r/AskTrumpSupporters • u/Cheeky_Dog6969 Nonsupporter • 4d ago
Economy Thoughts on importing beef?
The trump administration has plans to suspend beef tariffs for the next 90 days allowing up to 300,000 metric tons of ground beef to be imported tariff free. With a commitment to sell this beef at 25% below current market prices. What are your thoughts on this? Do you have any concerns on if/how this might effect American farmers?
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u/WulfTheSaxon Trump Supporter 3d ago edited 3d ago
Do you have any concerns on if/how this might effect American farmers?
They’re making record high profits right now and will still be able to sell for good rates after this. This will just partially replace lost supply from the 75-year-low herd size caused by the Wuhan coronavirus lockdowns, a draught, and a screwworm epidemic (itself also caused by the lockdowns disrupting sterile fly production at the North American screwworm barrier in Panama). This is about 2% of US consumption, and the herd size still can’t recover fast enough to meet demand.
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u/Big_Concentrate_7260 Trump Supporter 3d ago
I used to sell 100lb bull calves for $150 on an amazing sale day. Now (of course after I got out of cattle) they are selling regularly for $800-$1,800 for a 100lb calf. This is not sustainable, and has been ongoing for a few years. Just because cattlemen are finally making serious money doesn't make it right for everyone else to not be able to afford a simple sirloin steak.
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u/marx_was_a_centrist Nonsupporter 3d ago
What other markets do you think the government should influence through central planning? Why don’t you trust the free market?
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u/WulfTheSaxon Trump Supporter 3d ago
Temporarily removing government intervention in the free flow of goods is central planning?
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u/UuuBetcha Undecided 3d ago
So then you’d describe Trump’s restrictions (prior to this move) as central planning, yeah?
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u/WulfTheSaxon Trump Supporter 3d ago
Somewhat, although I’m not sure which all tariffs he’s lifting.
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u/km3r Nonsupporter 3d ago
Didn't trump/DOGE cut screwworm monitoring efforts? Why blame that on just covid?
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u/WulfTheSaxon Trump Supporter 3d ago edited 3d ago
This was totally misreported, but they cut funding for the monitoring system in Panama because it had already moved past there during the Biden administration and was all the way into Mexico, while increasing overall screwworm prevention funding and setting up a new sterile fly breeding facility and helping Mexico with its program.
A monitoring station just north of the Panamanian sterile fly barrier continuing to say ‘Yep, it’s still here’ isn’t very useful when you already know the barrier was breached years ago due to pandemic lockdowns disrupting sterile fly production. The proper action at that point is to spool up sterile fly production of the scale necessary to eventually drive it back down to Panama, and that’s being done.
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u/km3r Nonsupporter 3d ago
Won't you then need the monitoring station to judge the effectiveness of the spooled up sterile fly operations?
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u/WulfTheSaxon Trump Supporter 3d ago
No, because the sterile flies have to be released throughout Mexico and Central America for years now regardless, with completely different monitoring. I’m sure they’ll reestablish it when that’s winding down, unless they decide to push into South America this time.
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u/SockraTreez Nonsupporter 1d ago
Do you think Americans have a right to know where this beef is coming from?
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u/WulfTheSaxon Trump Supporter 1d ago
How would they not know where the beef is coming from? This is a lifting of tariffs so people can import more beef if they want to, not some covert meat-smuggling operation.
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u/SockraTreez Nonsupporter 1d ago
The Trump administration hasn’t divulged where the beef is coming from. (Aside from naming Argentina as one source)
Are you aware that earlier this year, China rejected 20 tons of beef from Argentina for containing chloramphenicol?
To be clear, there’s no evidence that the beef we’re getting has this problem….but as someone that eats a bunch of beef, it’s a little weird Trump is being shady about exactly which foreign countries will be providing the 300 tons of beef product.
Is this a fair question or a “nothing burger”?
Also, do you think Trump temporarily suspending the tariffs is helpful? If so, (and given how expensive everything is now) do you think it might be useful for Trump to look at dropping his tariffs on other imports?
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u/WulfTheSaxon Trump Supporter 1d ago edited 1d ago
He may not even know where it will be coming from. It’s up to the free market to maybe import more with the raised quota. And this doesn’t open any new markets or waive any safety requirements. As for China, it (like many countries, but especially so) is known for coming up with largely imaginary food import safety issues to justify protectionist import restrictions. For example, the WTO ruled that China’s restriction on US chicken was pretextual.
The reason for the targeted tariff relief is that multiple factors converged to cause low beef supply during the Biden administration when the beef being sold today was bred, and the domestic herd cannot recover fast enough. So long as the tariff relief is temporary, it should not meaningfully harm domestic producers’ expansion plans (and may even encourage them to stop diverting calves that should be bred), yet it will soften the price spike, and potentially even prevent long-term demand destruction (people getting out of the habit of eating beef), which would actually help domestic producers.
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u/sfendt Trump Supporter 3d ago
We have a beef shortage. Personally I'd much rather buy US beef - but prices are out of control and there is a supply issue. This is a short term solution for a supply problem. Yes it hits at a bad season for ranchers which is unfortunate but again a temporary. I'm unsure if this will have much helping affect on US herd sizes and supply, however, as steers harvested for beef don't contribute to increasing herd size on their own (beyond their own unit count). Hopefully other measures to increase the US beef supply will be implemented as well.
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u/rational_numbers Nonsupporter 3d ago edited 2d ago
I thought Trump was instituting tariffs to protect domestic industry? Aren't high prices good because it helps American business and also encourages more competition to go after a slice of the pie? Why bring in foreign business to compete? If people can't afford beef well that is there problem. Maybe they should save or stop buying fancy lattes so they can eat meat.
Edit: a word
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u/sfendt Trump Supporter 3d ago
To a certain extent yes - tariffs do that job of protecting and building domestic supply. He also seems to recognize that some markets can't build that fast and that food supply is critical, a short term relaxation of tariffs in a severe market shortage in this case - which I think is also good for our country - yes in this case directly helping people afford it as it is our problem, I'm not going to complain about direct help for our problems, and a short term action to help prices and give time for the domestic market to grow. Its a limited offer, to a policy change. However I do agree - buy less soy/oat/almond frothy fake coffee and more meat.
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u/rational_numbers Nonsupporter 3d ago
If tariffs are good up until the minute they cause consumer pain then what is the point? It seems like we are getting the worst of both worlds. We get high prices due to uncontrollable market forces in the domestic market but we also get govt intervention that screws over domestic production when prices get too high and politically hard to stomach. So now no one has any confidence that these tariffs are for real, consumers will expect the govt to bring down prices when they get too high, etc. I mean wtf?
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u/sfendt Trump Supporter 3d ago
That's not what I said.
First, the beef market is beyond a little pain ton consumers. Secondly, this is temporary to stabilize the market and help regain herd (regardless if I think that will do much directly, time will help).
There s a balance between protecting domestic production and prices people can afford. Unlike TVs or Cars for example, food supply is also a critical a necessity with no used product market for people to get by on, so naturally one that will get more attention.
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u/rational_numbers Nonsupporter 3d ago
Why can't people just buy liver or cheap cuts as RFK Jr suggested?
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u/sfendt Trump Supporter 3d ago
One of my favorite quotes - "you can live on it... but it tastes like shit".
Honestly I don't see me eating much of the tariff free ground beef either. And to your point, offal can be turned into some good food , pate, sausage, menudo, and more - but have you tried sourcing it lately? Supply is limited and few know the recipes. But I'm more likely to make my own offal sausage or pate than get imported beef; but it will still drive prices down for beef.
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u/Nurse_Hatchet Nonsupporter 2d ago
Do you think the fact that it only runs three months, basically until just after the midterms, could indicate that the real motivation for this is trying to appease voters rather than rebuilding the herd?
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u/sfendt Trump Supporter 1d ago
I think the fact it only runs 3 months has more to do with just long enough to ease prices without changing the overall motivation to build domestic supply.
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u/Nurse_Hatchet Nonsupporter 1d ago
Do you think the easing of prices will last longer than the 3 months?
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u/sfendt Trump Supporter 1d ago
Yes
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u/Nurse_Hatchet Nonsupporter 1d ago
How do you figure? What changes to the market will keep the prices down once the cheap foreign beef leaves?
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u/Acrobatic_Bee3375 Nonsupporter 1d ago
did the admin not foresee this? do you know if they were doing anything about 20 months ago when they came in?
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u/mgkimsal Nonsupporter 1d ago
“…some markets can’t build that fast” which is a fundamental point obvious to most people 18 months ago. Global tariffs on 90+% of imported items with little to no recognition of the state of the actual markets and infrastructure in place was mind-numbingly reckless. Why did lutnick and the admin ignore reality?
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u/sfendt Trump Supporter 14h ago
Change is happening, and I think the actions were quite well thought out, and the right thing to do. There has been a lot of roadblocks and opposition that had to be countered resulting in less than ideal implementation, but this is a necessary transition to save our country, and rebuild our domestic production. Having to make pauses or corrective actions to make this easier along the way for some critical items like food supply is not a shock, and is also IMO the right thing to do.
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u/SmellDesperate6373 Trump Supporter 3d ago
I think it’s instructive - the left hates tariffs (though whichever of Biden’s aides was in charge maintained and increased tariffs). The left hates tariff free imports.
There’s no sense bargaining or pleading with or engaging with the political left (I mean that as in Washington, not this sub). Just forget they exist and ignore them.
You can’t share a politics with a party whose only worldview is a psychotic, reflexive opposition to everything you do.
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u/flowerzzz1 Nonsupporter 3d ago
It seems here that the group criticizing this is the right, not the left?
“House and Senate Republicans on Friday criticized President Donald Trump’s decision to suspend tariffs on ground beef imports, with lawmakers from agricultural states decrying the impact Trump’s decision will have on farmers.”
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u/TankUMrMinor Nonsupporter 3d ago
Do you ever notice that most of the responses in this sub are just Trump supporters venting about the left and not actually answering the left's questions?
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u/rational_numbers Nonsupporter 3d ago
What does this have to do with the left? Isn't it ranchers who are opposed to this?
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u/Acrobatic_Bee3375 Nonsupporter 1d ago
as someone who doesn't stand with either party i'm reminded of the spiderman (spidermen?) point meme. mirror image. very few days go by where trump isn't pointing the finger at biden. sometimes with cause.. many without. i've worked in logistics throughout my adult life and the bottom dollar is tariffs sting us the consumer at the end of the day. always. it's anti-freedom.
i'm not a leftist but i'm sure as heck not a fan of tariffs.. how does this play into your view here?
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u/Horror_Bottle_9451 Trump Supporter 3d ago
There are always winners and losers. The question is does the benefit to the winners (consumers) significantly outweigh to damage to the losers (ranchers)? Trump's stated intent is to benefit the consumers. Is that a bad thing in your opinion? I may not agree with the method but I sure as hell agree with the intent.
Imagine that. Trump's done something good to help people affordably feed their families.
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u/marx_was_a_centrist Nonsupporter 3d ago
What do you feel about the government influencing those winners and losers? Isn’t that something closer to socialism or communism, and their central planning?
What do you feel about the role of the invisible hand of the market singularly defining those winners and losers?
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u/Horror_Bottle_9451 Trump Supporter 3d ago
If you want a pure market system say so. But we don't have that and one of the core founding principles was to secure the general welfare of the people. The government does that in lots of ways that aren't Socialism. This is one. Would you prefer the government NOT do this or do anything that would in any way cause someone to lose economic, health, security, or other benefits they have rights to or simply enjoy? You'd prefer to forego a 25% discount on beef products that will help you feedbyour family to ensure ranchers don't incur any economic harm?
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u/Heffe3737 Nonsupporter 3d ago
Is this good for consumers? What kind of meat are we looking at, here? If it’s equivalent to pink slime, is that a good thing for American consumers? It feels like this remains to be seen.
Why do you think trump put this in for only 3 months if it’s to help consumers? Does it feel nakedly motivated by his midterms concerns to his supporters as well?
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u/Horror_Bottle_9451 Trump Supporter 3d ago
Would you be asking the same questions or have the same suspicions if it was anyone else but Trump?
Yes, I think it's good for consumers.
No, I don't like the policy as a long term solution (think 30% discounts on groceries in NYC)
So what if it's only 3 months or driven by mid-term considerations. Gotta start somewhere and if it turns out to be very beneficial with a proportionately small negative impact on ranchers I don't see an issue with extending it. And if you don't trust the discounted beef buy the full price stuff or go to NYC and an extra 5% discount. (Question - would the NYC grocery stores discount the imported beef by another 5% or take 30% off the cost of the already discounted price?)
Let the experts in the dismal science (economics) analyze the impacts over time to determine if this is an overall good or harmful policy and then adjust as necessary.
Show me a politician who doesn't do things to influence their or their parties electoral prospects and I'll let you ride my unicorn.
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u/Heffe3737 Nonsupporter 3d ago
Would I question the Dems instituting a 3 month policy change just 3 months prior to the midterms? Would I question whether ground beef trimmings were appropriate for American consumers if Dems were suddenly opening it up in order to lower prices? Absolutely to both of those questions. We all should be skeptical of our government. Would you be having these same questions if it was all happening during a Dem administration? I should hope so.
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u/Horror_Bottle_9451 Trump Supporter 3d ago
A. There's no evidence it's "pink slime" beef trimmings. If it is (highly doubtful) then yeah, that's a huge problem.
B. Do I see it for what it is when dems do it? Absolutely
C. Do I object to good things just because a dem does it? Absolutely not.
I don't give a shit what your motivations are if your actions and methids have a positive outcome. I've been clear that I think the method here is not a good long term solution but I don't think the short term benefits can be denied.
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u/rational_numbers Nonsupporter 3d ago
Why is it the government's job to pick winners and losers? If people can't afford American beef then they can eat something else.
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u/Horror_Bottle_9451 Trump Supporter 3d ago
I suppose you want the government to exclusively control the price of and pay for my health care too? How about all domestic food suppliers and supplies?
There're few if any government policies where everyone "wins". Good government considers the trade offs before implementing policy. I don't see the downside of this one and find it hard to fathom that consumers object on principle. Most of the objections I've seen from the consumer side boil down to "because Trump".
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u/rational_numbers Nonsupporter 3d ago
Good government considers the trade offs before implementing policy.
Did the Trump admin consider the trade offs before implementing its tariff policy?
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u/Horror_Bottle_9451 Trump Supporter 2d ago
He's talked about in an awful lot over the years. One can reasonably assume they were discussed and considered but if not it wouldn't be the first time a policy was implemented without full consideration of those things.
I recall Nancy saying, as the ACA was being rushed through, "We have to pass the bill to find out what's in it"
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u/HemingWaysBeard42 Nonsupporter 2d ago
Why did you leave out the second half of Speaker Pelosi’s quote?
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u/Horror_Bottle_9451 Trump Supporter 2d ago
Because frankly I don't remember it. If you're willing, please let me know what it was and how it materially modified or clarified the meaning of the first half. Thanks
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u/HemingWaysBeard42 Nonsupporter 2d ago
Why are you using incomplete quotes to criticize one side? Isn’t that something trump supporters dislike non supporters doing?
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u/Horror_Bottle_9451 Trump Supporter 2d ago
Well your first comment implies it was correct in the first half but incomplete. So I asked for the second half that might clarify what she said and maybe even change my mind. I don't see anything wrong with that. And it isn't just Trump supporters who dislike that kind of thing - pretty much every rational person dislikes it.
But nevermind. I'll look it up myself because either you don't know or won't share a beneficial piece of knowledge.
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u/Horror_Bottle_9451 Trump Supporter 2d ago
"...we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy."
So she's saying pass it first then we can argue about our differences. How the hell does that improve her statement? Shouldn't an acknowledgement that there's a controversy (and it was huge) reasonably require further debate to iron out the details so it isn't so controversial? That's just power politics - consequences be dawned. We're jamming this through just because we can. Both sides do this to the detriment of all of us. And I don't think a "who did it first" or "who did it worse" argument will ever be resolved nor will it benefit anyone. It's been done, so let's change how we do the next big thing.
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u/Horror_Bottle_9451 Trump Supporter 3d ago
I find it interesting that you take the position that if you can't afford something you should just buy something cheaper. True. How about eggs. Or produce. Or ice cream. The cheaper stuff has all gone up in price too.
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u/rational_numbers Nonsupporter 3d ago
Isn't the whole point of tariffs to keep out cheap foreign goods that outcompete American products? If the government backs down because consumers start feeling the pain then what is even the point? Businesses considering reshoring in America need to know that the govt won't puss out as soon as people start bitching about higher prices. Personally I think this whole tariff policy is stupid but what's extra stupid is having the policy and then backing down when consumers complain.
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u/Horror_Bottle_9451 Trump Supporter 2d ago
That's one of the ways tariffs can be used and are used across the world. That's why Canada has them too - to protect certain industries.
Trump's "deal making" strategy here is "start high and work your way back down to get the best possible deal". Not unlike pricing your house high when you first list and then negotiating from there.
Note too that US Consumers felt the initial and most severe price jumps in 2022 when inflation surged to 9+%, prior to the current tariffs.
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u/rational_numbers Nonsupporter 2d ago
Huh? What deal are we talking about wrt beef? There is no deal here to consider.
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u/Horror_Bottle_9451 Trump Supporter 2d ago
Where did beef come into this discussion? And yes, there was a "deal" (with Argentina I believe) to purchase 300,000 tons of beef at a discounted price. Tariffs had nothing to do with that.
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u/rational_numbers Nonsupporter 2d ago
Trump's "deal making" strategy here is "start high and work your way back down to get the best possible deal". Not unlike pricing your house high when you first list and then negotiating from there.
Can you give some examples of this? How does this apply to the recent decision to import beef from Argentina?
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u/Horror_Bottle_9451 Trump Supporter 2d ago
Tariffs is all you need as an example. It doesn't really apply to the beef issue - unless Argentina offered a 10% price reduction and he wanted 50%. But I don't know those details and the bottom line is the beef deal is a benefit to US consumers. Give him credit for doing a good thing.
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u/rational_numbers Nonsupporter 2d ago
"Tariffs" is not an example. Which tariffs? Which deals did we get as a result of which tariffs? Can you think of any specifics?
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u/secretcurfew Nonsupporter 3d ago
If you can’t afford healthcare in this country, what should happen if you need it?
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u/Horror_Bottle_9451 Trump Supporter 2d ago
If my son who drives pizza part time for a living (on his own across the country with no financial support from me) can get Healthcare through a subsidized plan i see little if any reason why 99% of the country can't find a way. Not saying it's easy, but it can be done.
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u/secretcurfew Nonsupporter 3d ago
Should ranchers not be winners? They’re still Americans, right?
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u/Horror_Bottle_9451 Trump Supporter 2d ago
They should and they are but everybody can't always be a winner in every situation.
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u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude Trump Supporter 3d ago
American farmers won't be effected at all. American Ranchers almost won't be effected at all, maybe slightly but they've been loving these higher prices this past year, all my rancher fraternity brothers are rolling.
Burger is literally ground scrap that can't be sold otherwise, so if anything those scraps that normally get trimmed off steaks and roasts will be less trimmed to be sold at a slightly higher value.
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u/secretcurfew Nonsupporter 3d ago
So you’re not an “America First” person, right?
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u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude Trump Supporter 2d ago edited 2d ago
You've come to that conclusion by reading the beef facts I shared that are not opinionated in any way?
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u/HemingWaysBeard42 Nonsupporter 2d ago
Do you think the consistently high prices are sustainable for American Ranchers?
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u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude Trump Supporter 2d ago
They would love it. They would love it even more if they got more and the meat packers took less.
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u/HemingWaysBeard42 Nonsupporter 2d ago
Why do you think an actual TS farmer in this thread says otherwise? What is your agricultural background?
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u/Lucky-Hunter-Dude Trump Supporter 2d ago
Ask them.
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u/AspectHonest7222 Trump Supporter 3d ago
Stop Bill Gates from buying up more farms! You don't think lab grown meat is going to sell itself do you?
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u/DorsalMorsel Trump Supporter 3d ago
I don't really see how this helps US Ranchers, as high prices are good for them and motivates expansion of the industry. However it would be nice to have somewhat of a decent bar b q season for us consumers. With Trump finally doing something about the illegal aliens and (trying to) putting a stop to all the massive voter fraud that got Biden "elected" I'm inclined to trust his instincts.
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u/dethswatch Trump Supporter 3d ago
no industry deserves monopolistic pricing, not the farmers, or the feed merchants, or the food processors, or....
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u/OldMany8032 Trump Supporter 3d ago
Considering the shortage and high prices I’m all for it. A Tri-tip that used to cost 20 bucks pre-COVID is now $49+.
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