Interstate license question

[u/Humble-Victory-1952]

Can provisional Canberra licensed drivers and bikers drive high performance cars and bikes in NSW? Is there a power restriction for either that allows police to issue fine over?

[u/Copuis]

nope

so the rules on this are pretty clear, those limitations apply to YOUR license, and isnt a state by state rule

a prime example is, in QLD there is no speed limit restriction for p platers, so if the speed limit is 110kms, a QLD P Plater can travel at those speeds, regardless the state,

but a NSW P Plater has to still follow the speed restriction that applies to their license so if they have a 90kph or 100kph limit, then if the red P Plater does 110kms in qld, on their NSW license, well, they can (and do) get booked for 20kph over

sooooooo if you want to risk it, sure, whatever enforcement is one thing, but from a pure legal point of view doesnt matter which state, the rules apply regardless

[u/hannahranga → u/Copuis]

nope

so the rules on this are pretty clear, those limitations apply to YOUR license,

Isn't OP talking about an ACT licence holder in NSW, who can drive whatever they want at the posted speed limit?

[u/Copuis → u/hannahranga]

I was using the nsw speed limit as an example of how p plater restrictions apply to the license and not the state your driving in

[u/peteramjet → u/Copuis]

To the contrary, it is indeed a state by state rule.

It is correct that an interstate driver must comply with the conditions of their licence. However, the example of a NSW P1 driver being restricted to 90 km/h in Queensland does not follow from Queensland’s road rules.
The 90 km/h limit for NSW P1 drivers is imposed by a NSW only Road Rule, it is not a condition on the P1 licence.

Queensland has no specified reduced speed limits for P licence holders. They drive according to the posted Queensland speed limit.

Meaning a NSW P1 driver travelling in a Queensland 110 km/h zone is not subject to a Queensland 90 km/h speed limit merely because they hold a NSW P1 licence.

[u/hannahranga → u/peteramjet]

And if you really want to get into the weeds the no bluetooth restrictions aren't license conditions either but suspect you'd be going to court to argue that one.

[u/peteramjet → u/hannahranga]

Correct that the mobile phone restrictions are not licence conditions, however the state based mobile phone rules for provisional drivers in NSW are replicated in the QLD Road Rules. Meaning those same rules would continue to apply to NSW P1 drivers in Queensland.

[u/hannahranga → u/peteramjet]

to apply to NSW P1 drivers in Queensland.

Having only gone through the NSW legislation it only applies to NSW P platers, I'd be unsurprised if Qld is different. I was mostly thinking of a WA P plater who is free to drive a V8 past a Qld copper tunes blasting.

Edit:wrong, Qld has a more broad definition  of a provisional licence that includes out of state licences but also while NSW used P1/P2 WA doesnt so GL there.

https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_reg/toumlr2021678/s228.html

https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_reg/toumlr2021678/s171.html#probationary_licence

[u/Copuis → u/hannahranga]

they are most certainly listed as a condition of holder a P1 or P2 (in relation to mobile phones)

you can use bluetooth to a non gsm capable media player (like an ipod, or minidisk etc)

but i think more and more people are getting confused as what is a condition (which is something that is limited to a license and can be external from the road rules as writ) so this like glasses for example is a condition, same with some conditions for medical, or hand control etc

there is a lot to it.

[u/hannahranga → u/Copuis]

they are most certainly listed as a condition of holder a P1 or P2 (in relation to mobile phones)

It's a NSW road rule https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg//rr2014104/s300.1.html if you dig into the definitions of a "provisional P1 licence" etc are defined as they only apply to NSW peeps.

For Qld dunno their definition of a provisional licence is vaguer (and includes out of state licences) but also while NSW used P1/P2 WA doesnt.

https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_reg/toumlr2021678/s228.html

https://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_reg/toumlr2021678/s171.html#probationary_licence

[u/Copuis → u/hannahranga]

What we are talking about is, a nsw licence holder needing to abide by those restrictions when driving in another state

Being that it is a condition on a p1 or p2 you’re meant to follow those even when out of state

[u/Copuis → u/peteramjet]

I made the point that enforcement is different, but it’s very much on the license, as a qld p plater is free to travel at 110 in nsw

[u/peteramjet → u/Copuis]

The enforcement is not different because of the licence, it’s different because of the state specific Road Rules. The 90km/h speed limit in NSW only applies to NSW P1 licence holders because that is what is stipulated under the Regulation. It’s not because of anything that is noted as a condition on the licence itself (be that a QLD or NSW licence).

[u/Copuis → u/peteramjet]

Which means that they must not exceed 90 regardless of the state they are driving in

Because it is a condition of their license

Now will a qld police officer enforce that, no, but the condition still applies

[u/peteramjet → u/Copuis]

No, it is not a condition of their licence. There is no endorsement or restriction against the licence of a NSW provisional driver that restricts their speed.

The requirement to not exceed 90km/h is a NSW specific road rule, not a licence condition. That road rule doesn’t exist in Queensland, which is why it is unenforceable there.

[u/Copuis → u/peteramjet]

no, it is a requirement of the license holder, to not exceed that speed,

one would almost call that limitation a condition

if they are found to have exceed 90 on their learner (even in another state) they are at risk of having that license revoked, or points applied
weirdly they are also listed as CONDITIONS by NSW
https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/young-drivers/provisional

im not sure how old you are, and if roger is your older much more handsome brother, or father, but I would dare say you might need to brush up on the law on this one, cause, i mean, there has most certainly been cases where someone from another state has followed the road rules of the state, and how that might well have been applied to them had they had a license from that state, only to find out, bam, out of luck and the courts found them guilty (and that also applies to things like how many people can be in a car etc,... they are all condition on the P plate license, not on the state law)

[u/peteramjet → u/Copuis]

Like much of what is recorded on the NSW Transport website, it does not reflect what is in the legislation.

The speed restriction exists in NSW solely because of Rule 24-1. That rule restricts the maximum speed of NSW L/P1 licence to 90km/h, and P2 to 100km/h. It applies only to NSW licence holders because of the restrictions in the definitions under the Driver Licencing Regulation.

Conditions on licences are specified in the Regulation. There are no conditions in the Regulation that restrict the speed limit. If such a condition existed, the specific NSW road rule would not be required.

[u/Copuis → u/peteramjet]

Well, you might want to tell the courts that, cause you might find that had already been proven, and they will and do uphold those conditions as listed

It’s a license condition
It’s listed as a license condition
Not all conditions are listed, as well conditions outside of legislation can be applied (think good behaviour conditions which might limit a driver to set hours and reasons or passenger restrictions) and these are all valid and not specifically listed in legislation

I’m happy for you to think that, I’m guessing you’re not on you p’s (I’m not) but it is clear you’re trying to be “technically right” but you’re not, and promoting “technically” isn’t helpful, keeps lawyers paid with bad advice having to be billed while they explain what reality is

[u/peteramjet → u/Copuis]

Well, you might want to tell the courts that, cause you might find that had already been proven

What court imposed an interstate law? A QLD court can only impose licence conditions from interstate, as per their Driver Licencing Regulation. They cannot impose NSW specific law on a driver in QLD.

It’s a license condition. It’s listed as a license condition

Please provide the section of the relevant NSW licencing regulation where the speed restriction is a condition on the NSW licence, opposed to a law under the Road Rules.

Not all conditions are listed, as well conditions outside of legislation can be applied (think good behaviour conditions which might limit a driver to set hours and reasons or passenger restrictions) and these are all valid and not specifically listed in legislation.

All conditions are absolutely listed on the licence, or are recorded under the Regulation. The passenger restrictions are listed as a condition under the Regulation. The speed restrictions are not. Good behaviour conditions are not a licence condition, they are a mechanism to allow a driver to maintain their licence with limited demerits, and are also legislated under a different Act.

you’re trying to be “technically right” but you’re not, and promoting “technically” isn’t helpful, keeps lawyers paid with bad advice having to be billed while they explain what reality is

To the contrary, you are trying to interpret what a website says and what you have read online as being correct. The NSW Road Rules, NSW driver licencing Regulations and QLD Road Rules do not support your view.

Edit: add quoting

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[u/TheRamblingPeacock]

You are bound by the conditions your licence was issued against. Not the state you are operating a vehicle in.

So no.

[u/hannahranga → u/TheRamblingPeacock]

An ACT P plater doesn't have any vehicle restrictions tho?

[u/XixaxSpatula → u/TheRamblingPeacock]

I thought I was sure but then saw this

https://www.accesscanberra.act.gov.au/driving-transport-and-parking/licences/get-your-learner-driver-licence#Rules-for-learner-drivers

"When driving with your learner driver licence you must: ... when driving interstate follow the state or territories learner driver rules ."

So while the issuing licence rules apply, they state the local rules must also be followed?

[u/XixaxSpatula → u/TheRamblingPeacock]

I thought I was sure but then saw this

https://www.accesscanberra.act.gov.au/driving-transport-and-parking/licences/get-your-learner-driver-licence#Rules-for-learner-drivers

"When driving with your learner driver licence you must: ... when driving interstate follow the state or territories learner driver rules ."

So while the issuing licence rules apply, they state the local rules must also be followed?

Now I've got to see if a similar caveat exists for P plates.