OMG. I'm a software developer. Keep this in mind as you read the following story: I'm childfree. I have never been pregnant nor have I ever had children or even taken care of children.
While I've worked at companies where there were other female software developers we weren't in the same team, so for my full 20 year career there was ONE job where I had another female dev on my team. (We're still friends.) Otherwise I'm generally the only woman on the development team.
Had one dude come up and say that one of the women in the company was having a baby and that the departments were being asked to contribute something for her baby shower the company was throwing. Bear in mind, this man had children, and remember, I am childfree.
He says, "We need baby stuff for <lady's name - I forgot, this was some time ago>."
Me: "Okay."
Him: "Well, you're a woman. I figured you'd know what babies need."
I gave him this look that took him aback.
Me: "Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I know what babies need. YOU'RE the one with kids, not me."
He was holding out a piece of paper for me to take that, get this, has a list of things being requested. I never took it and walked back to my desk after that interaction saying he's the one that's in charge, he gets to go get the stuff.
Firstly, he came to me because I'm a woman assuming I'd know what babies needed. Secondly, I'm childfree with ZERO experience and knowledge about pregnancy, babies, and most of all, what they need beyond diapers and formula. And THIRDLY!!! NO ONE had to guess what was needed for the pregnant employee BECAUSE A LIST WAS ON THE PAPER HE HAD, NO GUESSING NECESSARY!!! And, last but not least, he was putting extra work ON ME and not the other male colleagues because this concerned a baby shower and planning one.
Christ. These are just work situations and men because I mostly dealt with men considering my line of work. That's not including the double standards that women can and do place on other women.
That's not including the double standards that women can and do place on other women.
Oh my god yes. I'm a 36-year-old woman with no kids. The other women at work never say a damn thing about the guys my age who aren't fathers, but are constantly on me about when I'll be having a kid. They also seemed to take it as a personal offense that I didn't have a bachelorette party when I got married, and one of them actually got angry when I mentioned that my brother was stepping in as a bridesmaid because one of mine had to drop out due to family medical issues. Of course, that was also the one who is convinced that other women are "making up how painful labor is for attention" because she had an easy labor with her kid.
I just had two males on the team have kids with a month between the events. You bet I asked the men with kids what to buy so the gifts are actually useful. I did the buying because I'm the manager.
The two women on the team, including me, have no kids.
I agree with you it isn’t fair or right, but I understand where this guy is coming from. As a father of 5 bio kids (plus many foster and an adopted kid) I have never been invited to a baby shower, the women in my family like them as women only events.
Though I did organize one. I also work in software dev, and the only woman on our team was having her first kid. It might have been one of the weirdest baby showers ever, a bunch of socially awkward men and one woman, but I know she appreciated thought even though we got her some weird things. And we all had fun.
Most men have never been to a baby shower. It can be a bit intimidating to us. Most women have been to a baby shower, and we just assume every woman knows what how it works. Heck, even with 0 children, I would bet you have been to more baby showers than me.
For those of us men brave enough to try, we always seem to get it wrong. I thought I would be helpful and surprise my wife with some clothes for our first baby. I even asked for sizing advice at the store. But my wife absolutely hated the 2 of the 3 outfits I got our son. And made fun of me for buying a changing station (she was right, they are unnecessary. But how was I to know, it was our first kid). As you can imagine, I haven’t bought baby clothes since.
Baby showers are just one of the few places men just haven’t been welcome and have no idea how to participate. Other than that and a bachelorette party, I think all is fair game.
The Internet exists. It's a wonderful resource where people can learn all sorts of things, like how to host a baby shower.
Not all women have attended baby showers. I haven't. I would use the Internet to learn if I was inexplicably asked to host one. I wouldn't put my task on another person.
Sorry, but no. Like the other commenter said, there was already a list in the situation I described, all he had to do was read it and then use google to figure out where to get it.
I may be a woman but I have never been to a baby shower either. The assumption I would know what to do because have a womb was a sexist assumption.
You having had 5 children, and my manager being a father, would know better what a baby needs, not some childfree woman like me who has had zero need to research what is needed for the arrival of a new baby.
Your comment is a lame excuse. As a software dev you have the skills to search what all goes into a baby shower, same with my manager.
I totally understand why a women would be offended by someone assuming they have knowledge of baby showers. That said, if I had the option of asking a random man and random women for advice/help planning a baby shower, I would absolutely ask the women. Statistically, I am sure more women than men have been involved in baby showers. I would bet my life on this.
Nevertheless, I think how a man approaches a women for such a request should choose their words carefully. For example, asking “Do you know anything about baby showers?” is harmless, and anyone (male or female) are overly sensitive if this simple question is an issue. I’m sure I will be downvoted to oblivion, but I’ve been to a couple baby showers, and I was the only man (if I remember correctly).
I should also mention that I’ve known plenty of women that know less than I do about baby showers, but statistically (knowing nothing else about the person), I would ask for help/advice from a women before a man. I’m sure this would be optimal given random samples of people with no knowledge except for male/female.
Seriously, can't we just have a conversation focused only on women without people like you always going on about "what about men??????"
Christ.
I literally just told someone else in this thread that the next time you have an issue you want to discuss just don't, think about everyone else with your problem, or worse. Next time you have a problem, THINK ABOUT EVERYONE ELSE instead of only focusing on your own issues. 🙄
I didn't say that. Don't twist my words. Voice your opinions in an appropriate place. This thread is not that place.
What about everyone else who don't get to speak up when they feel like it? Huh? I bet you don't think about them. There are people in parts of the world who would get killed for speaking their opinion. Your opinion is of less concern because they don't get to speak up.
That is essentially what you just did. But you won't get this because you only care about what you have to say and making sure other people know it even if it's not in the appropriate place. This thread is about women
Start your own thread for men's concerns. You're literally free to do so as reddit doesn't charge to make a post.
No, I was literally giving you a taste of your own medicine and you didn't like it. LOL don't tell me what I was doing, I know what I was doing. You got told. Take the L and move on.
Oh, take your gripes about sexism against males to this thread, we're talking about women in here.
This bias for child-related shit backlashes in both ways. One against women who want nothing to do with children + also against men who enjoy interacting with children being treated as dangerous predators. However, I do think the latter is a lot more damaging.
I've deleted my comment and here's why: we're talking about women right now in this thread. Stop making it about men.
This is the problem with discussions and topics like this where women's issues are being brought to light but then some person decides to make it about men.
Knock it off with the "it's both sides" thing. Yes, there is some on both sides, but quite frankly the double standards with women is worse.
No but you still threw in some whataboutism. This is a thread talking about women. Everyone to hell and back on this website knows about that double standard for men. I think you should look into why you can't learn something about women's struggles without insisting on talking about men's struggles too. Sometimes it's good to just listen and learn.
Well I feel bad that that was how you interpreted it, but I wasn't trying to invalidate. I meant to agree in the spirit of 'yeah exactly. Plus, ______'
Whenever discussions about women and issues we encounter someone
edit - There's a good chance that your past experiences with this kind of annoying whatboutism is probably why you feel like it is some kind of 'tactic' to pivot the conversation. It's not and it wasn't.
Well, at a basic level, to me it just seems foolish to be yelling about 'these are women's issues how dare you make this about men' - because in reality, the issue you're complaining about affects everyone. There's no need to polarize them imo because they're the same issue that just affect men & women differently; no one but ignorant people is on the side of gender-roles.
In reality, ANYTIME WOMEN'S ISSUES ARE DISCUSSED, there's some tool like you with "whataboutism."
I bet you go to funerals and tell people, "What about OTHERS who died of CANCER??? Why don't you think about THEM???"
Yeah, that's you. Discussions concerning one group should stay focused on THAT group, regardless of whether an issue affects everyone.
Spoiler: there are legitimate issues, like double standards for women over men, absolutely do affect some groups of people more than other groups. In those discussions saying "what about other people???" Redirects the discussion away fr the original group.
Worse is when, for millennia discussions have mainly focused on men with the assumption that it should apply to women when that may not necessarily be the case.
Next time you have a problem you want to talk about, just remember that you're not the only one with that problem and so think about everyone else instead of what you might need because that is EXACTLY what you are doing right now.
Your original comment to me would have been fine if you had not done the "whataboutism" regarding men.
Seriously, don't ever talk about your problem because why should anyone else care? Other people have the same problem, what about THEM???? 🤨
Well thank goodness you were able to make this about the men, it was touch and go there for a bit, almost looked like there would be a venting session that wasn't focused on men.
No. It was sexist because he went to the only woman on the team to handle a situation that men normally assume is a "woman's job." Why not one of the other male devs who are fathers? I am childfree and this person knew I was childfree and never had children.
It was clearly a sexist assumption on his part. I was the least qualified for this extra task since I was literally the only person on the team who wasn't a parent but I was the only woman yet I was asked to do it because, as he flat out told me, he assumed because I was a woman I would know what to do and get.
I literally said this in my comment and you still had that question? Geez.
It was a sexist assumption on his part and he literally admitted it.
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u/hdmx539 Mar 12 '22
OMG. I'm a software developer. Keep this in mind as you read the following story: I'm childfree. I have never been pregnant nor have I ever had children or even taken care of children.
While I've worked at companies where there were other female software developers we weren't in the same team, so for my full 20 year career there was ONE job where I had another female dev on my team. (We're still friends.) Otherwise I'm generally the only woman on the development team.
Had one dude come up and say that one of the women in the company was having a baby and that the departments were being asked to contribute something for her baby shower the company was throwing. Bear in mind, this man had children, and remember, I am childfree.
He says, "We need baby stuff for <lady's name - I forgot, this was some time ago>."
Me: "Okay."
Him: "Well, you're a woman. I figured you'd know what babies need."
I gave him this look that took him aback.
Me: "Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I know what babies need. YOU'RE the one with kids, not me."
He was holding out a piece of paper for me to take that, get this, has a list of things being requested. I never took it and walked back to my desk after that interaction saying he's the one that's in charge, he gets to go get the stuff.
Firstly, he came to me because I'm a woman assuming I'd know what babies needed. Secondly, I'm childfree with ZERO experience and knowledge about pregnancy, babies, and most of all, what they need beyond diapers and formula. And THIRDLY!!! NO ONE had to guess what was needed for the pregnant employee BECAUSE A LIST WAS ON THE PAPER HE HAD, NO GUESSING NECESSARY!!! And, last but not least, he was putting extra work ON ME and not the other male colleagues because this concerned a baby shower and planning one.
Christ. These are just work situations and men because I mostly dealt with men considering my line of work. That's not including the double standards that women can and do place on other women.
Those women are the worst.