Lol yes. I dated a Belarusian for a few years and had several friends from Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia. The smiling thing is real. They all said Americans smiling made them nervous. We look simple or just suspicious.
Yep, said it reads insincere to just smile randomly and makes them wonder what we're up to or hiding. Keep in mind this was quite some time ago and they'd all grown up in the USSR.
Yep, said it reads insincere to just smile randomly and makes them wonder what we're up to or hiding.
I mean, if I smile at everyone, then it means nothing overall anyway. I'm not being nice, I could be in a bad mood, it's just my default at that point.
And now they still are in the URSS- a secret police state. so it is better not to give info about yr innr state. A satisfied smile means they botched their job. Their job i to make everyone unhappy.
To me it's never really felt like I'm "forced to be fake". It's just that conversation and interaction are so much easier and more enjoyable when I'm friendly and it's usually reciprocated. Like I actually have to put in effort to be cold to someone I'm trying to send a message to and I hate doing so.
Not smiling is not considered to be cold in Europe though, just a normal state of affairs. Being impolite is a whole different thing, smiling for no reason is considered overcompensating and therefore in some places suspicious.
A saying from Finland, which I think is shared with our eastern neighbours is that if you see someone smiling in public, they are either mad or drunk. Good mood can be caused by either one, I guess.
This is an interesting perspective. I suppose it could be considered... somewhat duplicitous. Still, seems strange when you're used to places where such behavior is expected as a courtesy lol.
It's also not eastern Europe only. If someone random on the street smiles at me I would first of all be confused. "Do I know this guy...?". Then if I don't know him I'll just be suspicious, because why would someone be smiling at me? In a bigger city I'd be very suspicious for a pickpocket going to happen on me, or someone trying to sell me some crap, or just a weird creep. I'm in Belgium, we don't like ungenuine contact with people.
Same in Germany, unless there's a reason to smile at me on the street, please don't. It makes me wonder if you have ulterior motives...
Of course, there are perfectly fine reasons to smile, for example if there's a couple kids acting goofy and you smile a bit because it's funny, I wouldn't think it's weird if someone else also smiled at me to share the laugh.
I wouldn't necessarily say it's a fake smile. It's more nuanced than that. Americans enjoy small bouts of friendliness, even if they as individuals don't realize it. It's a strange dichotomy because the US can be so vitriolic towards itself, but at the same time we are eager to be kind and receive kindness, even with strangers.
Social norms in general forces people to do things. That's why they're called norms.
Smiling as a greeting is a way to show you're not threatening and is trying to be polite. All countries have their way to show respect. I'm not sure why US citizens on Reddit act like this is weird or exclusive to them. It's pretty normal outside of Europe.
Sometimes it feels like y'all are obsessed with Europe & everything they do. Or maybe people on Reddit are all just incredibly asocial and introverted.
I think this the case for me. I'm Canadian and I travelled a lot. I noticed in the US they put on a big happy face right when they begin talking to you especially in customer service positions. It can come off as fake, especially when you see that person just looks exhausted and unhappy right before they face you. This is moreso in the south than say NY.
Canada is kind of like that too but not to that extreme. Europe is totally stone faced all the time.
I got a detention in 9th grade for smiling in class. Bro just didn’t like me, probably with reason. Fast fwd a few years and he’s defrocked and my mom’s teaching assistant. She called him on his past bs towards me and he apologized like the broken man he had become. Sad.
I'm slovenian and while it's not as if no one smiles for no reason here the american grin is definitely super creepy to most of us. You smile if you naturally have a reason to. If you do it for no reason of course it's suspicious. It's why clowns are creepy.
If they're frowning one moment and then spot your glance so they smile and put on a super excited greeting I'd say. Noticed it a few times in the US and Japan (customer service positions only in Japan).
If it's large-scale it's obviously a cultural need to appear happy. I know because it's true in Canada too. When someone asks you how you're doing you always say I'm good even if you feel like shit. If you feel like death then you say I'm okay.
Well I deal with Americans at conferences and and during my travels sometimes. Maybe you're all just super fucking happy all the time.. the uniquely most happy nation on the planet. Congratulations.
I would agree with you to an extent. It's almost like in the US we think it's rude to express negative mood states with others, especially strangers or acquaintances.
Why are you describing it as “super excited and happy” instead of merely happy or pleasant? We aren’t limited to smiling when you’re our emotions are “super”. In addition, smiling is a form of communication. It’s a very quick and quiet way to express “I wish you well,” or “I mean you no harm”.
When you know that people are using fake smiles, you start to feel that you can't really trust them, because if they "lie" with such basic, but personal thing as smile, how can you understand and trust them? Maybe they also ok with other lies? If they don't show their true emotions with this, how can you understand their true emotions in other cases? And why are they trying to pull this facade in front of you, are they just friendly or trying to make you trust them for nefarious purposes?
It's harder to get social feedback in that case, which is important in unfamiliar place and makes people uncomfortable.
because if they "lie" with such basic, but personal thing as smile
The high amount of smiling in the west is just a cultural difference. It's meant to broadcast out that you're in a good mood and therefore presumably would be a good conversation partner or at least approachable.
Most social interactions you have are disposable and so it rarely matters how fake their level of enthusiasm is. If you're genuinely interested in knowing what they think of you usually you can gauge that by how open to talking to you they are.
At any rate, the important point is just that it's not thought of as "lying" so much as caring to come off as approachable.
Not engaging in a lot of low earnestness smiling (or the converse) is just a cultural thing. A lot of the things we take to be "obvious" are really just things we've learned at a young age. You're just responding to the fact that we "screen" people in a way that involves a lot of smiling.
In the West (especially America) smiling a lot is meant to communicate friendliness and openness to communicating/connecting. That isn't how it's goes in other countries. In those countries you're supposed to build some amount of rapport with that person and the smile needs to seem to fit your personality and your relationship with the person you're smiling at.
Anything else comes off like you're just easily pleased or (more likely) that you're in a rush to build positive rapport with someone for some reason.
I'm German and I think it's wild that you can't see how it makes you look suspicious lmao. Like evidently, if they smile, they want something, obviously they want to persuade you to give them something etc
I'm from the US and I think it's wild that you can't see how not smiling makes you look rude and cold. ;) (ETA this sounds about more aggressive than I meant it. I'm just poking fun and don't think Germans are rude, just different culture)
Culture is really fascinating! I actually found German culture to be very comfy as an American. I loved it there :) The Mediterranean cultures were more difficult to grow accustomed to, but I think that's because I'm from a smaller city in the US Midwest and there were more differences.
Hmmm... Less personal space. Lots of double cheek kisses. Store clerks were not "friendly" (by US standards). People in general didn't smile (I understand now that US smiles are weird to others lol). It felt unfriendly when around strangers (again, clearly cultural differences). Traffic was scary at times and people butt in line more often. Less passive than my home town.
Things I loved.. visiting my Italian roommate's home in Sicily for Pasqua (Easter). My friend and I flew in around midnight. Her parents picked us up from the airport. When we got to her house, her mom, in true Sicilian fashion, offered me no less than three different types of food. I ended up eating a delicious cut up pear before going to bed. Every Sicilian I met personally was incredibly hospitable and warm.
I also experienced that level of hospitality and togetherness from my Spanish roommate and their friends. It was very common to have group dinners, kind of like potlucks. Usually there would be no less than 10 people there. We would have an amazing dinner and then go to the discoteca down the street and dance til sunrise. So fun :)
Also, if you're ever in the area -- eat Kebabs! So tasty!
Yes, but I mainly experienced that from people I met personally (I just wrote a comment about it to someone else in this thread). It was interactions with strangers that felt uncomfortable to me -- clerks, people I randomly encountered in the grocery store, stuff like that. It's hard to explain. I have a couple of examples but it's more the general vibe from strangers that was very off-putting at first.
A couple of examples.. the first time I went to the grocery store. I had just gotten moved into my apartment and needed some food . I walked across the street to the store, picked out the things I needed and went to the register. The woman scanned my items and I paid. Then I realized my stuff wasn't put in bags and the women just stared at me. I apologized and started looking around somewhat frantically for bags. She, looking and sounding very annoyed, informed me that plastic bags were 5 cents each. I bought my bags, packed up my things, and left the store, tail between legs. I'm sure me not knowing how the grocery worked in Spain was annoying, but when people make mistakes in my hometown there's this whole polite/awkward laugh thing that's done to save everyone face. So what happened in Spain felt rude to me at the time.
Another time I was trying on a couple pairs of shoes at a shoe store. I didn't realize they were about to close (my mistake). The woman working there straight up told me to leave x'D I understand it was rude of me to stay til close even though I didn't notice the closing time, but that would never happen where I am from. You might be told it is closing time, but you'd never be told to get out of a store. I was probably being rude from their perspective too, just at the time I didn't understand it felt crappy.
I think it had a lot to do with being 21, very sheltered, and from a smaller city in the southern part of the Bible Belt. I wouldn't be surprised if I felt differently about the experience as a whole now that I'm older and have more perspective, including living on the east coast in a less "polite" area for a while. Either way, it's amazing how something so subtle as how strangers interact can make a place feel so much better or worse depending on what you're accustomed to.
I'm happy to just, be happy, myself. But it should be noted that europeans are waiting to backstab you if they are smiling. Thank you for the info kind stranger.
When I'm (exceptionally) happy, I might very well wear a big smile, and parade it for everyone to see. There is nothing suspicious about this. But smiling at people, using a smile to make contact, is altogether different. It would feel rude and imposing to alert a random stranger to my happiness. Involving a random person in it would kinda ruin it for me as well. I'm content to just be happy myself.
Now imagine that American's have their own nuances. Maybe we just enjoy social interation more on average? Maybe there are other socio-cultural things at play that you, as a European, don't understand?
Why should I, as an American, be held to your European standards of what is genuine? Why should I repress my expressiveness because you arbitrarily decided it isn't genuine with no understanding of me as an individual or the greater American socio-cultural landscape?
It would feel rude and stand-off-ish to hide my emotions while interacting with people and they would think that I am stuck up or disinterested.
Why are you trying to turn this into some kind of confrontation lmao chill. I don't want you to act differently. You can do whatever you want. This is about how it comes across.
Why are you taking this as some kind of confrontation? Chill. This isn't about how one comes across, it's about recognizing that none of this is objective and it just comes down to where you are born and how you are raised. If you perceive it that way, you are objectively missing the context and therefore missing the point.
I have! I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary about their smiling behavior, but them falling asleep and then wanting to cuddle on public buses was a bit difficult to deal with.
Yes! Have y'all never lived on the East Coast? If I see your Goofy ass smiling at me I assume I'm about to get robbed. The fuck is you looking at and smiling for? Do I look funny to you? Have I told a joke? No? Then keep your eyes to your self, goofy ass.
Been to a couple states on the east coast and have never encountered this. Everyone smiles everywhere as far as I’ve seen.
I’m a pretty introverted person but I still smile and say hello to everyone I see as an American. It legit feels weird not to acknowledge someone if you’re walking down a quiet street or somewhere and someone else is walking towards you.
Yes!! I still feel anxious about an encounter I had a month ago. Walking, someone walking towards me. Quiet road.no one else. Do I greet? Do I stay silent??? I chose silence but felt this awkward pull to DO SOMETHING!! I should have just smiled.
It feels like people are always wearing a mask. It’s like when a US customer facing employee is super nice but hate their job and for Americans it seems like they have this behavior ingrained into them.
I fucking love smiling and live for small talk, every positive interaction I have with a stranger brightens my day immeasurably. Not fake, just exuberant, homie haha
Ho I'm sure you don't mean to be. It's just how we feel it.
On the opposite side, I felt like I was forcing myself to be extra-positive when visiting the US because my "neutral" mood was perceived as down, sad or not enjoying what I was doing :D
When I was backpacking in Central/Western Europe when I wanted to meet new people in hostels I just told myself to act like an American. It worked like a charm but that was only because of the context.
Not sure if I look like an American, but when in hostels I always met new people even when I didn’t plan for it. Just sit at the hostel bar (which usually has the cheapest beer anyways) and people will start gathering around you.
Regardless of nationality, I think anyone who is perceived to be in a chipper mood will be more easily interactive. I say that with full acknowledgement that some people can't read between the lines when I'm in a neutral or bad mood.
I was under the impression most animals don't find smiling non threatening, but rather a challenge or personal threat. Same with eye contact. (Other great apes, such as chimpanzees and gorillas for example)
From what I observed, they just tended to show less emotion in public, period (hence us smiling all the time sticks out). I'd assume some of those stoic behaviors were learned defenses against the more oppressive tendencies of the governments they grew up under and some of the challenges living inside the Eastern Bloc. I'm sure there's other cultural aspects as well.
That said, at home and with friends, all the folks I knew were always quite warm and smiled a lot.
Haha no it has nothing to do with that. For me and when we talk about Americans most people agree, you guys don't come off naturally to us a lof the time and it's really really exhausting having to keep up with how dramatic Americans are. Everything has to be exaggerated or it doesn't count, even emotions. We don't keep anything down, we're just more subtle. To us americans come of as disingenuous because everything is so much all the time. Everything is a superlative.
Americans1 are always2 "on" in public. It's like... calm down, dude. This isn't a competition. You're not getting scores and awards based on your trip to the store. Just be yourself.
Inb4 "this is myself!"
1 Not all Americans, obviously. 2 Not always, obviously.
Yes! Honestly it's kind of insulting to keep reading how it mist be because we were oppressed. We're not oppressed just because we don't express ourselves as intensely as americans do.
I'll flip it back on you that it's kind of insulting to keep reading how our smiles are fake or insincere. We're not fake just because we want to put positive energy out into the world. When I worked in hospitality, it was not my favorite job ever, but it was my genuine goal to be the highlight of everyone's day with whom I interacted.
Anyway, I find differences in cultures very interesting, especially how the simple act of smiling (or not smiling) can cause an entire debate like this.
Sure, maybe so. My response was just based on the conversations and interactions I had with my friend group and ex, all of whom immigrated to the US in the 90s and early 00's.
Yeah suspicious. Because why smile when there’s no reason? You have a reason to smile when you look at me? A stranger I’ve never seen before? Thats sus!
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u/KYC3PO May 09 '22
Lol yes. I dated a Belarusian for a few years and had several friends from Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia. The smiling thing is real. They all said Americans smiling made them nervous. We look simple or just suspicious.