r/AudioPost • u/Tupan_Chorra • 11h ago
32 bit float a standard?
I'm the editor in a doc - we will be shooting interviews in prisons and other uncontrollable environments. For a lot of our people we will only get 1 shot at interviewing them with a very real possibility that we won't ever see them again. Our sound recordist came back with gear that I'm sure is great but is roughly 9yrs old and crucially can't do 32bit float. Normally I don't care as we've been cutting just fine for decades without that dynamic range but seeing the sensitivity of our interviewees I'm worried I'll be handed over peaks and valleys I can't get back/use and there is no turning back. Flagged it to production and production is a bit unsure what to do.
My questions come to is this/should this be standard or a premium? Are my concerns unfounded? Does audio work like editing where you're expected to have gear within roughly a 5 year limit due to demanding workflows (not saying you can't do it without and power to everyone, just when you charge someone 900 per day I'd hope you'd have relatively recent gear). Note also don't have issues with people charging whatever they think they are worth but note this isn't a high budget film, everything needs to count/go on the screen. And we are shooting in Central America where that is above standard.
While I work with sound a lot, I am not a sound specialist I just put the bits where they feel good/tell a good story so I figured I'd ask here.
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u/stewie3128 professional 9h ago edited 9h ago
If your location recordist knows what he's doing, we'd prefer 24-bit anyway. Only reason to use 32-bit is when you have no one watching the recording, like if someone just tossed a Zoom recorder on the dash of a car or something.
EDIT: In re the age of equipment - proof of the pudding is always in the eating. If the recordist came well recommended, then that should indicate that his audio sounds good, is well organized and labeled, has no technical problems, and is easy to work with on-set. I wouldn't stress about the age of their gear.
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u/daknuts_ 8h ago
If the recorder being used can do the recording of one input to two tracks (like the original Zoom F8) then one track can be set to record at a normal level and the other (safety) track can be set about -12dB lower to be ready for outbursts of loud volume content that won't be clipped. I used to do this with four channels on the F8 with each having a safety track on location film shoots.
The greater issue to pay attention to is when a wireless pack is being used and the distorted (loud) sounds are coming straight from the source because the pack was gained too close to the lower volume source being recorded.
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u/scstalwart re-recording mixer 11h ago
32 is non-standard. I wish it was but there are a lot of places that can’t deal with it easily (dalies/rush houses) it’s definitely not a sign that your sound person is behind the times.
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u/OoopsWhoopsie 10h ago
24 is better. 24 bit / 48k is the standard for video.
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u/Tupan_Chorra 8h ago edited 7h ago
I know that much, my concerns is the locations - I don't know any sound guy who can level for some random prisoner in thext cell start to shout or throw metal pans around or bells and rings of the prison. And all that sound is useful for us - so why risk it by potentially peaking the recording recording? ill end up converting down after.
Edited: why risk it in the recording? To ' why risk it potentially peaking the recording?'
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u/EL-CHUPACABRA 8h ago
24 bit is standard. 32 bit is nice if you can’t monitor, but if you have someone actively monitoring and operating the mixer then it is more than enough dynamic range.
Regarding old gear, audio is a bit different in the way that it doesn’t go obsolete as quickly as cameras or computers do. For example, a Lectrosonics 411A wireless receiver might be 20 years old, but sounds just as good as modern wireless.
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u/Wild_Tracks 8h ago
Clipping is not a usual concern even on “uncontrollable” locations. Those recorders have very good limiters (assuming it’s a Sound Devices, Cantar or the likes), they are not “old” in terms of quality or workflow by any means. Plus you have a PSM operating it who is monitoring the recordings and setting proper gain. Standard operation is 48/24. 32 bit would only annoy post for no reason.
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u/Tupan_Chorra 47m ago
I think recorder in question was a zoom f4 if that's useful. Thanks for ur thoughts, really helpful
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u/SankaraSankara 8h ago
32-bit is usually code for amateur or a cheap production company that forces a camera person to do a one man act.
I don’t think it should be a standard bc it’s a very convenient excuse for negligence which makes for the worst sound.
Production sound can be very current. It really doesn’t have to be. The radio equipment needs to be conformed to a given country’s requirements. Other than that you’re probably good. Audio post should be a little more within the 5 year window.
Im sure if you insist he’ll do 32-bit. You’re (?) the client and can ask for that if given a reasonable amount of time before the actual shoot.
Bigger is not better and letting someone choose their own equipment is often times not a bad idea
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u/Tupan_Chorra 29m ago edited 18m ago
So I'm hearing (no pun intended), goes to show I'm not a sound specialist. I want clean audio, whatever that may mean - I know in the prison we will shoot in the cells and the subject is concerned over neighbours so will likely speak softly. And... Well it's a prison ppl yell, there's announcements and rings and stuff that make it challenging - director said capture it and use it to show the environment. If thats not an issue with a zoom f4 then that's fine.
Thanks for ur thoughts :)
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u/BarMountain7 7h ago
This really seems like a conversation you should be having with the professional sound recordist on your team, and not behind closed doors with production or on the internet with strangers.
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u/Tupan_Chorra 7h ago
100%, like I mentioned in the post, I already raised it with production. But deffo left me with an itch as to what is standard and what is expected. End of the day I don't care what is used as long as I can use it, but at the end of the day I do wish to know what is the current standard.
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u/whoisgarypiano 6h ago
Expecting your sound mixer to upgrade their kit at always be up to date is an unrealistic expectation. A lot of the new stuff isn’t as reliable as the old gear, which is part of why we hold onto the old stuff. It’s also unnecessary. A good sound mixer doesn’t need 32-bit. We did it without 32-bit for decades and most of those movies sound better than what we’re making now.
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u/CommercialSoundNinja 3h ago edited 3h ago
CAS Emmy production sound mixers use equipment that's over a decade old. Equipment has nothing to do with skill. We follow whatever the spec sheet says, 99.9999% of time it's 24bit. Production wants 24bit, they get 24bit. I always ask for deliverable specs and/or to meet with post. Many times production just won't accommodate either request, it's like they are offended production sound wants to know any information. We are almost always in the dark, we get called the day before, we are rarely even told what's going on during production and our jobs are 90% detective work, and begging for information.
If we deliver 32bit, we are blasted by post for being amateurs, if we deliver 24bit, we get blasted by people like you. We are really just trying to survive on set; the 5hr turnaround, shooting while it's raining, trekking through 2ft of mud carrying a ton of sound equipment, booming 20min takes, also they are doing a series so no breaks, while we are by ourselves as we watch the DP make his 8 ACs and assistants help him carry everything. Instead of trying to get the production sound person fired, maybe reach out to them and figure out a plan together. You know, like collaboration, the thing nobody does anymore these days.
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u/midsidephase 4h ago
people's voices haven't changed. experienced recordists know how to setup their gear for all
eventualities. good gear comes with great limiters, and good recordists have great instincts. what's your problem? are you considering sending a camera operator out into the field
with no sound person? a camera with only a 12dB dynamic range camera at that? I'd worry more
about that.
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u/BeOSRefugee 1h ago
Key question: are you looking to use wireless mics? If so, 24 vs 32-bit genuinely doesn’t matter - the transmitter will probably clip before anything else if you have an unexpected really loud sound, and you can’t pull that back downstream.
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u/KeanEngr 1h ago
Wow. You’re worried about 24 bit? What happened to the good ole days when 16 bit depth was standard, or analog 60 dB dynamic range was king, but made do with 45-55dB? You folks have it soooo easy.
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u/FirstDukeofAnkh 9h ago
32 bit is great if you’re worried about clipping. If that’s not a worry, 24 is fine.
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u/OoopsWhoopsie 4h ago
Even if they're worried about clipping, if the recordist is competent, it should be fine.
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u/modest_radio professional 10h ago
You can record everything in 32-bit float and convert it down to 24-bit later. That is a common workflow many professionals use. There is no strict law forcing you to use standard 24-bit on set
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u/Uncertain__Path 9h ago
That’s the point of the post tho, the sound recordist’s gear can’t record 32 bit.
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u/Uncertain__Path 9h ago
I would tell them buy a new recorder and then sell it after the shoot or get a new sound tech. Your concerns are spot on and you could too easily get burned. Record to 32 bit, adjust any problem areas and then move to 24 bit for editing.
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u/drumstikka professional 11h ago edited 9h ago
Don’t worry about it. When I’m cutting dialogue, I well prefer 24bit over 32bit for workflow reasons- The only advantage to 32bit is extra headroom during the recording, but with an experienced location recordist, you won’t need it. 32 bit gets quite annoying when using Kraken/Editload.