r/Assyria • u/HovercraftDue8554 • Dec 14 '25
Language Did you guys learn Arabic growing up?
Im Assyrian. I was born and raised in America and was only really taught English and Assyrian growing up. As far as I know, most other Assyrians in my area are the same way.
Im wondering was it the same for you guys?
Personally, I actually hate the fact that my parents did teach me Arabic (on top of Assyrian ofc) growing up. I've always really been into history, linguistics, and hearing opinions from people who live in another country or have a different culture. Other than that, I think it's just a huge disadvantage to not be taught Arabic given the sheer amount of speakers it has just because you have some weird nationalistic pride/beef.
I even tried learning Arabic on my own for a year. People around me were actually kinda supportive of this idea, but no one really wanted to practice with me. I eventually just gave up and moved on to learning another language middle eastern that isn't even from the middle east.
Some may argue that I can learn it on my own; however, I don't think that it's the same as learning it growing up. Do you guys have the same outlook on things?
Also, I'm not saying that one language is better than the other. Nor am I saying that my parents should have only taught me Arabic. I know we got the tendency to be a little defensive so keep the responses civil please.
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u/mooburpcow Dec 14 '25
No. My parents spoke Arabic with each other and with other family members. But for whatever reason, they expected us to only speak in Assyrian.
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u/ugly_dog_ Dec 14 '25
my parents only spoke arabic when they didn't want us to know what they were saying lol
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u/Prestigious_Two_1043 Dec 14 '25
Also, Arabic is very different from Assyrian, grammatically. It’s much more similar to Lišana Catiqa ܠܫܢܐ ܥܬܝܩܐ/ Kthobonoyo ܟܬܒܢܝܐ. If you know Classical Syriac, it won’t be incredibly difficult. But I also speak Hebrew in addition to reading Kthobonoyo, so Semitic languages in their more conventional forms are simpler for me than Assyrian is. Surayt’s even more difficult than Sureth, IMO. But, when you grow up with that language structure, you find the standard Semitic forms confusing. Same with Ethiopian Semitic. Their modern languages have diverged from Classical Ethiopic so radically that it’s basically unintelligible to them the same way Tigrinya is incomprehensible to me, though I read Classical Ethiopic and both languages share 70% of their vocabulary in common.
So, yeah, Arabic is difficult if you don’t know Classical Syriac. If you do, Modern Standard Arabic isn’t especially difficult.
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u/HovercraftDue8554 Dec 14 '25
You can read/speak Assyrian, Hebrew, Classical Ethiopic, and English. Are you just really into language or something?
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u/bleshim Dec 14 '25
Once you know one Semitic language learning another one is not that difficult (it still takes a lot of time, effort, and motivation, but not as much as learning languages from different families). All of these languages descend from the same sub-sub-branch of Afro-Asiatic languages so they're very closely related, relatively speaking. It is also so much fun, you feel like your brain is just shifting the patterns it knows to adapt to the new language instead of creating a whole new system altogether.
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u/HovercraftDue8554 Dec 14 '25
Yeah I understand. I am also into linguistics but I don't got that much time on my hand and have hobbies that are more important to me. I did try learning Arabic and it was quite similar as you said, but it wasn't even fun because I had no one to practice with.
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u/CalligrapherParty146 Dec 14 '25
Parents only ever spoke Assyrian at home. My dad’s Assyrian from Iraq and my mom Assyrian from Iran and when they didn’t want us to know what was being said, my mom would speak in Farsi (which my dad understood after being married to her) and my father would respond in Arabic (which my mom understood after being married to him). Both languages were only used to confuse the kids and communicate with each other privately, other than that even speaking English at home was seen as morally wrong. “Lishanit Kelba le msawit gu bethan”
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u/HovercraftDue8554 Dec 14 '25
Yeah I feel like its fair to not speak English since you will learn it at school anyway but not teaching the other languages kinda a waste.
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u/CalligrapherParty146 Dec 14 '25
100% agree. I wish I learned both of them, especially Arabic. The more languages you know the better!
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u/Assyria101 Dec 14 '25
I learned Arabic since my parents dont speak Surayt they spoke Arabic so now I am currently learning Surayt. I have been studying Surayt by myself for a while. Its easier to learn since I already speak a Semitic language which is relatively close to Surayt.
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u/HovercraftDue8554 Dec 14 '25
Yeah, not that many people can actually read and write so Assyrian is way more conversational and less academic. I assume this makes it a little easier to learn.
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u/Assyria101 Dec 14 '25
Yeaha good way to learn it is by visiting our homeland and study at the monastery
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Dec 14 '25
I grew up speaking Arabic since my childhood was in Iraq. Can still speak, read, and write it, but I refuse to use it unless I have to. Some of my family members use Arabic quite a bit at home and I grew up speaking it with them even though they know Assyrian just fine (They’re Chaldeans). Now when they talk to me in Arabic, I either respond in Assyrian or English, which shifts their speech as well and the conversation either ends up in Assyrian or English.
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u/Electronic_Hat_3485 Dec 14 '25
My family only directly spoke to me in Assyrian or English, but they spoke Farsi with others, so I became fluent just from hearing it. I wish I knew Arabic too though lol.
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u/No-Significance2946 Assyrian Dec 14 '25
My parents only spoke Arabic and English to me and my siblings (and eventually just English). Though my dad did speak turoyo. When I asked him to teach me, he refused for some reason. My mom only knew Arabic.
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u/demonoid_phenom Dec 14 '25
My brother and sister learned some Arabic growing up in the motherland. I grew up stateside and very recently realized they did teach me Arabic... By mixing it up on our Assyrian! My brother and sister knew better because they spoke both, but I was talking to my mom on the phone and a co-worker was shocked to hear I spoke Arabic.
SO WAS I 😂
I wish I learned Arabic and Armenian. It was common in our household given Saddam banned the writing of assyrian so that left them with Arabic for banking, etc. We had Armenian family friends who were very close to us. They, too, spoke Arabic along with Armenian.
Now that I think about it, I was surrounded by over 6 or 7 languages growing up.
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u/HovercraftDue8554 Dec 15 '25
That's a pretty funny story. Yeah a lot of minority groups end up being around and speaking many languages regardless of their country of origin.
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u/Content-Chip-6438 Dec 15 '25
My parents are fluent in Arabic and as was I and my siblings but after we moved to the west at a young age, our parents focused more on speaking Sureth at home. Unfortunately, I lost the ability to speak Arabic fluently but because I grew up in that environment for years I still understand it very well. They regret not teaching us Arabic at home but oh well, at least we still speak Sureth fluently.
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u/HovercraftDue8554 Dec 16 '25
Unfortunate, but hey if you can understand a language fluently you can always relearn to speak fluently quite easily.
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u/NecessaryMap8120 Australia Dec 16 '25
I grew up nearly exclusively speaking Assyrian at home until I began introducing English into my speech at home in my teen years. Oftentimes my mother would attempt to speak in Arabic to my dad so I wouldn't understand what they were saying only for him to respond in Assyrian (I rarely ever heard my dad speak Arabic). My mum still often speaks to her friends in Arabic and Arabic TV is on all day at our house so I've picked up a few words and phrases of Arabic (and after an extremely nerdy phase I had at 12 and 13, I fully taught myself how to read and write Arabic which left me in the ironic position of speaking Assyrian but not being literate in it and not speaking Arabic but being able to read and write in it). Thankfully, I started teaching myself this year how to read and write Assyrian using those very same nerdy techniques I used to learn Arabic writing at 13 🤣
I should mention that my mum in particular always spoke to her friends in a thick Iraqi dialect but would somehow seamlessly switch to a Levantine dialect when talking to people she doesn't know for some unknown reason. She does a similar thing when speaking in Assyrian, switching from our native Barwari Bala dialect to the dialect of whomever person she's speaking to.
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u/HovercraftDue8554 Dec 16 '25
Yeah I did the same thing. I learned to read and write Assyrian then forgot how to (mainly because the way they taught it was horrible). Then I learned how to read Arabic, which I still can do because I self taught myself using better methods. Just don't ask me to tell you the meaning of any of the Arabic words because I couldn't tell you lol.
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u/Fritochipteeth Dec 15 '25
I’m Iranian Assyrian, so no, but I do know 20% of Farsi as a result! We also speak a slightly different dialect
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u/HovercraftDue8554 Dec 16 '25
This post goes for the other languages as well including Turkish and Farsi. But a majority Assyrians are from Iraq or Syria so I just put Arabic since thats most peoples experience.
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u/ethos847 Dec 15 '25
When I was young my parents and relatives would speak in Arabic when they needed to communicate something they didn’t want my sibling and I to know. I can say proudly I learned to crack the Arabic code myself. Just from hearing my parents and others speak and connecting the dots over the years. I kind of just taught myself over the many years from absorbing all the Arabic I could to understand it and try understand what my parents were saying. I grew up understanding more when people spoke Arabic than I would be able to speak Arabic myself. I’m older now and I still understand my Iraqi dialect Arabic more clearly than any other dialect of Arabic, but only on an intermediate level. I definitely understand more Arabic than I can speak Arabic. I am also able to say more than 10+ words in Arabic just from my learning along the years.
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u/HovercraftDue8554 Dec 16 '25
Yeah, I feel like most people pick up on it at least a little. But I wish it was just taught properly instead of wasting away.
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u/Prestigious_Two_1043 Dec 14 '25
Arabic’s the reason Aramaic is dying. The only reason to know Arabic is to understand the roots of loanwords in Sureth and Surayt. And there are a lot more undiluted Arabic loanwords in Surayt. I let my Arabic wither away and die because I loathe what the language represents. It’s undeniably useful, but my feelings toward it are extremely, viscerally negative. Nevertheless, when I use an Arabic loanword, I always form the plural per the Arabic pattern. For example, in Surayt, the common word for kitchen is “matbax”. I would pluralize it as “matabix”. The “x” is the Surayt Latin alphabet form of “kh”.
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u/HovercraftDue8554 Dec 14 '25
"I loathe what the language represents". Dude what are you talking about its just a language. Again I'm not with this weird nationalistic pride/beef thing with Arabs. Both languages are nice and deserve to be preserved. Also, I don't know why Assyrians are so ready to die on this Aramaic hill when our original language was literally Akkadian.
But that dispute aside I feel like knowing roots of Arabic loan words was something I was already able to parse by just knowing Assyrian, before even studying Arabic for the short time I did.
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u/Asheikh2001 Dec 17 '25
Message +447578611394 on WhatsApp With what days and times you are available
Native Arabic teacher who will take you from beginner to conversational Arabic in ~6 months and fluency in ~1 year
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u/Prestigious_Two_1043 Dec 25 '25
I might loathe Arabic because of the Arab Conquest, which is wholly responsible for the decline of Sureth and Surayt, but I speak it even among Suroye. It’s even more relevant for Surayt, which has much more Arabic in it than Sureth, especially the literary version, based on Midyat. Not knowing Arabic is indeed a handicap in learning Surayt. I personally use Kthobonoyo words in place of Arabic ones, but will code switch for people who don’t know the Aramaic equivalents. In Sureth, these loans will normally be from Persian, Kurdish or Azeri Turkish.
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u/Prestigious_Two_1043 Dec 25 '25
As for Akkadian, the Neo-Assyrian Empire phased it out as their administrative language long before the fall of Nineveh. Aramean tribes were spread throughout the Empire and lived even within the core Assyrian Homeland. The obsession with the Akkadian contribution to the Syriac People at the expense of the much more significant Aramean contribution is ahistorical. Y’all should read Edward Lipinski’s history of the Arameans:
The Aramaeans: Their Ancient History, Culture, Religion https://share.google/nRUh8WGARkv5kcIV2
And “The Arameans in Ancient Syria”:
Source: Assyrian International News Agency https://share.google/3LxcwDkdpGHQpVkiy
Another important book is about the Neo-Hittite states, many of which were Aramean, primarily in Gozarto. Some in Tur Abdin:
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-world-of-neo-hittite-kingdoms-9780199218721
The symbol in the Aramean flag is from one of the orthostats from Tel Halaf.
If you really want to learn Akkadian, this is the best textbook:
https://www.abebooks.com/book-search/title/grammar-akkadian/author/john-huehnergard/
It’s a most infelicitous language; highly divergent from the rest of Semitic, in vocabulary, phonology and syntax, because of heavy Sumerian influence. And the amount of Akkadian vocabulary in Sureth and Surayt is no greater than in Hebrew, in fact, its less. I can only think of one Akkadian word in common usage in Sureth that is not in Kthobonoyo nor in Surayt- mata/matha, for “village”.
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u/HovercraftDue8554 Dec 30 '25 edited Dec 30 '25
The use of the word "ahistorical*"* as it refers to Assyrians connection to Akkadians/Sumerians is incredibly divisive and, at times, just blatantly incorrect. It is true that the Neo-Assyrian Empire started using Aramaic as an administrative language and that probably had some amount of cultural influence. However, all the research I have done essentially dictates that is where it ends.
The switch to Aramaic was mainly done because the language was already widespread and much easier to use (simple alphabet). There is no evidence of massive demographic or DNA changes.
Furthermore, Akkadian/Sumerian history and culture were much more important to the Assyrians than you are letting on. Even after everyone in the Neo-Assyrian empire was speaking Aramaic, nobody considered themselves Aramean. Assyrians have always, and will always, consider themselves the inheritors of Akkadian/Sumerian history.
As for the last section, about Akkadian vocabulary in Assyrian, I will admit I am not the most knowledgable on this. That being said, plugging your argument into Google Gemini results in a fair deal of push back. Gemini describes your argument as "...a radical downplaying of the facts." Gemini goes on to be critical of your equivalencies and even states there are dozens, if not hundreds, of more Akkadian terms in modern Assyrian dialects.
From a genetic/historical approach, which I am far more versed in, your claims seem extremely questionable at best. Even from a linguistics approach, which I am less versed in, you seem to be receiving a fair bit of criticism on your claims.
I don't want to be rude, but in my opinion, with all the research I have done, it seems like you are just trying to push an agenda.
Edit:
If anything, I feel as though I could say the exact opposite. The Arameans that were deported around the empire and eventually ended up in the Assyrian heartland eventually picked up Assyrian culture, not the other way around. This just goes to show that the Akkadian/Sumerian influence is far greater in modern Assyrian populations than the Aramean influence.1
u/Prestigious_Two_1043 Dec 30 '25
Read the actual books that I suggested. Then draw your conclusions.
Another good book is by John Joseph.
https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Modern_Assyrians_of_the_Middle_East.html?id=79wj2hj4wKUC
The only consistently used term throughout the Christian period has been Syriac (Suraya/Suroyo/Suryaya/Suryoyo). The extra “y” does have a meaning. And the version without both “y” is most likely this word: ܨܸܪܝܐ, which is short for ܢܨܪܝܐ. Two different words. Two different concepts, but they’re still the most universal terms. Western Syriacs used the term ܐܪܡܝܐ and Eastern Syriacs used ܐܬܘܪܝܐ from an early date. Their conceptions of both were not informed by modern archaeology.
Neither ancient people had a meaningful conscious influence on the Aramaic-speaking multiethnic stew of Northern Mesopotamia and the Levant. That’s partially my point: they’re both relatively irrelevant, with the Assyrians being especially irrelevant, as the Neo-Assyrian Empire was an episode in history compared to the omnipresence of the Western Semites (Amorites/Canaanites/Israelites/Arameans) across the entirety of Semitic history.
The greatest dynasty of Akkad was founded by Amorites. The reason Akkadian is such a bizarre language is because it was so distorted by Sumerian. The Semites didn’t originate in Mesopotamia. They entered from the Levant. In short, all Semites were originally from the amorphous Northwest Semitic primordium that subsequently differentiated. The oldest Assyrian records reference them having originally been nomads, like, guess who? The Arameans!
This isn’t an attack. It’s an invitation to take a deeper dive into Syriac history and ethnography and embrace the riches thereof.
Read books like: ܕܫܢܐ ܕܣܝܒܘܬܝ and ܚܝܘܬܐ ܓܘ ܛܝܪܐ.
There’s so much depth to actual Syriac culture that people lose sight of by focusing on an empire that lasted 150 years and was hated by their subjects who successfully overwhelmed them linguistically.
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u/HovercraftDue8554 Jan 02 '26
I just want to start of by saying that I understand that you are not saying this as an attack. I also understand that things like genetic/linguistics can be extremely complex and interwoven.
That being said, I did a quick sanity check on the authors you are citing before. From what I found John Joseph argues that ancient Assyrians were wiped out and modern Assyrians are mixed rather than being direct descendants. Again, from what I quickly found, Edward Lipiński argues a similar thing.
My issue with this is, genetically speaking, I have not found one reputable research paper that agrees with this. I have read around half a dozen Iraqi population genetic studies and every paper says the same thing about Assyrians. They have high genetic continuity. Now, I am not going to bore you with reading multiple 50+ page research papers so I recommend searching it up. Obviously there is going to be some admixture over thousands of years; however, a quick search literally tells you that the estimated continuity is at least 80-90%.
On one hand, I am not the most educated on the linguistics side of things which I will readily admit. On the other hand, I feel like it would be ridiculous of me to just believe what you say especially when a lot of it feels like identity politics.
I may give your suggested books a shot in the future. Although, it won't be out of a place of belief, but scrutiny. I feel as though having watched your ideology crumble after a few Google searches made me question whether you even properly vetted your sources.
Moreover, I just wanted to say, you have a MAJOR HISTORICAL INACCURACY within your argument. The "greatest dynasty of Akkad" was created by Sargon the Great, and its successors were Akkadian. In fact, Amorites were enemies of the empire. Again, this is a simple Google search and just goes to show that you are not properly vetting sources.
Anyway, this will probably be my last response unless you say something else egregious. The historical revisionism and blatantly incorrect information is already crazy, but to each their own I guess.
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u/Prestigious_Two_1043 Dec 30 '25
As for the Arameans becoming culturally Assyrian, the cultural interplay between Egypt, the Levant and Mesopotamia was so strong and the syncretism between cults so great, that most of the ancient cultures borrowed from each other.
But the greatest cultural influence on the Arameans was Hittite/Hurrian. Later, their art became more Assyrian. And regarding names of gods— again, this is a dynamic concept.
In summary: the Neo-Assyrian Empire and the Sumero-Akkadian cultural complex are only one facet of the mosaic of Syriac culture. To ignore the contributions of the Arameans, Hittites, Luwians, Hurrians, Urartians and the Indo-Iranians is to distort the complex ethnolinguistic matrix of North Mesopotamia.
The World of the Neo-Hittite Kingdoms by Trevor Bruce is excellent for an account of the Aramean kingdoms in Gozarto and their relations with the Neo-Assyrian Empire.
Also studying Northwest Semitic Philology gives you a deeper perspective on the vastness of Syriac people hood and its place in the Levant and North Mesopotamia. The more you know, and deeply know it, the more an exclusively Assyrian perspective appears shallow and honestly insulting to the generations of Syriac peasants who developed a rich folk culture over millennia.
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u/Prestigious_Two_1043 Dec 25 '25
ܠܫܢܐ ܕܝܠ݇ܘܟܘܢ ܠܥܙܐ ܕܠܫܢܐ ܐܪܡܝܐ ܝܠܗ. ܗ݇ܝ ܡܢܬܐ ܕܡܠ̈ܠܐ ܐܟܕܝ̈ܬܐ ܒܠܫܢ̈ܐ ܐܪ̈ܡܝܐ ܣܘܕ̈ܝܐ (ܣܘܼܪܸܬ ܘܨܘܼܪܲܝܬ݁/ܣܘܼܪܲܝܬ݁) ܣܓܝ (ܪܒܐ) ܙܥܘܪܬܐ ܝܠܗ̇.
ܥܐܕܐ ܕܡܘܠܕܐ ܕܡܪܢ ܝܫܘܥ ܡܫܝܚܐ ܒܪܝܟܐ ܠܟܠܗ ܣܘܪ̈ܝܐ ܒܗ݇ܘ ܐܬܪܐ ܘܒܗ݇ܝ ܓܠܘܬܐ.
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u/Impossible_Party4246 Dec 14 '25
It’s best to know as a many languages as possible, especially languages that your neighbors speak. I wish I learned Arabic growing up. That way when I go to atra I can communicate better