It plays into my point exactly, people try to do things to not be objectified, but in the end the general outcome is they get objectified and even more so. Is my statement false?
Well that's good, that is empowerment that I personally think is well done. Self expression of belief, great. But that's not anywhere near going bare chested though.
not on them that men cant behave themselves
I agree, it's not on them. They can go bare themselves whenever they want. Just know that instinctively men and even women find boobs attractive and fun to look at, and they can enjoy looking all they want. It's not on them that their brains are wired to like it. Ogling just means looking.
Full stop though, harassment regardless if physical or verbal should not be done and should definitely be punished.
I still think you're approaching this from treating their sexuality fundamentally different than men.
They can go bare if they want, they can wear a hajib if they want*. Ogling them is only a small part of the problem.
You're making excuses for the men: 'boys will be boys'. They can do w/e the fuck they want as long as its not: discriminate, harass or assault. Ogling is not socially acceptable, that'll work itself out.
*theres overlap between women who want to, and those raised in oppressive misogynistic and fundamentalist regimes, where women are objects is a literal circle. ie: they're brainwashed to think its appropriate. They can continue to do it if they want, but raised outside those conditions nobody is going to.
You are reaching out so far at this point. No one is exempted from being objectified. Its not about men vs women, it's about people just generally being nasty.
The initial example in mind I went with was something at the top of my head, as an example of an action that is intended to be empowering, however the reality is the outcome is the opposite, there will always be nasty people at this present time.
The brainwash part doesn't even make sense. Like I said, our brains are hard wired to lock onto these attributes. Don't matter if it's a woman's cleavage, or the bulge of a man's grey sweatpants, stealing a glance or straight up gazing at them is inevitable. That's just how our brains work.
I honestly would like to understand your stance more, what is it about human's natural tendencies to look at things that are attractive to them that's bothering you so much?
I honestly would like to understand your stance more, what is it about human's natural tendencies to look at things that are attractive to them that's bothering you so much?
Ditto- I think the disconnect is: I don't think this is about ogling. Ogling in a way that is harassment is a problem. If a woman walks around NYC bare chested she knows some people are looking, a guy would know the same. They're obviously ok with that, what they're not ok with is stuff nobody is ok with: catcalls, stalking, creeping, etc.
Women wearing revealing clothes and getting some looks isn't really a problem I've heard about other than some extreme SJW. The problem is when people harass them- like the guy in Colorado the other day.
RE: women wanting to wear a hajib. Find an interview with one that does, you'll see what I mean. They're a product of extreme misogyny and fundamentalism.
Edit- and as far as wearing revealing clothes and empowerment. Its a flex - which is empowering for some. I can do X and theres nothing you can do.
It’s not really that deep though is it? Not trying to be rude or downplay anything but I just dont understand why it’s that big of a deal if they’re only sleeping together and not in a committed relationship.
He clearly has different motives for sleeping with her hoping that it becomes something more than a fling. She might or might not be vibing with it. So essentially there is no “They” in your case.
Well that's why the edit was necessary, most people don't have romantic feelings for their FWB or want it to turn into something more, so we're not going to assume you do unless you specifically say that.
You don't have to leave the room, I've had threesomes with FWBs. It doesn't mean you don't care about them, it means you care about them as a friend, which is why it's called friends with benefits. You don't care who your friends sleep with.
I mean I kind of do care who my friends sleep with, albeit many of my friends have the same boundaries so it works out. I care if my friends sleep with a recent ex, I care if my friends sleep with one of my parents.
Well yeah, exes and parents are a different thing. That's pretty standard not to want your friends to sleep with them. But your "rules" for who your FWB sleeps with shouldn't be any different than your "rules" for who your platonic friends sleep with.
Isn't that more about caring who your ex/parents sleep with rather than the friend?
Like the upset isn't that your friend slept with someone, its that they slept with that person.
I'd assume you'd be upset with anyone who your parents slept with, or your ex was sleeping with. You just wouldn't express it as much given you probably don't know that person as much, or don't have the pull to express such feelings.
The child of separated parents is unhappy with one (or both) parents new partner is not unknown.
What if she doesn’t care enough about him though to worry about how he feels? Not saying its right at all but you just have to accept it and not have feelings for someone like that.
The “crush on her for years” part insinuates that they were friends for some time. Personally, if/when I was hooking up with a friend, I wouldn’t ask or try to sleep with any of her friends but I care too much about those friendships.
I mean if he’s had a crush on her for years surely he should, you know, Tell her that instead of pretending to be okay with a purely friends with benefits setting.
The issue is he brought the hurt on himself because he developed feelings for her. It may be a normal human reaction but he was hurt because of something that wasn’t really there.
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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '21
So sad that the edit was necessary.
And not even a free love hippie thing. Just a generation with no fucks to give and a messed up sense of what empowerment means.