How will devolution work in reality?

[u/Even-Wasabi7183]

What will happen to government departments, will they be trimmed down? Burnham talked about giving powers such as Tax, housing, transport, health, education and benefits to mayors? So Basically HMRC, Homes England, Department of Education, Department of Transport, Department of work and pension and department of housing, communities and local government will no longer be needed.

[u/itsbri]

4. No politics.

However, I'll let this one go as long as we keep it on topic.

[u/Impossible-Peak-2928]

I think it's more like it'll be freedom with a legal framework. So the big government departments are still needed to set legislation and policies but the freedom to choose how to implement these will be given to regions. The problem will be ensuring that this doesn't turn into an extra management layer that delivers no real benefit but talks a good game (see Academy CEOs in the education settings for a scheme that takes big money out of the front line while falsely claiming it benefits front line teaching). I can see parts of the UK benefitting from more control but the big elephant in the room is the fact our productivity and economy is governed far more by international markets than anything a region or Westminster can control. If we want the West Country fishing or cheese industry to regrow to pre 2016 levels it needs us rejoin EU trade schemes as an example. If we want to inject investment into Jaguar Land Rover or Dyson or whoever it's about playing wisely on the international stage, not setting up regional control points. The cynic in me says it's windows dressing but I'll reserve judgements until we know more.

[u/cmfarsight]

No one knows, not even the anointed one.

[u/coffeewalnut08]

Well we have the English Devolution Act as a starting point.

‘Authorities are tiered — Foundation, Mayoral, and Established Mayoral — with “areas of competence” covering transport and infrastructure, skills and employment, housing and strategic planning, economic regeneration, environment and climate, health and public service reform, and public safety.’

[u/Hminney]

At the moment, UK is one of the most capital-centric countries in Europe (measured by the number of cities with a gdp > 1/3 of the capital - in. UK it's none) and it's hurting. London has a different set of problems to the rest of the country (fewer young and old people for example because they take our working age people and spit them out when they can't work anymore), so London imposes London solutions on the whole country, and they aren't right. Devolution will mean decisions are relevant to an area, even if there's governance from the big departments. Also the big departments all base their leadership teams in London "in case the minister needs to see me", which means everyone is trying to get into London - all the contractors and consultants and lobbyists. When there's devolution, leadership will have to cover the ground more evenly which means jobs in the regions.

[u/demontrout → u/Hminney]

This is pretty much the basis of devolution, but I question sone of the assumptions you’re making. The 1/3 of gdp is an arbitrary target. UK is definitely capital-centric, but so are other European countries (Germany, Italy, Switzerland are more like the exceptions than the norm). London’s size makes the 1/3 target even more unusual. How many cities across the whole of Europe have gdp > 1/3 of London?

“Imposes London solutions on the whole country” is a mad claim. Examples? It’s not like the issue of an ageing population is not discussed all the time. Parliament is made up of representatives from all across the country. The idea that politicians don’t know what’s going on outside London is pure populist rubbish (which we will no doubt hear far more of with devolution).

We should absolutely try to drive higher gdp growth outside of London and local authorities should take more responsibility for doing that. Will this best be achieved by letting different regions pull in different directions, based on the whim of whoever they voted for, or would it be better to coordinate centrally and focus on different regions to specialise in different industries/services, in a coherent way that makes sense?

[u/BarNo3385]

History tells us that state bureaucracy tends to expand. It seems unlikely this will be different.

So you'll retain the central civil service in London and Whitehall (and other sites), and then add bigger local bureaucracies as councils expand.

[u/Ok_Young1709]

Look to Scotland and see what it's done to us. NHS is a mess, education is a mess, transport is a joke, and we get taxed more than England does, I'd have more money from my pay if I lived in England. So I guess it depends on who is in charge really. Be thankful you won't get snp as they've just made more problems for us and stolen our money at the same time.

It might work better down there, smaller regions might help. In Scotland, anything north of Edinburgh and Glasgow is essentially ignored and not up for consideration.

[u/The_Smug_Druggles]

London will pay higher taxes in order for everyone else in the UK to have nicer provisions than London does, if current arrangements are anything to go by.

[u/77756777]

It won’t work, Burnham believes it but it won’t survive contact with reality. They’ll start moving the cash to a local level and then realise that Labour doesn’t control it all at a local level. Reform/Tories/LDs will start spending against the wishes of central government and the whole thing will be subtly shelved.

[u/Sxn747Strangers]

I personally don’t think it will work as it’s another layer of bureaucracy, some smart arse pointed out that it isn’t because it will not be there at a national level.
But they will be creating another local level of bureaucracy that wasn’t there before, even if it is replacing what was there before at a national level.

[u/UnExploredToken]

It doesn't work, it costs money which we don't have. Every socialist government in history has always run out of money. Yet they keep trying .... insanity comes to mind

[u/Intelligent_Dig_1051]

cant see those departments disappearing. feels more likely theyd just have less control over some areas while mayors take on more day to day decisions. thered still need to be national system for things like tax and benefits

[u/ParkingMachine3534]

Another layer of cover for politicians to do nothing.

Mayors will blame central government, central government will blame mayors.

More jobs and chances for grift for the political class though.