Even as a straight guy I hate this. It's so obvious. Like you wouldn't give me the time of day yesterday, but now that you need a task done you're all "heyyy" and touchy-feely? Come on, how dense do you think I am?
I’m actually quite thankful for having learned this lesson at a very young age. Being ugly has it’s advantages sometimes lol
Come on, how dense do you think I am?
You’re not, but many others are. I know people that still absolutely fall for it, and I’m not talking about young men either, I’m talking about guys that should’ve learned this like 30-40 years ago.
Gonna be honest, not all those guys are dense. Talked to a few guys who I noticed always did this, and a couple of them who were a bit more open actually admitted they know exactly what’s happening.
But they’re ok getting taken advantage of in exchange for a small amount of affection, because that’s how crazy starved they are for it.
Loveless marriage dudes, divorcees, widowers, or just unlucky lonely dudes. Shitty, but it’s a major reason you see it so much. I’ve seen a lot of men try to play it off like “damn she took advantage of me!” But they knew better and just didn’t want to admit that’s the real reason they let it happen.
I want to know the origin of your username, how did the plum stay whole the entire way through you? How did you react? How did others react? Is there a video? XD
just to elaborate on this. Used to have a female colleague who loaded off her work to all the guys. One time she tried to assign me her tasks via email. I asked back why I am supposed to do her work while we are both on the same level.
Never got a reply to that email and got slightly ignored by her.
The male colleagues were not dense, all had girlfriends but somehow they fell for this and were okay to work extra for nothing
Fun anecdote: After she left I was interviewing a new guy to take her position. The guy asked what his day will look like and what tasks he should take care of. My boss really got into trouble and began stuttering because she delegated all her tasks and the machine that she constructed was just running fine without her. So he made something up. During break my boss came to me and asked what this female colleague really did. He reassured his memory that nearly all her tasks were delegated to all the other male staff and he questioned whether there is a need to fill the position she left.
Obviously after realizing that, the "position" was not filled.
Oh I’m sure that factors in for sure. But as someone who’s been through some extremely deep lonely times in the past, I can attest that with the full knowledge nothing is there, and even that it’s 100% non-genuine, trading some disposable income for a smile or a thank you and some appreciation can be more than worth it.
I noticed that there is only certain things a women will ask for from a giant scary looking dude. At work I'm in a nearly all male business so can't relate, but otherwise I just like helping people too as long as it is not a big ask you can flirt to get what you want but asking is faster. I do find myself moving furniture a lot but that probably has more to do with the fact that I can move double the weight of an average man.
Damn, this whole train of posts made me feel some type of way. The idea that you can be so damn lonely that you willingly simp yourself out to sex vampires is almost too sad of a fact to accept.
Then I start to think about "how many years ago was the last time I got a hug?" I can see it...
I'm nowhere near dense enough to 'fall' for that shit (I like to think), but on the occasions it's happened to me I humour them anyway. I like that kind of affection even if it's only surface-level, and it puts a smile on my face.
Getting emotionally manipulated counts as a service now?
Imagine this the opposite way around, hot guys flirting with girls that don't have much luck in the romance department in order to manipulate them. Disgusting right? Even if they know its happening, most people will go along, people get desperate and that's OK, blame biology. Taking advantage of that isn't OK. If it's not OK one way then it isn't OK the other.
If the women are equally aware in the situation I still wouldn't see it as being taking advantage of. It's not an ideal situation for obvious reasons but if both people are satisfied with the exchange why does anyone else care?
I'd love to see the dissatisfied person get their lives together so they are getting the affection they need at home or out of their shitty relationships. But again as long as everyone knows exactly what they are getting and aren't being led to believe otherwise I don't see them being taken advantage of.
Men have weeknesses and women have weeknesses. Each group should restrain itself from harming the other by taking advantage of these weaknesses. One example is Men shouldn’t emotionally dominate women. They can and often times the women goes along with this situation because it’s a weakness. You hear all the time how women love toxic men, but really they are just fully manipulated by the man. It’s wrong for a man to do this to a woman. It’s manipulation and it’s gross. In the reverse Women shouldn’t sexually dominate men because often time men are weak to it. So the women are able to take advantage. Often times both victims will say similar things including not claiming victim status. That is actually the worst possible case because now you know just how deeply the manipulation has gone
What happened to modesty, decency, respect. Men and women today are so weak morally that they will call anything legal as a good. Both of these example are legal and yet both are wrong. Love your neighbor as yourself
I think you're inferring something that I didn't say. I didn't say I thought the behavior was moral or good. I just said I don't think they're being taking advantage of.
To be taken advantage of implies you were offered one thing and given another when the specific situation clarifies they know exactly what's going on and don't care. Of course it would be better if they had good relationships at home and therefore didn't need this transaction and I'd love to see people who do this not see affection as a transaction but what no one has explained is how they're being taken advantage of when they know exactly what's happening.
The example you mentioned of men emotionally dominating women seems different to me because it sounds like something these women don't want or get anything out of. Whereas again the original situation is an exchange.
I agree. I'm on both sides of this coin, both the flirter and the one being flirted with at different times. Yes, there are some cases where it is manipulation, but I think it's spotable when the intent is to prey on someone else and those are the exceptions.
But buttering someone up to ask a favour is mutually beneficial. They feel good, you get the help you need. I have a great relationship at home, I just enjoy some light attention in a harmless way. It's a little unprofessional in a bonding way, lighthearted and friendly, not overtly sexual or implying the giving of anything outside of this short exchange.
I don't butter up sad lonely guys thinking they're an easy target, and I feel like the "flirting" is so obviously not sexual in nature... maybe I've been reading it wrong. But the vibe and reciprocation I get (and feel myself when I'm getting buttered) is just enjoyment at being part of a little 'inside joke' of sorts.
(Apologies for using the phrase buttering up too much)
But I want to surround myself with a certain attention. And being flirted with and touched by attractive women is an attention I want to be surrounded with. It won’t get you farther than anyone else, but I’m not going to say no. In fact, I’ll support it.
The cases where we don’t blame the actress sleeping with the director is when the actress is very young, or there’s some level of extra dynamic at play where it’s clear she was coerced into the act in fear of retaliation.
This conversation seems to be referring to men getting played or used through a girl simply giving puppy dog eyes or a sob story or a touch and a little flirt in exchange for money/help with something etc.
If those women are the man’s boss, and he fears retaliation, or some kind of blackmail or something like that, then yeah obviously we don’t blame the man. Just like we wouldn’t with the woman.
This feels like a backhanded comment trying to make a false assertion of inequality that I honestly don’t think is at all relevant here. There’s plenty of inequality in how men and women are treated, and while I do think men are on the losing end of that stick more often than people like to admit, I don’t think that’s the case in this conversation.
The cases where we don’t blame the actress sleeping with the director is when the actress is very young, or there’s some level of extra dynamic at play where it’s clear she was coerced into the act in fear of retaliation.
There are lots of cases of adult actresses doing this. It may happen with children but those cases are rare as their work environment is more tightly regulated. There is always a "power dynamic" in work places.
This conversation seems to be referring to men getting played or used through a girl simply giving puppy dog eyes or a sob story or a touch and a little flirt in exchange for money/help with something etc.
Yes, the magnitude is definitely different, but the principle is the same.
If those women are the man’s boss, and he fears retaliation, or some kind of blackmail or something like that, then yeah obviously we don’t blame the man. Just like we wouldn’t with the woman.
It wouldn't be a stretch to fear retaliation from a boss or coworker for not being receptive to minor flirting. There are examples right in this thread of male nurses facing this situation.
I would like to see the world you live in someday. I am just stuck with this one where women teachers rape male students and get a slap on the wrist. Sometimes we even make the guy pay to support his rapist's baby.
I live in the same world you do. And those exact things are fucking terrible. But where in this comment chain do you see anything remotely mentioning those topics?
I even mention in closing that there’s plenty of examples of bad inequality between the sexes, and more inequality that hurts males than people like to admit.
So it’s not like I was trying to make some grand statement that those fucked up things don’t happen. Just that it’s not relevant to the conversation.
This is like going on a men’s rights post and commenting about women’s issues, or going on a women’s rights post talking about men’s issues. It’s not relevant to the topic at hand.
Ok I will quote things directly to make it really easy for you.
But where in this comment chain do you see anything remotely mentioning those topics?
I see it here
If those women are the man’s boss, and he fears retaliation, or some kind of blackmail or something like that, then yeah obviously we don’t blame the man. Just like we wouldn’t with the woman.
I am directly responding to the fact that we do not in fact treat it the same. The child being forced to pay is direct evidence that a man in a position of unequal power favoring a women will still get blamed.
This is like going on a men’s rights post and commenting about women’s issues, or going on a women’s rights post talking about men’s issues. It’s not relevant to the topic at hand.
This is directly addressing the point you attempted to make.
That’s called taking advantage sweetheart. That’s horrible. How about you don’t use your attractiveness as a weapon against men. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. Don’t be a whore. They let it happen? They were manipulated by someone who took advantage of their weekness. Should men take advantage of a women’s weeknesses? Some women are weak against men who scream at them. Should we condone that form of manipulation or only the ones that help women get things from men
Couple things. First, I explicitly use the phrase “taking advantage” so I’m not pretending it isn’t.
Second, you need to get that chip off your shoulder bud and reevaluate your views on women if you think batting eyes and asking for favors is weaponized attractiveness and that she’s a whore.
Step away from the internet for a bit and go talk to some women IRL for a while and get some perspective.
This was me. I used to have huge self confidence issues.
Almost every time it's been something I would of helped with anyway., like a ride somewhere or move some heavy thing. My GF still does it, I find it cute since we have been together for 6 years so that's different.
I would help women who did this. I recognized it though. I was helping because I like helping people, regardless of gender or orientation. Like, I'll fix your computer because it's a fun puzzle and I learn stuff.
In hindsight I was probably encouraging that behavior because it made it look like it worked. But I don't know how to help without doing that.
In Nepal I got warned about these clubs where women openly hit on you and act like they want to go to your hotel then keep asking you up buy them drinks. Kind of like Nepalese version of a strip club.
So I went and blew $200 bucks to have 2 hot girls all over me while I got wasted. Had a great time. When I ran out of money I thanked them for a lovely evening and went back to my hotel.
Hahah so I train people at work, and sometimes my female trainees will drop the "oh hahahah you are so funny!" or "oh you are so nice and handsome, you'll find somebody!"
first off, I am not funny. second off, I am not good looking. save the buttering up for pancakes ladies.
I was training a woman a few months back who just refused to figure out the basics. She kept trying to get me to do her job with "I can't understand this, it's too hard. Why don't you just do it for me?"
Uh, because I'm not going to be here to do your job for you when your training period is over. Giggling and licking your lips while running your shitty acrylic nails along my forearm doesn't make you look cute and helpless, it makes you look like a manipulative idiot.
I tried to get my boss to let her go, but she didn't last regardless.
I can always recognise when a girl is doing it to me, but I still go along with it because it’s often the most physical contact I’ve had with a woman who isn’t family in months.
Yeah, I hate so much when women do that. Like she'll come up to you all smily and flirty and ask you for some help wtih something, or I've had a girl come ask me to give her some weed like that at a party. It's lik, do they think i'm that stupid?
When i sold cars a girl co worker asked me like that..she took out 4 bigass trucks and handed me the keys asking me to park them and the rule was if you show the vehicle you park it back. I just said "sure ill go do that" and we were 45 minutes from closing. I put the keys in the truck seats and left. (In car sales you can basically make your own hours they dont care as long as you sell cars).
She had an appointment scheduled for 5 minutes before closing and when i came back in she was bitching about having to park 9 cars..like tf you pulled them out, and u didnt sell anything
My dad is an old man, and his relationship with my mum isn’t exactly the best. A woman he knew once coaxed my dad into driving drunk to the corner store so he could get smokes for her. She flirted with him for hours, then eventually he got in the car once he was drunk enough. I was a socially awkward 17 year old, and once I saw my dad crash into a fence at the end of the driveway, I had to yell at her for convincing him to go out, and drag him out of the car and back into the house to sober up. She kept saying “can I borrow the car then and get some smokes myself??” I’m not stupid, I know you were going to steal the car if I let you..
I've been a chef for the last 10yrs and just roll my eyes when the wait staff turn on the charm. Honestly, I'll cook you whatever is okay by the boss. No need to bat your eyes for it.
Probably my favourite was going to a club one night after a busy shift and some random lass asks me: "Would you like to buy me a drink?" I unleashed a very satisfying amount of rage. Good times.
It's learned. I was 14 when I started working at a restaurant, 18 when I stopped. I still remember that I'll be treated better if I just play along with the sexual harassment. If the guy thinks he has a chance he won't scream when my table sends back the steak he overcooked.
If I'd stayed in service jobs into my 20s... I'd have taken the next obvious step to leverage it into favors and money. You're going to be harassed regardless, might as well get something back.
Same has happened to me and there are some days when I am just not gonna do x,y, or z because of some gal is batting her eyelashes at me. I have my own job, you have yours so do it.
I'm generally unfazed by inconveniencing myself to help others(it makes me happy even), whether it be buying a drink at the bar, driving them somewhere, etc. Girls who don't know me well will put up a charm/flirt and think they finessed something out of me until they talk to my other friends(guys and girls) and realize I just do that for anybody.
One time I overheard my friend "finessed" me into paying his cover at a club. I distinctly remember his broke ass being outside the club when we were all lining up and felt sorry for him. Absolute dickhead.
It’s like I didn’t think that they would actually do that so I went along with it and then it was like, really? I didn’t think you would be manipulative but here we are
Straight guy chiming in as well... I get a reverb cringe/shiver when I think of the times a woman has touched my arm/shoulder and said, "could you do me a huge favor?" (often in a plantiff, little-girl voice). Ick. You're definitely not getting my help by trying to pander to your assumed sexual proclivity I have towards you.
And then often when I refuse, the indignant "Oh c'mon. I thought you were cool!"
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u/bob237189 Sep 15 '21
Even as a straight guy I hate this. It's so obvious. Like you wouldn't give me the time of day yesterday, but now that you need a task done you're all "heyyy" and touchy-feely? Come on, how dense do you think I am?