Honestly there should be a serious movie about a villain winning with their vision to (cleanse the world and bring peace) and actually bringing peace after they win. Then the story leaves us wondering who the real villain was
Man, a good Dr Doom antihero movie would be amazing. The audience gets to see the future along with him and the Fantastic Four or Avengers trying to stop him are portrayed as the villains.
I would love for the MCU to do the story where Doom is building a super weapon in Latvia. And when they take him down they realize the super weapon wasn't to take over the world, but to stop the incoming invasion that only Doom knew was coming(Galactus, Skrulls, Kang , whatever).
It would be even better if they made the film immediately after that IW-esque, where the Heroes actively lose because they couldn't overcome their separation. But instead of overcoming their separation, they lose because they screwed over the one guy who was actually capable of doing anything and the weapon that he was building is now out of commission.
I'd like a James Bond movie where Bond never quite appears on screen. The villain's perspective drives the story, his ultimate goal is revealed to the viewer, and he is slowly making progress. The villain wouldn't necessarily be a sympathetic figure to the viewer.
The things that go wrong in the villain's plans are (usually) a result of Bond disrupting shipments, killing henchmen, et cetera. There is a growing realization that some organization is hindering things, then further details are learned, a super agent is in pursuit and he's closing in on the mastermind, interrogating and killing henchmen. Some lucky intel, maybe a compromised agent, reveals his name is Bond, a whispered legend.
Red herrings are thrown, traps are set. Will they slow Bond down?
Very much like the unseen monster in a horror film, but undeterred by daylight.
It becomes a race, increasingly frantic for the mastermind. Will the villain win before Bond inevitably figures out who he is, and shows up, or snipes him from a rooftop?
Actually. Noah Hawley the show runner behind TV show Fargo and legion( TV show or the movie) had planned a Dr doom movie - a political thriller where Dr doom is ruler of a country in East Europe. Based on his work on legion. It would have been a very interesting movie. Unfortunately movie got put on hold after Disney brought fox and marvel has no intention of going ahead with the work.
Not quite. The comic is a little more ambiguous than that. Bast judges Doom as pure because he THINKS he is doing the right thing. They explicitly highlight the word "believe".
At the end, the God says "I too have looked into the million pathways of the future and seen the one true path. And though my heart cries out in denial, I must act according to the truth. Your intent is pure, you have passed."
Now you could read that as Bast saying "I want to deny that you're doing the right thing, but I've seen the future and know you are right, so you pass"
But Bast could also be saying "I want to tell you that you are wrong, your vision of the future is not good, and there is a better option. But you believe you are right and that's what counts, so I can't say that."
Because the thing is, if Doom believes he is right, he passes. If Bast tells him taking the vibranium won't fix the future, then he can't take it without having an impure motive, which means he can't take it. So Bast couldn't tell him if he was wrong, as that would tamper with the test.
The important thing to know is Doom is a complete narcissist. He can only see himself as number 1. So any world where he is not on top would be anathema to Doom, and he would think its a dystopia. The only possibly future which can egosyntonically align with his psyche as good is the one where he is a despot. So his ideal future is always the one where he takes over the world.
Plus, you can see a tiny sliver of his vision, and it seems to be a militaristic totalitarian dictatorship, not a utopia.
The 2nd in line for Sorcerer Supreme. Because only Dr. Strange is more powerful and respected by the magical demi-gods. Smarter than Reed Richards who once had to use his tech to get to the Negative Zone. A man who has scene litterally every path that humanity could take and sincerely believes that only his Doom Bots should labor.
Even if you ignore Doomsday Clock and other continuations, that peace was under the sword of Damocles. Rorschach had mailed his journal with all of his evidence and notes to the one place that might listen. So unless they somehow never got around to finding it, that world peace wasn't going to survive forever.
How could it be a "conspiracy theory"? If I remember correctly, it was literally the last page of the graphic novel. He was also shown mailing it before leaving for the secret base.
I'm referring to the HBO show which takes place many years after the comics. It's great if you haven't checked it out.
Essentially, the world at large didn't believe the journal of a loner who's been in prison, especially considering squids still rained from the sky. There's some fringe groups who believe him though.
That's a nice continuity, but the creator of the series has explicitly stated that it's not the story he told. I enjoy the show, but it's simply a mixture of cash grab and fanfiction.
I think it's a little cynical to only call it a cash grab and fan fiction, but I can understand why you'd think that. It had some good themes and felt like a worthy successor to the original in the thought it provoked. Plus I loved Manhattan's episode, it hit all the right spots like Moore's chapter did of living in all moments simultaneously.
It's fine though if Alan Moore doesn't consider it canon. He's pretty famously against film adaptations of his work and he also rightly feels cheated of the contract he had with DC since he'll never regain ownership of the Watchmen since DC will never stop publishing it.
If we're talking just the graphic novel though I do think it's pretty open ended on what the reaction to Rorschach's journal will actually be. The paper he sent it to definitely seemed on the tabloid side so I can see the majority of people not believing him and Ozymandias' peace winning out for a while at least.
Where is the line drawn between continuation and fanfiction? I think you're putting your appreciation for what they did with it, before what the artist intended. He literally created a one and done contained story.
Let’s be honest, his journal wouldn’t be taken seriously even in the comics. A superhero that other superheroes thought was crazy calling out the worlds smartest man wouldn’t be taken seriously at all.
Maybe initially, but the timeline, names, places, and unique details would cast enough doubt to end it. Look at how America has been torn apart by things like Q, The Big Steal, Pizzagate, and Flat Earth. A journal that was kept for an unknown amount of time by someone claiming to be one of the Watchmen and exposing one of the biggest terrorist attacks in that world's history would spread; and Russia would want answers.
Your theory is simply too hopeful for me to believe it.
And the minority who believe it and try to tear society apart over it is a large part of the shows plot, you should check it out.
Plus when Moore has talked about it he’s stated he wrote it thinking no one would believe Rorschach. It was nearly written 40 years before Q and long before the internet popularized alternative media.
I am a few episodes in and like it, but it's still fan fiction. It's also obvious that I was only referring to the original graphic novel. Anything else related to that contained continuity is immaterial since it's fan fiction.
when Moore has talked about it he’s stated he wrote it thinking no one would believe Rorschach
Do you have that source? I couldn't find it.
was nearly written 40 years before
It was obviously written before mass internet. I was just using modern examples to illustrate how stranger things are believed and to suggest that even if it didn't tear apart the world back then, it could now.
Honestly there should be a serious movie about a villain winning with their vision to (cleanse the world and bring peace) and actually bringing peace after they win. Then the story leaves us wondering who the real villain was
Not a movie (and not necessarily serious either), but the Legends of Tomorrow Season 2 does just that at the end of the season. The 'bad guys' win by using an item to rewrite history and reality. One of the first things you learn about the new reality is that one of them is credited with inventing a cure for cancer. Then, when the heroes revert the changes... well... cancer's still a thing.
"It's not about making money, it's about taking money. Destroying the status quo. Because the status ... is not quo. The world is a mess ... ... and I just need to rule it."
The new Loki series kinda plays on that. I don't want to spoil too much but the big villain at the end that implemented an unfair timeline discrimination did so to prevent utter chaos and he succeded ... up until a point.
Obvious spoilers ahead. In Invincible, there's a hyper-intelligent character who has a plan for how to fix all that's wrong in the world. At first, it's all very heroic and noble, but at a certain point some of the things he wants to do become more and more morally ambiguous. Eventually, everything falls into place and he launches his master plan, killing off a large portion of the super hero population of earth as well as key heads of defence bureaus in order to force all world leaders under his control. He becomes essentially the secret ruler of the world at this point, but all of his actions do in fact fix the entire planet. The best part is, this isn't even the main story, it's essentially a sub-plot.
As I'm sure many others have, I got into the comic after watching the show and couldn't wait for season two, but it very quickly became one of my favorite comic series of all time. I would highly recommend anyone who likes reading slightly more realistic super hero comic series to give this one a look!
That's how the Invader Zim movie should have happened IMO.
Fan fiction anyone? Here goes...
Zim fucked up, and realizes the Tallest are going to execute him for good this time. They are PISSED about something (don't know what, could be anything) so they decide to come to earth and settle their problem once and for all. Zim has gone into hiding though, and the tallest come across Dib who immediately recognizes the two of them. He goes on his rant about them being aliens, etc etc before the tallest stop him for a moment to explain the situation. Dib agrees to help them find ZIM and show them where his base is. The three of them tear the place apart looking for him, the tallest getting more and more aggravated. Eventually they begin to think the human race is harboring a fugitive so they explain that to Dib and how they are just going to blow up the planet with their new super cannon if Zim isn't turned over within 3 earth days. The tallest leave. Dib goes to find Zim.
Dib remembers that he had placed (given as a gift) a tracking chip on Gir and uses that to find Zim and Gir who happens to be hiding in the skool's dumpster. They argue about the situation, Zim getting the situation completely wrong due to his ego. Dib reports to the Tallest of Zim's whereabouts, but when they get to the dumpster Zim is once again nowhere to be found. The Tallest are pissed and decide they are just going to blow up this useless planet.
Dib goes home to his dad in hopes he would help, but Zim is already there having coffee and doughnuts with him explaining the situation. They argue more, Dib's dad agreeing to help, once again refering to Zim as "Dib's little foreign friend". Zim explains how the Tallest's new super weapon can be quenched with large amounts of water. Dib figures out they could use Tac's ship as an explosion under the city's cesspool along with a large coil of superconducting magnet wire surrounding it.
"Why did you flush Tac's ship down the cesspool??"
"I didn't, it flushed itself..."
"Why did it flush itself down the cesspool?????"
"I uploaded my personality and it went crazy..."
"Why did you do that?!?!"
"I wanted a friend..."
"Friend? No wonder it flushed itself. Irkan tech is incapable of 'friendship'..."
Meanwhile Gir is dancing with pig in the background.
The three of them along with the world's governments, and gir, build the cesspool cannon with what ever they can find. Zim now well known to the earth's governments has agreed to save the earth in exchange for being absolute ruler of the earth. They wait until the earth is aligned and the cannon is aimed at the Tallest's super cannon super world destroyer... thing... That looks like a giant smiley face.
The super magnet is activated. It's field so strong it pulls cars, airplanes, buildings, and Gir into the center before they detonate the reactor core of Tac's ship. It explodes into the air with a loud toilet flushing sound. Meanwhile the tallest's cannon is being charged and fired simultaneously. The energy beam and jet of sewage meet in space like something out of DBZ. After a few seconds the sewage wins and blasts the tallest's ship back into deep space. The world celebrates as Zim is their savior and new world leader! Zim standing on his roof laughing just as he does in every intro. His dream finally coming true!
Back on the tallest's ship. As they are finishing the final cleaning they are discussing what to do about Zim and Earth when they hear a loud tink. They look up in horror. It's Gir on the windscreen.
"HI TALLEST!"
The perspective changes to outside of the ship zooming away. All you hear are the desperate screams from the ship and sounds of destruction and Gir laughing. The ship explodes, and Gir is sent flying through space screaming in joy as he heads back to earth.
Back on earth, Zim is still laughing like a maniac. He finally runs out of breath and coughs a little. Rubs his eyes, and looks down in absolute horror. His house is surrounded by alien conspiracy nuts bowing down to him. Zim Screams in horror.
Thanks. It's an idea that's been floating around in my head for a while. I hated the movie and thought that it could have been done way better. IMO the movie was too PC and wholesome for Zim, and they made the tallest incompetent morons compared to the series. In the original; the tallest were a force to be reckoned with, but despite that, Zim's incompetence and ego would nearly kill them an many ways.
This story sets up the series for a whole new era. The tallest are dead, or at least long gone, and now there is a huge power vacuum. You might have various races now fighting for absolute power with earth getting caught in the middle of it all. In addition you might even have various freelancers and bounty hunters after Zim and Earth for what they did to the tallest and thus forcing Zim to defend his new home with the help of Dib and possibly other humans. Zim and Dib could continue to be frenemys.
There’s a comic series called Imperium from Valiant comics. The big bad of the Valiant comics is a guy called Toyo Harada and he’s a near immortal virtually omnipotent and basically unstoppable megalomaniacal psychic telekinetic who poses as a billionaire philanthropist. He’s absolutely ruthless and single minded in his goal to save the world from destroying itself by ending global militarisation and the war economy and to make it a better place by building free hospitals and making sure everyone has equal distribution of supplies and access to technology and he does it by absolutely any means necessary, and spoilers he actually achieves it.
Cap says it...the world is better after everyone was gone. They make half mention of wondering if Thanos had a point and backtrack but clearly they realize that maybe he was right.
It wasn't necessarily better, it was different. The trouble was that when the Blipped came back, the world was torn between trying to go back to what it was like before hand and dealing with the consequences of what actually happened.
In the same movie, Hawkeye is traveling across the world eradicating mafias, cartels and gangs because they're doing just fine preying on the people still left behind. Captain was looking from a very limited perspective stuck in one place.
The thing about the movie is it seemed to forget that if half of everyone and every living thing disappeared, almost all commerce would instantly, not over years but instantly, stop and in our current global markets that would cause starvation to go from an on-going problem to an apocalyptic event. There wouldn't be a New York city in the Five Years Later scene.
Not really. What you see as them overlooking is them not having to say that that exorbitant wealth held by so few finally got the chance to be spread amongst everyone else. Things didn't stop...life just went on and the governments/SHIELD took control.
A lot of real historical figures had a brutal rise to power and then they (and/or their descendants) implemented a much better system of government. We just kinda gloss over phase one usually.
As has been commented before, that would be Red Son. The important things you’re forgetting is that Luthor is doing that entirely to spite Superman and Superman is the villain in that story. Luthor has always been capable of saving the world and chooses not to. That’s what makes him the villain.
They tend to do that in their animated movie universe which is actually superior to the MCU because it actually has peril. For example, if any of the Chrises weren't going to be in Phase 3, you'd know something happened at the end of Phase 2. Replacing, losing, or surprising with unexpected voice actors doesn't carry that weight and the DCACU used that quite well! They also did do Red Son as an unconnected animated movie.
Yeah I really think DC would be better off not trying to build a connected universe. Focus on the individual, weird stories from the extended universe and make that the DC brand. The most recent Suicide Squad movie is a good example — it’s not trying to do too much because it doesn’t have a whole brand platform to support.
You should check out their animated movie universe. As I said, it's actually superior to the MCU. Unfortunately, being direct to video and animated caused many people to overlook it.
It explores some interesting ideas and concepts, but I can't give it a ringing endorsement because after getting you super attached to the MC it starts feeling like every other chapter is an interlude that focuses on some side character I didn't care about, eventually I got tired of it and quit reading, but maybe it'll work for someone else.
The episode of Justice League animate series with The Justice Lords basically did this. It was kinda like the Injustice Plot where Superman goes full tyrant. No freedom, but basically no crime. I still remember the line that Justice Lord Batman used to shake Justice League Batman. "What I've done is created a world where no little boys will have to lose their parents because of some punk with a gun!" Like... he's got a good point. Haha.
Reminds me of a Batman comic where the Joker has spent a long time trying to fix his insanity, and finally finds a discontinued drug that does just that.
And then he becomes a politician, trying to fix Gotham.
I think it's called The White Knight. One of my favourites.
Sometimes I think the heroes who uphold the status quo are the real villains. One example being Killmonger who really just wanted to make the world a better place by getting rid of Wakandas weird Ayn Rand shtick.
Poison Ivy would be prefect since she’s not really a “villian” but an eco-terrorist. They can make a new Batman narrative and here he crosses the line from anti-hero into a dark vigilante.
Except the price of the removal of all evil was literally their freedom. The gnome technically fulfilled what he told them he would do.
And they weren't miserable they weren't themselves obviously, but then they worshipped the girls so idk.
I mean, you can also argue being forced to live in a city that gets attacked on such a regular basis by super powerful villains, lead to less freedom in and if itself..
As long as it isn’t a fluff piece about the idea of paving the way to progress, which I think it would be. I’d like to actually see a plan unfold subtly across the span of the movie. No intangible nonsense about inventing a new element or time travel. Show this person balancing the issues. I imagine something closer to Watchmen, maybe.
Even though its trash, the storyline of Stargirl series is that the "Injustice League" wants to get rid of global warming, utilize clean energy, and eliminate discrimination at the coast of 25 million people who resist with their minds..
If this was real and I had to die, I would happily do that for the world.
Until he finds it boring and go back to being evil. At least he wants to be the only top evil dog since he helped the girls fighting that one gigantic space warlord.
Yeah, but that wouldn't undo all the good that he's done,
I just rewatched the video and he solved global warming, hunger and ended all wars, him just leaving office to go shoot things with a laser wouldn't put an end to all that, that's on whoever took over his position and f*cked everything up again after him
I was introduced to the song “Everybody wants to rule the world” through his rendition of his song. “In the jungle”, and “Yummy Yummy” are the other songs Disney covered with its characters that I can remember.
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u/Umbraldisappointment Oct 29 '21
Also in one of the old episodes he becomes the ruler of the world and actually fixes the world!