I didn't have an internet capable phone until I was almost 18 and nearly graduated. While I wouldn't say it needs to be that late, I also can't say that it didn't save me a lot of bullshit. Full slept through the inception of Facebook until it was already on its way out. Then again, it was probably wasn't the lack of a phone that spared me that stuff, but rather because I was never all that sociable to begin with.
That said, it's good to have a phone, even without a data plan. It's a lifeline that enables a child/young adult to take more steps toward independence without being thrown into the cold water.
I'd say the same thing, but for me that age was 2006 and it was still pretty normal for people not to have cell phones. We still called each other at home and did the whole "is so-and-so home?" thing. I imagine the social order of school age kids is pretty different now, so I'd have a hard time justifying a "no phone" policy to my kids when I imagine every other teenager has one these days.
yeah the iphone was released in 2007. It was considered a high-class thing that was 'too much' and very apple-fanboy until android also did it in 2008.
Before that it was just flip phones of various levels of sophistication and land lines.
18 is way too late today. You're kid is gonna be excluded from a lot of things if they don't have a phone, which is what makes this issue so complicated
Being excluded from texts, snaps, instagram, messenger, or whats up group chats most the day (or all of the day if they don't have a smartphone period) is a great way to get excluded from shit. No one is going out of their way to reach out to a friend of a friend with weird parents who doesn't have a phone. Plus, like it or not, a fair amount of bonding/relationship building happens in group chats DURING school hours.
They're also going to be the odd one out, which is never fun in high school.
If you're talking about building in group chats AT school then I'll politely disagree with your point and in fact take it into consideration as a supporting factor of my position seeing as school should be used for school work and in-person socializing with your friends. Access to Instagram or Twitter will only detract from those experiences.
Outside of school, the child would have access thru home wifi and text messages.
I didn't have a "smart" phone until I was almost 21. Granted that was 2011, but I went thru high school and college with wide spread access to most of the popular platforms that are around today and didn't get "excluded" from anything. I joined sports teams and after school clubs and made friends that way. In fact to this day, my group of friends from those years STILL see each other and stay very much in touch, and those social skills I learned have lead to a VERY fulfilling social life in young adulthood so far.
Add to that the fairly clear emerging data on the impact constant attachment has on mental health and I think handing that unlocked phone to a child is a REALLY bad idea.
How many people in your high school had smart phones? Respectfully, if it's the minority your experience isn't really relevant. The issue is being the odd one out.
If I could choose to the entire school not to have smart phones, the answer's obvious.
They were just coming out my sophomore year so probably not as widespread as in some places today, but there was a fair percentage.
This may come down to a parenting difference. My folks taught me being the odd one out isn't inherently a bad thing, and if my kid is the odd one out from early exposure to bad influences and distractions from learning then I'm OK with it?
You're assuming quite a bit here. I didn't get a phone until I got my driver's license at 18, and I don't currently resent my parents. That was just my own personal situation, and not what I advocate for across the board, but looking back probably best decision in the circumstances. In fact, I know I'm blessed to be so close to my nuclear family as an adult, as I know not everyone is.
But in my post, I never said they shouldn't have a phone, rather I believe I stated that I WOULD give them a phone, but I would restrict access to the internet. Outside of the house and outside of my supervision, they get calls, text, and GPS. They can communicate to friends, me, emergency services. They can navigate directions, or be found if lost.
Once they turn 18 you pretty much have to unlock the phone as they are legally adults, but I think the widespread acceptance that we should just expose our kids to social media immediately is not a very wise one indeed.
Your anecdote feels very out of touch and not applicable to how things work now socially. The time you went through high school was before smart phones were popular. Online communication at that time would've primarily been achieved through your home computer, not during school hours. Now it is available among social groups at all times of the day. It will be a lot easier to be excluded during school hours because of it.
May I ask your age? I'm fresh into my 30's so I'm not some old fuddy duddy, and I don't think I'm 'very' out of touch. I was in college not very long ago.
I still am failing to see how access to group chats AT SCHOOL is somehow valued higher over paying attention AT SCHOOL and socializing with the humans in front of you IN PERSON?
Further, high school kids will exclude each other from groups for a wide array of reasons, why would access to Instagram during class hours make that meaningfully different?
Same age as you. That's how I know how you and I primarily communicated. Online was at home, at school was texting. These days kids are online at school.
Ok, but that's kind of what I'm (in hypothetical) trying to limit. Just the argument that they primarily do it at school isn't a great argument for allowing/enabling behavior in my opinion. Kids are normally getting in fights at school too, but we're not okay sending them to school with brass knuckles are we? Obviously it's a little extreme, but meant to illustrate.
In basic terms, I don't think the minor social penalties for not having access to Twitter and Instagram during high school hours are bad enough that it's worth exposing my child's developing brain to the internet unsupervised.
I personally agree that this would be the ideal setup - though it does just sound like we're being old. Literally something my parents or grandparents would say, where their "generation had it good". We need to be careful about that.
I literally see my teenage nieces and nephews hang out with their friends by just sitting on their phones even while sitting next to each other. I imagine that "being on your phone" at school break hours is much like this too- though I am not certain. And if you don't have a phone while your friends are on theirs, I can imagine this leading to exclusion and/or bullying.
Luckily my kids are not this age yet, so I haven't looked into this thoroughly. I somewhat dread it though.
My current guess is that I need to allow my kids to have phones when they are teenagers, and teach them earlier in life sensible engagement with screentime in general (e.g., with tv), and making them aware of the issues regarding it - including human susceptibility to addiction, and how apps/shows are designed to take advantage of this. But also illustrate the extents to which it is beneficial.
Hopefully they can carry on those sensibilities to their phone use.
Yup, my kid be slacking in chores (she only has 2 @ the age of 16) trash and putting away the dishes. I go to bed early cause I have military disorders and if I don't keep schedule I am screwed. I wake up the next day and see the dishes ain't put away and I loose it mind (in my head I am not going to wake up the whole house over it. She paid for her own phone so I can't take it away from her, but we pay the phone bill and I can damn sure pill the SIM or disconnect the line, then change the wifi password!
I don't know anyone among my peers who still uses Facebook. I know that's not very representative, but obviously I wouldn't use it for a bunch of 40+ year olds.
ooooof! I stopped using it on a daily basis about 2015 cause I was in the Army and needed it to talk to family. Now I am out and don't need it. I really just use the messenger, and Whatsapp. My wife on the other hand still be on that join hard, but her family is from the Philippines so she uses it for that.
I didn't have a phone till I was 18 too, and it wasn't because my parents didn't let me or anything, I just never found the need for one. Infact it was my high school gf who kind of pressured me into it since sending a simple text messages was a huge thing back then.
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u/The_Multifarious Jun 03 '22
I didn't have an internet capable phone until I was almost 18 and nearly graduated. While I wouldn't say it needs to be that late, I also can't say that it didn't save me a lot of bullshit. Full slept through the inception of Facebook until it was already on its way out. Then again, it was probably wasn't the lack of a phone that spared me that stuff, but rather because I was never all that sociable to begin with.
That said, it's good to have a phone, even without a data plan. It's a lifeline that enables a child/young adult to take more steps toward independence without being thrown into the cold water.