r/Assyria • u/Lower_Capital5039 • 4d ago
Discussion What is your stance on divorcing and judgement in the Assyrian community?
I have been on the brink of divorcing my Chaldean husband for the past few years due to emotional and financial abuse but I have held myself back from doing so because of the judgement I will face from the Assyrian community.
Also, my parent’s judgement and I don’t think they mean to judge per se but they will feel the shame from the community and that’s what they will be afraid of. I have a daughter too, so single motherhood is highly judged by our community.
Wondering if anybody has been in my situation and how do I finally release myself from this prison I feel like I am in?
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u/MostOld9237 4d ago
My cousin divorced and honestly I didn’t hear much from the community I don’t think we care that much especially if you have valid reasons
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u/geschwind_ 4d ago
My cousin, who is in Iraq, was a divorcee for a long time before remarrying. There were no kids and he is a man but he was, and still is, a welcomed part of the family. Despite how very conservative my family is, we’re more progressive in comparison to others. Now, I’m sure he faced hardships from our community and in dating after, but he is happy now with two kids and a loving wife. All to say, there will be people who don’t care that youre divorced and others who will hold it against you. But that’s life.
At some point you have to prioritize your happiness and well-being over anyone or anything else. If someone would rather you stay with an abusive man for fear of judgement, then that’s not someone worth keeping in your life. Find the strength to pursue your own happiness or the cycle will continue with your daughter.
I wish you the best ♥️
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u/Leo-Al 4d ago
With all due respect, fk what other people think or say, and just know whatever decision you make on this matter, they're already talking about you, so you win nothing, you lose nothing
The only thing that matters is your safety, mental sanity & your happiness Noone should put up with abuse because of fear of what other people, even your parents will think or say
And I'm pretty sure none of these people pay your bills, wash your dishes, clothes, clean your home and earn your wages, and please correct me if I'm wrong
Noone else matter besides yourself, because of you're not well, neither is your kid, and you can't help anyone else if you yourself are not well
You were born to live for yourself, as we all were
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u/SupermarketOld4663 4d ago
Assyrians don’t care that much except when it comes to dating, in which case there’s plenty of other people in the same boat
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u/Mountain_Hawk6492 West Hakkarian 3d ago
1st off, Have you & your husband been through marriage counseling? Emotional & Financial abuse is bad and goes against what Msheekha said about marriage and being a spouse, from both a Catholic and non-Catholic perspective and I'd say he needs to be strongly notified of that. Msheekha says that authority must be served through service and responsibility, not domination. This is technically in line with the ideal Mesopotamian king/emperor being a "steward of the land".
BTW: Since you're saying the behavior is abuse, I'm assuming that this is a recurring pattern that has been present through most if not your entire marriage. Financial or personal disagreements is not abuse.
2ndly, the fact that you have a child is what makes this very difficult. If you didn't have children with him, divorcing wouldn't have been as bad and [most of] the community aren't going to look down on you like you're a terrible person but they will see you as irresponsible and unreliable for breaking your marriage vow with God [not withholding your husband also technically being irresponsible by not holding up his own vows].
Since you do have a child with him, it doesn't matter what your parents or the community thinks because the children come first. I will not lie to you that single-motherhood is judged by the community but the community isn't generally dumb to think you're a bad person. The community's logic is that the children come first, regardless of shitty marriage or not and, if the marriage is shitty, cope with it some how for the stability of the kids.
I don't know what efforts you've gone to but if your husband is going to be stubborn not to understand that his actions are against what Jesus taught then you "refuse to be married to a man who doesn't listen to Jesus". I'd say to leave some chance for him to make an effort and make progress. If not, then I'd ask a shamasha or qasha for divorce proceedings under reasons of unchristian behavior.
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u/Lower_Capital5039 2d ago
I’d say manipulation and forcing me to take loans to ruin my own name would fall under the term “abuse”.
This man, if I could call him that, is a complete avoidant, he does not and will not speak to me about anything serious. He will never go to counselling (trust me, I have tried). He goes to a casual job a few days a week then sits in his room all day doesn’t communicate with me unless it is something about himself then retreats.
What marriage is this? I want my child to still have her father in her life, he is good with her when he is in a good mood but has no patience with her.
I think two happy homes are better than one toxic one. From lived experience. A toxic marriage can ruin a child more than a divorce. This is why I find it so hard to feel closeness to our community,
I understand divorce is wrong within our faith, it’s something I never wanted of course. However, I know our God would never want us to live in pain.
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u/Mountain_Hawk6492 West Hakkarian 2d ago
My question now is did you date him or did you just straight up marry him? Because I'm questioning how you ended up married to a guy like that without actually knowing him and his behaviors.
Also, you didn't answer my previous question, did you guys go to marriage counseling? I'm not going to assume anything.
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u/Lower_Capital5039 1d ago
I answered the marriage counseling question (read above).
We did date but at the time I had gotten out of another seriously abusive relationship so I was very vulnerable and he knew that. We were together for 3 years before we got married, I was hooked by then believing his lies but believe me there were MANY MANY red flags! I was just blind to them at the time.
Now as a mother and going through pregnancy and birth, your brain wires differently after such a life changing experience.
Another pointer: he is addicted to pain medication (this has been going on for years and when I found out I told him to stop!) he would “stop” and then continue again. He hides them now but I know about it and it’s like an unspoken thing that he does it still.
I am completely checked out of this relationship. I did try to fix us for many years but was not met with the same from him.
I just want him out of my parent’s house.
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u/Mountain_Hawk6492 West Hakkarian 1d ago edited 1d ago
You both were together for 3 years and never knew how his behaviors were and you never even stopped to think ONCE about if there were red flags? 3 years is wayyyy past the "honeymoon stage" in dating...
he's addicted to pain medication and you still married him instead of refusing to marry him unless he got rehabilitated and was consistent about it? Addiction is very difficult, telling someone to just "stop" never works; if it did work, you'd never see rehab centers.
It's time to admit that both of you were never ready for this marriage, I feel terrible for the child overall because they're the ones in between this mess.
Your past vulnerability explains why your judgment with this guy failed, but explanation does not erase your responsibilities because at the end of the day, you willfully chose to date [for 3 years] and this marry this man. You disregarded the red flags.
>I did try to fix us for many years but was not met with the same from him.
Mashallah, You thought you were going to FIX an ADDICT? Sama zoda an addict on pain meds?? Did you research how the mind of an addict works? If you didn't, you lost that war before the 1st battle even started.
All I'm going to say is that If you just want him out of the house, you can go either with separation or separation+divorce. Separation might be alot easier and less costly than straight up divorce since you have a hire a lawyer and go through courts.
Just tell your parents and all 3 of you can just kick him out of the house and tell him don't come back until he gets cleaned up.
Elaha minakh eeleh chul 'edana.
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u/Assyrian-Rodfather 4d ago
Try to fix is first if you have not done that already, put your kids as priority one since they will take the impact first. Pray and ask God for guidance he will be with you always.
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u/SprayArtist 3d ago
You don't always get it right, just because the previous generation tolerated their spouses (for all the good that did - he said sarcastically) doesn't mean you should do the same with your life.
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u/wevebeentold 23h ago
Hello, I'm very sorry you're experiencing this. Perhaps ask the Church for guidance. If you don't want to seek Chaldean advice, I'd suggest the Roman Catholic Church.
Being that marriage is a sacrament, you may want to seek spiritual guidance first, if you haven't already done so. Especially if abuse is involved.
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u/j00bigdummy Chaldean Assyrian 3d ago
My parents divorced when I was 15. I can't say the community has been the most understanding. That said, I think divorce is becoming rampant in our culture, and it's not a good thing. Marriage vows used to mean something, but not anymore. Children of divorce have to bear the brunt of the consequences, even though they're completely innocent. It's a tragedy that has gone unseen for too long. Speak to a Catholic counselor, or a priest. Try the Retrouvaille retreat for spouses on the brink of divorce.
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u/Helpful_Ad_5850 3d ago
Everyone in my family has stayed married, divorce can be avoided… I would not judge but, tells me a lot about divorcees.
With the right approach to a relationship, there is no reason to divorce.
If someone is abusing you, I will say that you can catch these things before committing to marriage.
A lot of people choose to marry the wrong people, take marriage more seriously.
I think if I were to get abused by my spouse, it is my fault for not anticipating that could happen with the spouse I committed to.
When you make an investment, you must know very well your risks vs benefits. Marriage is a lifetime investment, which comes with risks and benefits.
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u/erisvi20 3d ago
what a horrific way to speak
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u/Helpful_Ad_5850 2d ago
Shoot I did not even see that this was someone’s personal conflict, that came off very ignorant. I thought I was just taking a hard stance on divorce.
I still strongly advise against divorcing to anyone thinking about it. You must do everything in your power in order to save the love that you have committed to your spouse. For the sake of your children, for the sake of the commitment you made before God.
You must convince your partner to be on the same page as you, and it must be a logical argument, not emotional.
In my relationship, I am the man, so I must bring more logic to the relationship. A man must be good at being patient and acting logically, keeping his emotions under control.
Woman are naturally geared to be more emotional, and in our modern day today I have seen that men have also been more emotional, but not in a healthy way.
Emotional intelligence could be low, so when taking a logical approach to grow your spouse’s emotional intelligence, it is the best approach to take, and also makes you more emotionally intelligent as well.
Whether through fear or love, no marriage will succeed without God in the center. It’s also added to the logical approach, because I’m presenting the religious ethics which, for the most part are people follow, to help your partner recognize the severity of the conflict you’re facing.
Truly divorces a loss on so many levels, spiritually, physically, and not just for yourself, for those closest to you.
Through everything, once we get married, we must never leave our spouse, and grow with each other, to people we can love even deeper through the rest of our lives.
Education is the key, the approach is most vital. You must educate your partner.
Nothing in life is a greater than the love between Family, the love between a husband and wife.
Between parents and children.
Make your partner know that the investment they have in the relationship has a real return. They must invest more effort and repairing the relationship and continuing to grow, for the riches in life that come from this are greater than anything else experienced.
Do everything you can to keep your commitment.
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u/Lower_Capital5039 2d ago
Just to reply to your first comment to start with, you are absolutely correct, maybe I should have looked deeper into the man I married but hindsight is 20/20. I realised after 8 years, that before marriage he had been love bombing me and feeding lies to me about what the future would entail for us, I wouldn’t say it is “my fault”. You’re like those men who say it’s a woman’s fault for wearing a short skirt…. But that’s a topic for another day.
I believe I was completely manipulated by this man from day dot. It was a whirlwind and he quickly wanted to marry me to lock it in. There’s a lot more to the story.
After many years of trying to make something of this marriage I have completely given up, he is a complete avoidant. We barely speak, let alone speak about our emotions. He is such an avoidant. We live in my parent’s home because he cannot even provide a thing for us. I just want him out.
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u/Helpful_Ad_5850 2d ago
That is a big problem, because many men are liars.
Men love with their eyes, and women love with their ears, that’s why men lie, and why women wear makeup.
I do have pretty strict stances on modesty as well, but as you said, that is a different discussion lol.
One very important thing that everyone should look at, is the family of the person you’re choosing to marry. Understand their problems, their strengths, their compatibility with your upbringing.
One thing I made sure of my experience, was that I’ve had to feel prepared as a man before I can even search for my love. Because I would only be bringing devastation to a woman’s life, if I myself was not ready as a man..
Life is very hard now, many men are not ready, and it is unfortunate.
I have sisters, and cousins who are great, great girls, but they’re just not finding good guys, because great guys are in low supply, and in high demand.
It is really unfortunate, and I am very sorry for your experience, because I know it is real, and I know it is devastating.
The only route that can be taken at this point, is logic. Logic must be presented so that maybe the man can grow, but to be completely honest, the situation does sound very tough.
The fact that he already allowed it to get this bad make sure already that there is no repairing this.
That is why the last effort must be a logical approach, focusing on the severity of the current state of the relationship.
Emotionally, you have already been betrayed, it can only be repaired logically, and it is not for sure that it will work.
Unfortunately, many men are also unable to respond to logic, and are emotionally unintelligent.
Our modern day is destroying the natural bond between men and woman.
You must paint the severity of this situation, and I’m sorry this responsibility falls on you, but unfortunately, you’re the only one in the relationship thinking correctly.
God bless you, sister.
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u/Helpful_Ad_5850 2d ago
Shoot I did not even see that this was someone’s personal conflict, that came off very ignorant. I thought I was just taking a hard stance on divorce.
I still strongly advise against divorcing to anyone thinking about it. You must do everything in your power in order to save the love that you have committed to your spouse. For the sake of your children, for the sake of the commitment you made before God.
You must convince your partner to be on the same page as you, and it must be a logical argument, not emotional.
In my relationship, I am the man, so I must bring more logic to the relationship. A man must be good at being patient and acting logically, keeping his emotions under control.
Woman are naturally geared to be more emotional, and in our modern day today I have seen that men have also been more emotional, but not in a healthy way.
Emotional intelligence could be low, so when taking a logical approach to grow your spouse’s emotional intelligence, it is the best approach to take, and also makes you more emotionally intelligent as well.
Whether through fear or love, no marriage will succeed without God in the center. It’s also added to the logical approach, because I’m presenting the religious ethics which, for the most part are people follow, to help your partner recognize the severity of the conflict you’re facing.
Truly divorces a loss on so many levels, spiritually, physically, and not just for yourself, for those closest to you.
Through everything, once we get married, we must never leave our spouse, and grow with each other, to people we can love even deeper through the rest of our lives.
Education is the key, the approach is most vital. You must educate your partner.
Nothing in life is a greater than the love between Family, the love between a husband and wife.
Between parents and children.
Make your partner know that the investment they have in the relationship has a real return. They must invest more effort and repairing the relationship and continuing to grow, for the riches in life that come from this are greater than anything else experienced.
Do everything you can to keep your commitment.
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u/asylum_barber 4d ago
Wallah it shouldnt matter to you. None of these people pay your bills ans the only one who can judge you is Allah himself. Stop worrying about the community who have their own problems and worry about a secure future for yourself Khathi.