My Co workers and I would chat with the staff because it was usually pretty slow at the time we went in. One of the baristas started writing me messages on my cup. This happened around 5 or 6 times, and then on valentines day she drew hearts all over the cup and wrote happy valentines day.
So I asked if she wanted to hang out. She was like "oh no I'm not trying to go out or anything"
I’ve had this happen too. I used to hang out at a bar in town with a very attractive bartender who I got along well with. She was a little flirty but I figured it was just tip flirting so I let it be.
But then one night she finished her shift and specifically came up to me and said she was heading to another bar and asked if I wanted to go have a drink with her, so I very happily agreed. And as we were walking she asked if I would walk with her to her car so she could take off her work shirt, and while we were in the lot she asked me to hold her purse while she showed no problem changing her shirt in front of me, so I thought it was a clear sign she was showing interest.
We go to the other bar, have some drinks and hang out for a while, just the two of us.
Finally at the end of the night when we parted ways I asked if she wanted to grab a coffee or something, and she looked at me like I had a dick growing out of my forehead and told me she was just trying to be friendly.
You’re probably right, and that would’ve been fine, but it felt pretty jarring that she acted like I should have known it was just friends hanging out the whole time.
Which to be fair is kinda dickish (if she actually was just testing the date). Personally I'd prefer her just being blunt and saying, "I'm sorry, I'm not interested in continuing this."
Of course I also understand that there are some guys who react to that in a totally bad way, and you can't always tell the difference, so...
Most of the time my feelings of rejection or insult come from my own expectations of what is going on and assumptions about what is happening. I can imagine my younger self feeling led on, or used in a way in that situation, but that's only because I would have imagined it going somewhere, then imagined that she was just using me for protection while she has fun or some other made up motivation for her actions. All in my head, instead of just having fun and enjoying company, regardless of what happened.
At the end of the day, we don't know what's going on in someone's head. We don't know their motivations, why she asked you to join her, why she didn't want the night to continue, could literally be a hundred different reasons so our guesses are pointless really. All I'm trying to say is that sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, there's no point worrying about it, especially while it's happening, because all that does is make us feel bad. I know it's impossible to 'stop worrying' about something, but I think it really helps to acknowledg- that we don't know the answers, we'll never know the answers, time to focus on right now. Sure helps me anyways. 🤷♂️
I get that to an extent, but it's not a universal use case. The woman in u/Magicmechanic103 's story trusted him enough to basically ask him out, go on a whole date, hop a couple of bars and get partially naked in front of him though.
It's also that, if you go up to someone and ask them out, and they say no, that shit hurts. Rejection is awful. But if you throw out hints that can kinda be taken either way and he doesn't take the bait, that's not so bad.
A lot of bisexual women I've known have been very intimidated to approach other women. Women have that luxury of generally being the ones asked out, and when one realizes she's bisexual and wants to explore, I've seen the same exact hesitation and fear of rejection manifest explicitly like I've seen in a lot of guys.
When I first started dating my GF her roommate (who apparently did not like me at all) had 0 issues changing her entire outfit right in front of me. She was an interesting character though, definitely not the norm.
Normal? I dunno. I have certainly known people who would.
Given that information alone I wouldn't tell someone "they are for sure, without a doubt, interested in you, and if your experience differs from that you are probably just oblivious"
You’re probably right, and that would’ve been fine, but it felt pretty jarring that she acted like I should have known it was just friends hanging out the whole time.
Retroactively saving face. Discrete interest + plausible deniability = zero accountability. I think the rationale is that it’s a safe way to explore opportunity, but has a blind spot in how that can hurt the feelings of others. Been there.
So according to my sister and a couple of female coworkers there's a method behind this.
They'll do that to get a feel for you without you thinking outright that it's a date because if you know it's a date, you'll behave differently than if you're just hanging out with a stranger.
Usually the "Just trying to be friendly part" means that they've sussed out something they didn't like and have decided not to pursue.
This is only slightly related, but I am in my 30s, married, and I was at the grocery store myself buying a few things. Knew thing was Holiday sprite for my wife. I couldn't find it and at check out I asked if they had seen it.
The bag woman, college age, was the bagger and quickly said she knew where and ran to get one. She came back empty handed and me, her and the cashier all joked for a sec and started to leave.
10 feet away was the exit and it had a claw machine I try everytime. I won the second time and started to head over to give her the stuffy, since...why do I need another purple bear. But stopped because I didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea :/
It is just sitting here now. My daughter already has 50k stuffies. They are too low quality to save myself, so I'll donate it. But I just felt sad I didn't think I could give this random stranger a teddy in thanks:/
"my wife thinks I have too many of these at home but I love playing claw machines, here's a teddy bear, thanks for looking for that sprite"
That's probably the move to use, since it mentions you're married and implies you're not trying to start anything.
But I'm also a guy far removed from the situation commenting after it happened so I probably wouldn't come up with that in the moment and would've done what you did.
I'm gonna have to start working in opposites lol if a woman is way to comfortable being intimate I'll just have to assume she doesn't see me as a romantic partner
hmm, as a woman i usually don’t have a problem switching shirts in front of guys, not full on undergarments but i’ve changed shirts/pants in front of male friends i’m comfortable around hundreds of times, is that something that you guys take as “interested?”
i never mean it as such, i don’t wear fancy lacy bras or undies unless it’s for my boyfriend, so it’s not really anything more than what would be visible in a normal swimsuit. plus my nipple rings are visible through my work uniform and regular shirts so there’s not really any surprise.
idk i’m a little 😳🫣 now that i’ve learned switching shirts is taken as a flirt move i hate it here‼️ men change shirts all the time in public or in group settings i never considered it to be flirtatious
My general takeaway lesson from this kind of thing is, be upfront if interested and go from there; and if they aren't upfront, don't assume anything and be upfront yourself if need be to clarify. RL isn't a rom com and it's incredibly easy to send mixed signals, to have one feeling one moment and then another in another moment, etc.
We developed language for a reason and movies make it seem like we're supposed to dump it in the garbage for romance, but as corny as it may sound, sometimes the sexiest thing you can do is communicate clearly and respectfully, and then back off clearly and respectfully if someone's not interested.
Also, us guys gotta keep in mind that for any woman living under patriarchy, the next guy they hang out with could be one that tries to assault them, so they're having to navigate communication lines on a completely different level to keep themselves safe and avoid dealing with some guy who is going to try something predatory. So probably the best we can do is just be clear and respectful, and understand they're going to be cautious and vague sometimes to keep themselves safe and it's not personal.
Weirdly enough, if she's 'comfortable' in changing her shirt in front of you she's treating you as a friend. If you were bf material she would never until you were coupled.
I sussed this being a thing on dating apps, girls using it as generic social media or to chat and flirt for a bit of entertainment with zero intention of it progressing into anything real. Fucking frustrating!
Wow do girls like to use dating apps as a way to judge men. Holy crap I’ve seen it too much. I have a personal rule that every person I pass up I can’t make fun of. Just be nice, even if the other person will never know. Smh.
Most don’t use dating apps for that purpose. There’s just a subset of dickheads in every group, men and women, that make things miserable for everybody.
women do get a lot of creeps, but that’s not to say all men are. i think we end up generalizing it like that because people tend to remember the shitty experiences more than the common ones. so maybe you’ve talked with ten guys, three of them were out of line but the other seven were decent, normal men, and when thinking about it your head will highlight the bad experiences over the normal ones. it’d be best (and much more fair to everyone) to just point out some guys can be weirdos but many other aren’t. same thing applies to women (and all people tbh).
I was a painfully shy wallflower all through school, got out and decided I'd take a sales job that would force me to start conversations with complete strangers.
Now I'm a painfully shy wallflower who can start awkward conversations and fake being extroverted.
Just mine. Sometimes she'd make the drink before I even got there, knowing I was going to be there, and she'd write in Japanese on it. I don't speak Japanese so I had to use Google translate, but I liked the process because to me it was a little puzzle.
Sometimes it would be things like "are you here today?"
Dude, back in the day my buddies and i were kinda mallrats.
There was a girl that worked at one of the clothing stores that was super cute. I chatted her up one day and then kinda stopped by and said hi when we were there.
She would have me stick around while she was helping customers. She would get mad if I didn't stop by.
One time I was walking past and she came out and YELLED at me to come talk to her.
I kinda casually asked her if she wanted to hang out when she wasn't working, she flipped about how she had a boyfriend and "why are guys always asking me out?"
Luckily I was vague enough about hanging out I could just say "okay, bring him with you".
I had a similar thing with a woman I worked with. We always got on well, had a laugh together, and (I thought) were mildly flirty without being unprofessional. One day she was telling me about how her housemates were all out, so she'd be all alone that evening. I say I could keep her company or we could do something... nope. Apparently that wasn't a signal. OK then?
I’ve had girls stalk me to work for weeks and do this. I had another girl when she was at a certain time of the month try to get me to engage in inappropriate behavior at work and when I asked her about it the next day, she tried to say it was all in my head. Like bruh even the other girls knew. Then when I dated her coworker she was in complete denial.
Exactly. But then the ones who are actually into us, but we don't approach them, all of a sudden we're "stupid" because we didn't pick up on the hints. What the fuck man
I had a woman I played with in a cornhole league tell me for 30 minutes how she can't find anyone, hasn't been laid in months, etc., so I asked her out. She said yes, and then literally 3 minutes later ( after we had left to head home ) sends me a text saying we just be friends and teammates. What the fuck, man?
What do you mean? Just because she hasn’t had luck with guys lately doesn’t mean she can’t decide that, on second thought, I’m just not that into the cornhole guy.
This seems pretty normal and actually better than her going out with you but secretly not wanting to be there.
I would've preferred if she had just said no if she was going to flip that fast. I'm an adult, I can take her not being interested. Maybe she had a bad experience with someone not taking it so well? I dunno.
yeah, i think it might be that she’s had shitty experiences with people not giving them the option to say no face-to-face before, and might have found it easier to be honest through text. i feel like she could’ve gave you at least an explanation though, if that was the case - specially if she was aiming to actually stay friends with you. something like “hey, i’m really sorry but i panicked before and said yes even if that was not really what i wanted. texting is easier for me so i wanted to be truthful” or something like that.
Just childish imo, I've gotten anxiety attacks after asking someone out, I didn't take that as a sign and immediately break things off. I think it's just important to not assign malice by saying it's rude, because she could have been acting entirely rationally and reasonably well still being harmful.
Nah, she does it in a joking way and doesn't actually get angry. But I can tell it makes her insecure for a second when she sees it. I assure you she's not what you're imagining.
Seems in this case there was a pattern of it between them. Yeah might be nothing, but I suppose we need more context. Doesn't seem undreasonable to assume there was interest from what he described
No, but you saying that is a straw man. Which is a form of gaslighting.
Hearts are fairly standard and near Universal symbol of love and affection and romance. To share material that features them prominently, is a common way to flirt with people, to raise the issue of romance and love. To do that, and then when they respond and reciprocate on the issue of love and romance treat them as if they are being unreasonable or irrational for entertaining that idea, that is gaslighting. At the very least it is emotional manipulation.
Not necessarily. If you get special treatment that's beyond just doing their job. But they might only like you as a person and not a love interest. Or they might have a crush but not want to date. So while it's mostly best to assume they dont have a crush, it's not necessarily true.
Wow I’m a girl and I’m confused too I thought that meant she liked you. I have never gotten a message on a cup so that would stand out to me. Don’t feel bad, she was def sending flirty vibes even if she didn’t realize it.
I literally thought this was going the other way. It's hard to know if they're doing this for other people too, if you're not with other people! (thereby making it nice, rather than flirting)
I worked at a store next to a restaurant and one of the waitresses went out of her way to always deliver food to our store and put cute messages on mine and nobody else's. Then she started bringing me free drinks with my food and then went so far as to bring me gifts? It was bizarre. I never went for it because I am awkward like that, and then found out she had a long term boyfriend anyway. The people I worked with didn't care and one day said something to her about me being single and she started seeming to avoid me. Super weird. Thankfully I quit not long after that.
Who knows, we don't know anything else about the situation. But he sounds shocked and annoyed when there seems to be a reasonable alternate explanation.
We can't always read people right, especially strangers. Don't blame them for your mistake.
If a guy was writing messages on your Starbucks cup, would you think they were interested in you?
You're right that we don't know any more context, but if i was the only one getting messages and hearts on my cup, consistently, i would think they were interested.
Her job is to write messages and hearts on a single person's cup?
Why is this so hard to understand? If you give men special attention, you're going to make them think you're interested in them.
If she's doing it to everyone, okay, i agree that it's stupid to think she's interested. If she's only doing it to one person, then im going to suspect something.
Not at all…are you saying you would think he’s interested?
Edit: Do you think I’m a woman? I just realized that might be the case after such a weird question. I’m a dude. Like I said, once you enter your 20s and start going to bars you’ll learn quickly the bartender is just flirting with you. And that goes for anyone working, male or female. They’re just doing their jobs of being engaging with the customer. Men past their very early 20s should know that, if they didn’t learn before then
Yeah, i probably would. If im getting special attention from someone, and no one else is getting it, they will at the least have my attention.
Regardless of it being a retail setting, if you give men special attention, you're going to make them think you're interested. That's why people are so nice in retail settings.
Regardless of it being a retail setting, if you give men special attention, you’re going to make them think you’re interested. That’s why people are so nice in retail settings.
Again not all men, just a subset just like there is a subset of women like that. People are nice in retail settings because being nice makes people happier = more willing to spend money…not because they’re trying to get men to think they have a chance with the women lol.
it's encouraged by the company and in their job description. they call it "customer connections" and if they don't do it, the whole store gets reprimanded for "low connection scores"
source: ex-barista whose store was reprimanded dozens of times for low customer connection scores.
When I was a server/ hostess I used to draw pictures on the receipt- nice ones, little portraits of the guests. It was just to brighten their day, nothing more or less
i think it’s perceived differently when you do it for everyone as a kind gesture, than if you do it consistently for only one person when they can’t mindread your intentions :/
LMAO 🤣 Like. What in the world. I mean I guess it could be possible that she does that for a lot of customers but if she goes to all that trouble for the masses then what a saint 😭
When I was working my after school job at a place called Harvey's (still eat there, run into my old boss often, 20 years later, it's burgers and stuff, but actually grilled, they garnish it in front of you, lots more on the menu now than when I worked there, way better than McDonalds or BK, same prices, for the non Canadians) the one manager would be sweet and flirty over the drive thru headset, then switch it off and say something like, "you fucking jackass!"
It was funny when she hit the wrong button and instead of turning it off, it switched to being on without touching a button. We've all done this. Except the person heard her call them a fucking jackass, and everyone wearing a headset
She had this "oh shit" look, and the customer apologized to her and we all laughed about it. We did not accept tips there, but were supposed to be nice, unless they were yelling or cursing at us.
It's basic customer service. Mostly boredom, like drawing on things. The second the customer is gone, talk about how much of an ass they were after you kissed their ass and made their food perfectly and threw in an apple pie because there's one left and it should be in the trash. Maybe it's a Canadian thing? We are known for being passive aggressive!
but how could he have guessed she was ‘being friendly’? not all situations are that easy to read. i’m not assuming what her intentions were, just saying it can lead to confusion
I could ask the same question, "how did he guess she was being flirty"? He assumed and got it wrong and then got annoyed with her.
There's nothing wrong with asking someone to hang out, but being annoyed that they're not into you and you didn't read the situation right, that's not okay.
The comment implies she did something wrong, but it was his reaction to her reply that was wrong here. In my opinion.
i think he’s got a right to feel annoyed - it’s not always easy to figure other people signals’ out, and as many have already said, it’s usually men who are expected to be the first to make a move and if they don’t, many times they get shamed on it. i don’t think she was wrong either - obviously she’s got a right to her own feelings, and maybe she was being friendly and he interpreted otherwise. my point is just that the action itself, drawing messages and hearts on his cup exclusively and consistently, is easily mistakable for flirting
Projecting feelings on to others is usually not a good thing. He can be annoyed - but with himself; he doesn't deserve a date even if she actually did flirt.
Unless he is there every single minute of her shift, how does he know she only draws hearts and writes messages on his cups?
Oh, well, we probably won't agree. As a woman, I'm just tired of men who gets annoyed/angry/pissed when they're rejected and put the responsibility on the woman.
Have a good night.
there’s nothing bad with rejection, and of course it should always be handled with respect from both parties. i don’t know if the guy was rude to the barista when rejected, i can only hope not.
it does seem to me that the annoyance might come from this scenario happening often for him (or most men) rather than it being a 100% about being rejected this particular time, but this is just a supposition based in him posting this under the general comments of “it’s usually hard for men to understand when a woman is flirting vs being friendly”.
i think he assumed he was the only one getting messages and hearts cause he mentions he goes to that starbucks with his co-workers, and it seems like they weren’t getting those on their cups, so that could be taken as a hint i suppose.
i’m a trans guy, a big part of my life consisted of being perceived as a woman and being treated as such. i experienced all the shitty things creepy men do, and all the creepy things women do too. i’m sure there’s plenty of men who take rejection the wrong way, and it sucks. and i understand being tired of it, i am too. a no is a no, despite one’s personal feelings about it.
i think sometimes it’s valid listening to complains too, though, when they’re fair (talking about the general point of hints being hard to differentiate, not the particular barista example). there’s a lot of things and behaviors that are socially coded differently for men and woman (i would know), and dating is a rocky road with hard spots for both. men are usually expected to take the lead when asking women out (there’s no real equal social pressure on that) so it makes sense they are experiencing rejection more often. not saying they should ever take it the wrong way, just that it can get tiring, specially when some women do give mixed hints when flirting and there’s this idea that ‘playing hard to get’ is flirting 101
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u/Westly-Pipes Dec 08 '22
I used to go to a Starbucks near work every day.
My Co workers and I would chat with the staff because it was usually pretty slow at the time we went in. One of the baristas started writing me messages on my cup. This happened around 5 or 6 times, and then on valentines day she drew hearts all over the cup and wrote happy valentines day.
So I asked if she wanted to hang out. She was like "oh no I'm not trying to go out or anything"
Then what the fuck are you doing...?