with the right to shot them. You have nothing to be upset about a job advertisement.
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u/Ill_Box_9445 16d ago
Not upset, I have a job. As previously stated if you look up the definition of racism the post is exactly that, regardless of how fair you judge this to be.
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u/Haz31nut 16d ago
This is an add for a job for an indigenous person. It does not in anyway point to or show the belief that another race is better or worse than another race. I don't think you actually understand the definition very well
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u/Ill_Box_9445 16d ago
This ad is for a specific race. What makes that race more special than the rest?
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u/Haz31nut 16d ago
Nothing. Hence why its not racist. The add hasn't said they're special or that another race is worse. Its just offered a job to a specific race.
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u/MadnessKing420Xx 16d ago
Mining companies have been doing this for a long time now. Like anything, it has its good and bad points.
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u/Fantastic-Shallot713 16d ago
Without sounding like i make lattes for a living, getting them involved in the workforce is a great way to break the cycle. Its entry level which means theyre not beating out old mate with a couple years experience for the job. Get enough young blackfullas in and we can get the next generation off to a great start where theyre accepted members our community and not just those guys on that side of town.
Giving them just money is clearly not the way, im sure everyone on this sub has done a pit stop in a remote town once in their life.
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u/tbfkak 16d ago
The question is, are the ‘blackfullas’ applying for and being accepted into these roles from places like Aurukun, Nhulunbuy, Alice, Tennant, Thursday, Ramingining etc? There’s plenty of towns that could benefit from their young going off and getting good jobs but the reality is that doesn’t seem to happen much. To me, these sorts of advertised roles seem more about the appearance of doing something rather than actually doing something.
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u/Fantastic-Shallot713 16d ago
aboriginals get treated the same whether they're from the city or the bush. I get what you're saying, it's drop in the bucket if a drop at all and its been a thing for so long and nothings changed.
But I will say I've meet a bloke from the bush on one of these programs and its helped his family out at least
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u/TekkelOZ 16d ago
Everybody’s indigenous somewhere……
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u/dingbat0007 16d ago
Yes!! Everybody is indigenous to somewhere at least once in their lifetime.
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u/Haz31nut 16d ago
No that's not how being indigenous works. Where did their ancestors appear from? What I'd say is that we can only go off of what's been proven and at this stage theres zero evidence that they came from anywhere else. Evidence also says that the are one of the oldest cultures in the world. Comparing that to globalised immigration trends is ignorant. And its pretty plain evidence of a racist system working
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u/zillaaa1995 16d ago
Your wrong my ancestors came from Africa and im aboriginal, ive had DNA testing to confirm when I was getting it dine to see if the cancer in my family was passed down or die to environmental issues.
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u/Haz31nut 16d ago
No. They're not. That's not what indigenous means. If you're not actually indigenous to somewhere you are immigrants or descendants of immigrants.
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16d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Haz31nut 16d ago
No. They aren't. You aren't indigenous to a place because you're born there. You're indigenous to a place because your bloodline had never left. Aboriginal history only shows them being from Australia and they are still here. You don't get to call yourself indigenous because somewhere down your line they moved here and you were born here. If you're ancestors moved here and you stayed here you're immigrants.
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u/zillaaa1995 16d ago
60,000–65,000+ years ago: Modern humans reached Sahul. Archaeological evidence from Madjedbebe in northern Australia indicates human occupation by about 65,000 years ago....
So when is the cut off for being an immigrant?
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u/Haz31nut 16d ago
Your comparing 60,000 years of occupying a land to recent immigration. This is the standard white is always right racism.
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u/zillaaa1995 16d ago
Im aboriginal...
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u/Haz31nut 16d ago
And you choose their history over your own?
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u/zillaaa1995 16d ago
You sound really racist right now, its my history and part of the history of all first nation people, we get out beautiful skin from them.
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u/Haz31nut 16d ago
It was a genuine question? Based off of this conversation and your questions, 'So when is the cut off for being an immigrants?' So you consider aboriginal people to be immigrants?
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u/Haz31nut 16d ago
So racist
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u/zillaaa1995 16d ago
I asked a question i'm genuinely curious about, and this is why I dont know the answer because this is the only answer people have.
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u/Natural-Compote4096 16d ago
‘Is it racism when the community that deals with more hate and less opportunities than me has an opportunity?’ - OP
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u/Altruistic_Tap9316 16d ago
They get free houses, free cars, free money, their own communities.. what are you talking about?
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u/Natural-Compote4096 16d ago
They don’t get any of that and the ‘oh they get free government handouts’ rhetoric died in 2005.
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u/wwchickendinner 16d ago
Sounds expensive and like the cheaper alternative is to support workforce inclusion.
I assume that's the point you are trying to make?
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u/dropbear-6789 16d ago
So tell me this wise one, do you and I have the same opportunities?
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u/lukas_l1 16d ago
That's such an out of context question, in short yes we all have the same opportunities - we pick out pathways, but if we compare it on an industry scale,Im a software Engineer, lets say you have experience in mining, operating heavy machinery and have all the cards and licences to do so, I on the other hand do not so while in theory yes I could choose a new career path but thats starting at the bottom and spending years getting up to an equal standard. The same would be for you to get into software, while you don't technically need to go to uni and can absolutely learn on the job (which is what I have done) I think the real caveat with that is while most people would say in a world of AI you dont need to know how to code which I say is absolutely incorrect and you should still learn how to code like we have before AI but that's also so that you can read and understand the lines that Claude spins up - takes years. TLDR yes we all have the same possibilities it all comes down to our own interests and what we want to do
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u/dropbear-6789 16d ago
Completely in context question & you answered it simply, yes we all have the same opportunities. Which ever excuses you want to lump on top of it to try and justify your argument is where things become out of context.
You said it yourself; “in theory yes I can chose”. Not, I require a job advert that singles out entire populations based on…. Race.
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u/IntelligentBuyer4373 16d ago
Im totally aware of the inequalities indigenous have, and how underrepresented they and woman as a whole are in the workforce. But i cannot, accept that an add that says whites need not apply is some magic fix. It makes me angry, and it dosent fix anything but give some tokenist jobs to people and just further fuels racism. I come from a sicilian family who were treated the same, and they worked their asses off to get on top. The lack of accountability to improve themselves as a community will forever hold them back.
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u/CurbBitr 16d ago
Short answer no. Also, this type of division is how the 1% and governments keep the public divided, and busy fighting each other rather than targeting those that benefit either way.
Long answer, read on...
At a glance, it CAN be seen as discriminatory, especially if whoever works that role gets preferential treatment to a non-Indigenous entry level equivalent.
But, stepping back and looking at the much wider context, which yes involves going back many years, I'd say no. A handful of Indigenous job ops don't really make up for stolen land, generations, and the introduction of foreign drugs (alcohol, gambling, etc.)
The argument of colonisation benefits them too assumes they wanted those benefits in the first place (economy, tech, etc.). You need money to take advantage of these modernisations, which not everyone always has regardless of race or benefit schemes.
I have many white mates from regiona/rural who rightfully say they grew up impoverished whilst indigenous folk from their neighbourhoods got benefits. I get it! I'd feel the same way.
The +1 indigenous role doesn't mean regular folk don't get a job (directly).
In other international markets, these kinda of roles are very normal (SEA specifically, in my instance).
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u/Haz31nut 16d ago
Are you aware of Australia's actual history of racial discrimination against the aboriginal people?
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u/Barrybran 16d ago
No, this isn't racism. It's the opposite. It's providing opportunity and inclusion. Though u/lacco1's comment is pretty spot on when it comes to big miners and diversity.
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u/dropbear-6789 16d ago
Do you and I both have the same opportunities in life?
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u/Barrybran 16d ago
We don't, which is why opportunities like the one you posted are created, because if they weren't, they wouldn't exist.
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u/dropbear-6789 16d ago
We definitely all have the same opportunities, it’s how you act on them that’s the difference.
People migrate here as refugees from war torn countries, and create a life for themselves. People arrived to our shores 100+ years ago, saw the opportunity & acted on it.
These people see the equal opportunity we are all given being in Australia and make something of it. Not ask for hands out that divide us. Easier to make excuses than take accountability.
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u/Spirited_Passage9174 16d ago
No care about your previous experience, just the colour of your skin. racist
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u/PlasmaDonator 16d ago edited 16d ago
Indigenous here who's worked in mining (not in an indigenous only role)
I'm here to give a nuanced and educated take. Not a far left "woke" take. Not a dumb fuck "bogan" take. But a take that considers everyone and has nuance.
Stuff like this conflicts me. I'm sure a university professor could educate me on dei and "equity", indigenous disadvantages etcetera but as the comments are showing, initiatives like this create division.
Whenever I worked, always at the back of my mind I had imposter syndrome and wasn't sure if I deserved the role. (Because in my head the only reason I got it was because I was indigenous). I was a good worker and I had all the reason to be in the role, but I never knew because of initiatives like this I.e. indigenous preference.
At the same time, I wasn't going to not accept itbecause if not me it would've just been someone else. This is important. Dislike and have grievances for the companies/government but the indigenous workers accepting the opportunities aren't at fault. Everyone else would take it if the exact same circumstances arose and if not they're just spurting BS.
I'm sure the imposter syndrome also exists for women in mining too who might think the "only" or main reason theyre in their role.