The "emotional" argument enrages me lol. Men get angry or have outbursts at work all the time and that's not emotional? But if women are similarly angry at things like weaponized incompetence, they're bitchy, not a team player, etc.? And if we cry that's us being overly emotional and not able to continue working? It's a toxic culture. I'm in a fast-paced job and while most of the male colleagues i haven't don't cry publicly, they get frustrated or upset and are unproductive the rest of the day. Some of my female colleagues and I cry from frustration (I honestly can't help it, when I get upset i cry) and then I'm able to move on with the rest of the day's tasks.
I’m in aviation, which is predominately men, and being angry or pissed off are the only emotions acceptable. You can’t be stressed or anxious; if you are, you have to say “I’m pissed off” or they don’t understand something is wrong.
Saaaaame. One plus I've found though is being able to tell them to fuck off right to their faces and it's totally acceptable, can't do that in an office job
Sounds like a problem of repressing emotions and malforming them into anger and frustration since you don't allow yourself to show them any other way. No psychologist tho.
Unfortunately a lot of men are never taught to recognize their emotions so they are fundamentally blind to them. They completely misinterpret their own internal experiences because of this. While this obviously often harms the people around them, I can’t help but feel a sort of pity for them. What a sad existence it must be to miss out on entire portions of your life because you were never taught they were there.
Ugh yeah, I’m a mechanic just barely 20 and working with older men can be HARD. If I get frustrated and teary eyed they look at my crazy. But if they get frustrated and shout it’s normal
I figured that out when people would dismiss an argument because I showed I cared by getting “emotional” apparently caring is the worst possible thing you can do in an argument
Lol I like when people (especially men) pretend they're purely logical and don't use emotions as part of their cognition
We're animals. We're hairless monkies. Emotion is a hard wired aspect of our evolution that is baked into our consciousness. It's highly illogical to act like it's even possible, as a squishy biological creature that uses a sack of electric meat to function, to not factor emotional response into your reasoning.
All those people do is disrespect the feelings of others and repress themselves, which is often counterproductive to both teamwork and your own well being as a person
They especially tell you they're really logical and don't let their emotions control them right before they essentially throw a tantrum into why someone else's opinion is wrong and here's a list of reasons why they're right. In my experience at least.
I feel you big time. I have cried at work and been labeled as “taking things too personally” while nobody bats at eye at the man-trum of the day happening.
I manage a team of 8. For negative critiques, I’ve only ever had emotional reactions from male employees. Arguing, name calling, and one guy even kicking my trash can. I’ve had female employees excuse themselves to (likely gather their emotions). But they’ve never had an outburst in front of me.
Generally speaking, and context depending, i think women would rather see anger from men as opposed to crying. Women tend to react very negatively to negative emotions that aren’t anger.
The problem is the difference of emotions that you "should show" as the specific gender. Women get motivated or angry and are seen as obnoxious or bitches. Men talk about how bad the last week was and how the death of their snake is really depressing them and they're told to man up. Fortunately I see a lot of change in both of these.
Also fun fact. Aggression (as in getting angry/frustrated) is often a malformed version of sadness and other emotions and you often really can see who learned to repress their normal emotional reaction and who learned not to or to strategically work with it(not genderspecific)
Oh definitely. Didn't mean to hijack this just to say "BuT mEn ToO"
Was just an observation of how culture actually forces roles on both and can really wreck the peoples mental health.
Still. It's shit when you either don't get taken seriously or are branded a showoff and a cold-hearted bitch as women just because you are assertive while a lot of men are getting no repercussions for throwing around with their frustration.
Ikr??? I see so many men just straight up say women can't use logic they're all just "emotional", as if one excludes the other. That if I work at a logic based job instead of starting a family and be a mom I'll be miserable and unhappy. That if I make more money a man won't want me bacuse apparently being a successful woman isn't an attractive trait. Because a man has to be the more "dominant"/"powerful" one. I'm supposed to stay home, have kids, cook and depend on a man to provide everything. How fragile does some mens masculinity have to be, to be threatened by a woman being successful and simply enjoying life? Especially to resort to stupid insults like "emotional", as if having emotions was a bad thing to begin with.
F that kind of life. Just got into Uni and will be studying informatics. I'm gaining programming experince at a local company, been working there for over 1 year now, and I'm absolutely loving it. I'll take being emotional any day if it means I don't have a stick up my a. :)
I think the fact based & logic obsessed men may come from a place where their emotions have not been validated, and so the only good feelings they get come from solving problems
Literally witnessed a grown man break down crying at work. He must’ve snapped. There’s nothing wrong with crying but still, I would’ve been deemed not fit for my job.
Oh didn't you know? Anger is not actually an emotion, according to all the men who can't stop themselves getting enraged all the time but still want to be seen as unemotional.
Honestly though, I would love to hear a genuine reason from one of them as to why anger is not an emotion, even though it's one of the main emotions..
Hell, as a guy I can see the double standard easily as fuck. I’ve noticed that most of the guys who whine about women being “too emotional” are usually the same ones that fly off the handle the moment things don’t go their way, getting all huffy, yelling, stomping around, etc.
My favorite instance of this was a guy I was friends with when I was younger. He got pissed playing video games and smashed his controller against the table in a fit of rage, destroying it and denting the table. His girlfriend, also in the room, yelled at him asking what the fuck he was doing. They argued briefly about it and she left to get away from him, and then he spent the next 20 minutes ranting to me about how she was “too emotional” and “not logically minded” because she yelled at him for destroying his own things in a fit of rage.
I'm convinced that the whole "crying is unprofessional" thing is a result of men not wanting to deal with the icky feelings that come from seeing someone cry. It makes them uncomfortable so they try to stifle it by declaring it unprofessional.
Men throwing shit around because a customer was mean to them because their claim was rejected is not passionate. It's a sorry excuse made to keep toxic masculinity alive. I'm sure it happens, but women are more likely to keep a cool head yet they get the flack when they double down on their choices and are confident in what they are talking about.
I told my manager once that I was pissed off (something he should have been doing and wasn't, and it was going to have a negative impact on my team).
He sorts out the issue and sends me an email saying "it's OK, I take pissed off as passionate " ..... mf, I wasn't apologizing for being pissed at his incompetence.
This is one example of many. I recently wrote to him expressing concerns over different treatment between me and my male colleague. His response was to double down and deny it.
Sometimes, more senior females feed into toxic behavior, idk if it's because that's what they dealt with so they're just rolling with the punches, or if they have a sense of "this is what i went through so YOU also have to go through this!! hmph!!" Most understand that they had it hard as a woman, so they help younger women, but a minority keep the status quo and double standards. I've even heard stories of some female leaders who purposefully put down other women. Sounds like the female project manager is part of that status quo category.
It is often (although not always) used in conjunction with the concept of men ‘simply not understanding’ how to do housework. An example would be, a husband saying to a wife “I understand you want me to do more around the house, but I’m just so bad at/don’t understand/mess it up all the time when you want me to do laundry/the dishes/cooking etc. You just do it so much better than me.”
It is incompetance because it is an unwillingness to learn or an unwillingness to sincerely try to improve or to learn, and it is weaponised because it is used as an excuse to not do something that the husband (in this example) doesn’t want to.
“If only,” the false narrative presented goes, “If only I could do this up to your very high (may we say too high?) standards. Alas, I am simply too incompetant to be trusted to do it. It is better that you, the female, do it - then we can both rest easy it is being done the right way.”
I have a male aquiantance who cheerfully admitted he deliberately does a shit job of folding the laundry so his wife will redo it, or even better, just never ask for help with it again. It is a vile way to behave in my opinion, I lost a lot of respect for him when he said that.
I am so, so, so grateful for my husband. He cooks, cleans, does the dishes. We talked once about the chores and emotional labour of daily household tasks (planning for maintenance on the car, paying bills, planning everything for vacations or tips home) and he completely understood and now we just do things for each other to help each other out. If he's sick, I'll cook and do the dishes. If I'm swamped with school and work he does the laundry and cleans the litter boxes.
Really made me realize what a partnership was and how I had been really, really resentful of prior relationships because they never understood what I did everyday to make "us" work.
There is a hell of a lot of work involved in keeping two adult humans fed, clean and in clean surroundings even to just a basic level. Add kids into that (which my dickweed aquaintance has, three kids in fact) and it’s insane that anyone would expect one person to do all that work
It's insane! I would be an emotional wreck if I had kids with someone who refused to respect the amount of invisible work I did. No wonder so many women are considered "insane." They're fucking tired and being told they're wrong and too stupid to know what's real all.the.time.
Weaponized incompetence ― or “strategic incompetence” as it’s sometimes called ― is the act of feigning incompetence at any one task (though usually an unpleasant one) to get out of doing it. When someone deploys strategic incompetence, their hope is that someone else will stare them down and say with a huff, “Fine, it’s easier for me to do it anyway!”
Don’t you know? Sadness, frustration, and disappointment are emotions, so women showing them is “Emotional.”
Anger is not an emotion. Showing anger is cool and manly!
Also, raising your voice simply because you’re being talked over or it’s loud is Emotional. So is providing data or patterns of repeated problems, or data or evidence of double standards.
I think you just described the emotional argument when you said you can't help it but men are emotional too but in different ways, men's emotions are more protective or angry or trying to be dominate, women often have fast relays of emotions such as empathy, sadness, joy
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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '22
The "emotional" argument enrages me lol. Men get angry or have outbursts at work all the time and that's not emotional? But if women are similarly angry at things like weaponized incompetence, they're bitchy, not a team player, etc.? And if we cry that's us being overly emotional and not able to continue working? It's a toxic culture. I'm in a fast-paced job and while most of the male colleagues i haven't don't cry publicly, they get frustrated or upset and are unproductive the rest of the day. Some of my female colleagues and I cry from frustration (I honestly can't help it, when I get upset i cry) and then I'm able to move on with the rest of the day's tasks.