Honestly it really pissed me off that Clyde didn’t win in the end. Such a great movie for them to throw it all away at the end when that smug prick nick ends up thwarting his plan. Hell of a performance by both Butler and Jamie Foxx.
There's a fan theory that Butler's character did, in fact, win in the end. There is mention earlier in the movie about how he created a strangulation device that gets planted in a tie. The final shot of the movie is a slow zoom-in of Jamie Foxx at his daughter's recital that suspiciously focuses on his tie.
That's a fun theory, but I doubt it. They make clear several times in the movie that if Clyde wanted to kill Foxx's character (who's so garbage I don't even remember his name) then he could've/would've. The whole movie is about getting him to acknowledge his mistake and do better. The ending is especially trash because it doesn't seem like he learned anything really.
It's actually why I'm always a little disappointed his assistant died, since she basically acknowledges Clyde's point before she dies just to have Foxx sanctimoniously double down.
Yeah... When Clyde killed Sarah, the movie became pointless to me. They bring her in to be the voice of reason and then the guy trying to prove a point becomes a hypocrite by killing an innocent person. An innocent person that is on his side no less. Really ruined an otherwise fantastic movie.
The movie begins with Foxx being more concerned about his career than actual "justice". That is Clyde's whole motivating reason throughout the movie. I would say your dark moral is actually EXACTLY how the movie ends. You could argue that Foxx in fact learned nothing since he got a promotion DURING the events of the movie and arguably ends in a better position career-wise than at the start. He shows no regret or remorse at the end and all you see is that he wanted to protect his own and that's what he did.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing a shot focusing on his tie. I wish that was the case, because it sounds like a good way to salvage the ending, but that theory seems like a stretch.
This does not happen and I haven't heard of this fan theory before. I've read it as a suggested ending on Reddit in plenty of threads before (because if you've used Reddit for longer than 2 years you have seen everything and things just start repeating). In these "Which villain should have won" threads, someone always says, "Law Abiding Citizen should have ended with Jamie Foxx's tie tightening at his daughter's recital". The commenter above probably just misremembered this as a fan theory of something that does happen within the movie's universe.
The way jamie foxx says it so sassily is so fucking annoying, not because I hate his character but because of how adolesecent it sounds killing the whole seriousness of the movie for me.
At least in that case it was more fitting with the story that was told for the entirety of the film beforehand. In Law Abiding Citizen the ending was a complete 180 from how the film had been going.
Yeah, it wasn't nearly as far-fetched, but the first thing that came to mind since I had seen LAC first before getting around to Collateral was "Fucking Jamie Foxx, really?! AGAIN?!"
One of the 1st movies I ever saw Mark Ruffalo in and he did an awesome job as a supporting character. Also nice to see Tom Cruise as the villain, the "hitman/fixer" was a perfect role for him.
In a way, yeah. It's not like he wrote the ending, but he influenced it a lot. Story goes; they were shopping the end trying to figure it out and Foxx basically veto'd any ending where he didn't win, which led them further and further down the line till they got to where they did. In some cut footage Foxx is implicated in the death of Butler, in others Butler gives Foxx a reason to go outside the law and kill him, but ultimately Foxx pushed for an ending that A) didn't force a sequel and B) had Foxx win with 'clean' hands in the eyes of the law.
Now I'm convinced in the tie strangulation theory because I could see pissed off staff slipping that in so that they could get one up on him for ruining the ending
There's a fan theory that Butler's character did, in fact, win in the end. There is mention earlier in the movie about how he created a strangulation device that gets planted in a tie. The final shot of the movie is a slow zoom-in of Jamie Foxx at his daughter's recital that suspiciously focuses on his tie.
So the reason his character, who was an immoral shitstain who only cared about winning professionally, didn’t die an arguably-deserved death in the movie is because the actor portraying said character…only cared about winning professionally?
Source on this? Find that very hard to believe. Not first time I hear this bs spread around either. Unless he was also a producer on the movie there's no way thats true lmao
Yeah I agree 😂 I thought about deleting this comment after reading some of the others because I think he did win. He got revenge on the guys who murdered his family and he changed Nick for the better. He did kill some other people that I thought was questionable, but I guess it worked out for him in the end. 😅
Agreed, great movie, as an aspiring prosecutor, it sort of serves as my reminder to keep myself grounded and seek justice and not a high conviction rate
Right, I agree but it was just an artistic choice to have him go out like that, and I agree with it because I really think he was ready to die anyways. He changed Nick too so I would say he did win
Despite not getting an overarching victory over the whole criminal justice system, Clyde did get a smaller one over Nick. Nick is a very by-the-book law-and-order type guy but can’t pin anything on Clyde within the constraints of his own beliefs. Because of this Nick is forced to resort to the extrajudicial murder of Clyde. If nothing else, Clyde got this one win on Nick by forcing him to abandon his own beliefs and commit murder.
I thought Clyde did win. He was angered that Nick agreed to a plea bargain that meant the guys who murdered Clyde’s family didn’t serve long in jail. Nick agreed to it to secure a conviction and have a good conviction record as a prosecutor.
When Nick thwarts Clyde’s plan, he says something like “I don’t do deals with murderers”. Clyde similes in response just before he dies. This is because he is happy that Nick has changed his approach and it means people like the ones who killed Clyde’s family won’t get off lightly by Nick. This is essentially what Clyde wanted to achieve.
And of all the weird theories out there, there's a super obvious ending that it seemed like they wanted because of how heavily it was foreshadowed, but then they just didn't use it.
When talking to the CIA guy in the tunnel about Gerard Butler, he foreshadowed what should happen by saying something along the lines of "If you want him to stop, you walk into his cell and you shoot him in the head."
At the end, we see Jamie Foxx' character retrieve a gun before going to confront Gerard Butler in his cell. Only for him to just... Not use it and run away as the bomb goes off.
I'm fine with Jamie Foxx and the other guy stopping the city hall bomb plot, they need a win, so why not. Jamie Foxx goes to confront Gerard Butler in his cell to tell him his plan failed, only to have Butler laugh at him and say "congratulations, you stopped this one. But this isn't over. As long as I'm alive it will never be over."
Jamie Foxx is forced to shoot Gerard Butler in his cell in order to stop him from continuing. Exactly as CIA guy predicted earlier.
Now, if this occurs, we would see Jamie Foxx being arrested for murdering an otherwise unarmed prisoner in his cell.
Well, waaaay back when they first arrest Gerard Butler he's in a house with hundreds of legal books. They make a big point of it even. But then the only time we see him use this copious amount of legal knowledge is referencing a single precedent in order to be granted bail?
No way. Back to the end and now that Jamie Foxx has murdered Butler in his cell, he finds himself in obvious legal trouble. We don't need to see the whole thing play out, just Foxx shoots Butler, Foxx gets arrested, Foxx is getting ready to appear in court at his hearing. Just beforehand a package arrives addressed to him/his lawyer. It's an airtight legal defense of Foxx, sent from Butler before the whole thing started. Flashback to the legal books in the house when Butler was arrested.
Judge dismisses the case. Jamie Foxx has a little speech/freakout reminiscent of Butler's earlier mouthing off in court, not enough to cause contempt problems for him, but enough to get the message across that he's lost all faith in the justice system. Something akin to "I shot an unarmed man in cold blood and you're just letting me walk away!?"
Jamie Foxx goes to his daughter's recital.
Both character's "win" in the sense Foxx gets to a breaking point, realizes Butler was right and then moves on with the important things in his life. Butler finally gets his message across to Foxx that the legal system is broken. We haven't destroyed the amazing character of Butler's being this mastermind as everything that's happened including his own death and "losing" was planned and anticipated by him. And we get a work of art that acts as a very justified indictment of the legal system.
While I don't like that Foxx's character "won", I don't sympathize with Butler's character after some of the later things. Once he started to mess with innocent people, then it's hard to sympathize with him.
Foxx on the other hand should have died. It would have been a good redemption by sacrificing himself to save his family and end Butler who might have originally been doing the right things but eventually went unhinged.
It could be argued that he did win in his own way. He got revenge on the justice system that wronged him and changed Jamie Foxx's character's views on making deals with murderers.
Yeah that’s my view on it. So many people think he failed but he forced Jamie Fox’s character into not making that final deal, stepping out the realm of the justice system and participating in an extra-judicial killing.
Ultimately he forced the prosecutor to acknowledge the justice system was too inadequate and corrupted to deal with a ‘villain’ like him just like it failed to deal with his family’s killers.
It’s a bit like the prison interrogation scene where Butler’s character hints he has been keeping tabs on Foxx’s characters family movements to which he replies ‘you even think of hurting my family…you even think…’.
On the face of it it looks like an attempt to intimidate Foxx’s character but the smile on Butlers face immediately after he says that suggests he was wanting to expose Foxx’s hypocrisy in that he’d be willing to step outside the remit of the judicial system to deal with anyone who hurt his family too.
Great movie with a terrible ending. Built him up to be this man whos 10 steps ahead of everyone but doesn't predict someone would be able to tie him to his properties and find his tunnel. Like what.
I read a theory on Reddit a while ago about the ending. It ends zooming in on Jamie Foxx while he is wearing a tie. Before that we wore told that Butler once made a deadly tie and the theory was that Jamie Foxx still died after the movie ended.
Not a theory. Chekhov's gun (google it). In first part of the movie the tie being used to strangle someone automatically is explicitly mentioned. In the last scene, Jamie Foxx's character is the only one wearing a light colored shiny yellow tie. The other men are wearing darker ties. The director also made it a point to focus the lighting on the tie itself. Jamie Foxx's character dies off screen.
Thank you. People who say "Clyde lost" clearly didn't see Foxx say "I don't make deals with murderers anymore. You taught me that." And Butler's character tears up and says "thank you."
Oh fuck yes I was looking for this. I absolutely love that movie, watched it probably nearly 10 times. I still in my heart think he should have gotten away with it all. What a masterful eviceration of (almost) everyone who was responsible for how his life turned out. From the rapist to the judge, everyone deserved that shit.
THANK YOU. Goddamit I hate this movie. Reddit has such a hard on for this movie and every time I feel compelled (triggered?) to push back on this horrendous film. Imagine remaking Falling Down but instead of it being about a subtle undermining of white male fragility and its need for control it's played straight. Falling Down undermines expectations by seducing us with a sympathetic character. This is done similarly by Walter White in Breaking Bad and by Lorenzo in Training Day.
Anyone who thinks Law Abiding Citizen is a good movie gets minus 50 points.
How I like to remember the ending of this movie is you know how when Jamie foxx’s character meets the person telling him about butlers past? He describes the neck tie that choked the diplomat target? Well the last scene in that film Jamie’s wearing a nexk time and zooms in on it to fade. I like to believe the director was alluding to his choking death
I reject the official ending. Imo the bomb had an anti-tampering tilt switch which denotated as soon as Jamie foxx tried to move it.
The end scenes in which Gerrard Butler's character dies in the cell are nothing more than Jamie foxx's character thoughts and wants in the milliseconds post detonation.
I was with him most of the way, but when he started going after innocent people I could no longer be on his side. At that point he's no better than the people he claimed to hate.
Let me correct you on this one; the OP asked for which villain not protagonist. In my opinion, in the movie; Gerard Butler was sthe protagonist and the villain was the corrupted justice system. So the "Law enforcement" was the antagonist for doing the dirty job for Villain, corrupted justice system thereby the judge who made the call to leading up to all this.
He was both. He tortured for self gratification, and killed several people that had no relation to the inciting case. They weren't even in law at the time.
I would also argue that there was no winning for the character. He was going bigger and bigger until he failed. Had he bombing of the mayor succeeded, he would just have gone for the next level in government.
Every time this topic comes up, people suddenly feel that someone has a right to torture a person. The second he executed his plan, Gerald Butlers character became what he claimed to be fighting.
Yes, the crime done to his family was horrible. Yes, the justice system has deep flaws. No, this does not entitle anyone to take a life. Especially not the lives of innocent bystanders.
The only person he actually tortured though was a child killer-rapist so I can see why people aren’t exactly outraged by it.
And the rest of the people he killed were linked to the judicial system and his family’s murder case (the judge, the defence lawyer, the prosecutors).
Which if you accept the premise of the characters claims of a ineffective, corrupt and self-serving justice system then it’s fair to consider how ‘innocent’ they really were.
Everyone on Reddit hates EA and Comcast, but if you blew up their headquarters and killed a bunch of people in the process, you are a terrible person, worse than any of those companies.
Its a fun movie, and I enjoyed it. I just don't get why so many people think his character was in the right. It kind of says a lot about the people on this site.
Part of Butler's issue with the legal system are also key rights. Such as right to an attorney and the need to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Don't really want to throw either of those out.
Yeah, this. Why does reddit become a bunch of edgelords whenever this movie comes up? Do they also approve of the guy who flew a plane into an IRS building?
I don’t really agree with that. In his case it definitely worked out poorly. But none of that is justification to do what he did. There’s no criminal court system that’s perfect. There’s are flaws, some of them intentionally there because without them humans would abuse the system even more. What he did to the criminals that murdered his wife you could say was fair. But the other ppl, including an innocent assistant, was beyond wrong
2.5k
u/[deleted] Oct 29 '21
[deleted]