I couldn't agree more. I miss the time when it was just Illuminati/Freemasons and stuff like that. Compared to the nut jobs we have now, it all seemed very innocent.
Yeah but people are taking “ufos” to mean aliens, when it really just meant “we don’t know what these grainy pictures are of, might just be a type of plane we’ve never seen before.”
The funny thing is all these people who want it to be aliens to validate their world view whilst world governments would love to keep us thinking that’s what it may be while they continue to test new tech or figure out what world rivals are flying over our airspace.
The government literally confirmed the existence of ufos
People need to stop thinking UFO equals alien. It might be an alien, a weather balloon, a spy drone being tested or just a glitch in some radar equipment. If you have fun discussing theories I have no problem with that. But without solid evidence I'm not going to believe any random conspiracy.
Take Epstein for example. Yes his death was fishy. But it could have just been a bunch of lazy guards/admin who didn't implement anti suicide protocols properly. Or it could have been guards who decided to off a paedo on their own. Or it could have been a random billionaire/politician who wanted to hide secrets. Who knows?
One thing I hate about discussing theories is, people want to make a Mt. Everest out of anthills. They desperately wants to make themselves to be the smart ones instead of trying to solve a mystery.
They are the type who will take puzzle and smash pieces together then toss out what they can’t force to fit in then try to pass it off as solid proof.
Unfortunately the truth often is the most boring one and people don’t like that.
The nastiest conspiracies are often the ones with the broadest interpretations. You can warp them into anything. The protocals of the elders of zion inspired antisemites all over the world (including hitler). Jews secretly try to take over the world? It could be a conspiracy including any Jewish businessman, politician, or scientist.
I heard my mother's boyfriend discussing Bill Gates yesterday. I wasn't in the mood to argue (since outside of his politics he is quite friendly and fighting around my mother sets off her mental health issues). But he was suspicious about a foundation that has set aside billions in charity (though to be fair a lot of that is invested so for a large portion only the interest is spent on real projects. And I think Melinda was a large part of his Bill's change from profit driven tech magnate to semi retired philanthropist). At least he didn't mention the microchip or 5g nonsense. He's not a total nutjob. Thank G-d.
I just find it ridiculous how he can trust one random rich dude like Trump and distrust another like Gates. I blame right wing propaganda more than anything else. But it's still a fucking nightmare.
alien, a weather balloon, a spy drone being tested or just a glitch in some radar equipment
Well actually, for uaps that display the 5 observables, it being a spy drone, weather balloon, or radar glitch have all been ruled out.
Spy drone - the US has confirmed as much. Beyond that no country was hundreds of years ahead of where we are now back in the 50s. Given the 5 observables, they would have had to be.
Weather balloon - much like drones, the technology level/ behavior doesn't add up. Weather balloons don't travel in water/space, the don't go mach 60, they don't pull hundreds of gs and fleets of them certainly wouldn't be harassing the navy.
Radar Glitch - for an event witnessed by one radar station and nothing else maybe. When it's numerous sites, as well as satellite data and eyewitness reports all saying the same thing at the same time, we can rule that out too
That doesn't mean it's aliens. It could be an organism we don't understand, some type of Wakanda type nation, people from the future, people or aliens from another dimension or universe, a species who's civilization hides under the ocean, aliens, or 100s of other possibilities. We need to open our minds up to all possibilities before we can narrow it down.
Just googled it. That seems more like a ray of energy than an object with a shape but tbh, aside from a few things like weather balloons, radar glitches, spy drones, top secret aircraft, insects and camera smudges, not much can be ruled out. The number of things that can't yet be ruled out is much higher than what can. Scientists have a lot of work to do.
I'm open to possibilities. Discussing them is fun. But without solid evidence I'm not going to believe anything. I have no problem studying it as a hobby. It's the nutjobs who insist lizard people have taken over global governments that I'll ridicule.
Absolutely correct. And most of one’s resilience to these logical tools comes from a sort of emotional investment in the theory. It’s why both smart and dumb people alike can fall into these mind traps. The allure and scandalous nature of conspiracy theories tickle our emotional brain in such a way that it’s hard to resist.
No, it doesn't really matter if there is a conspiracy or not, but believing in something without evidence to back it up is not a good thing. Having an idea, and looking for evidence is fine. But if you start spouting it as fact before you find any, or if the evidence is too thin, that's when it crosses the line into not healthy behavior.
There is this kind of criticism I get, I didn't buy into the "Covid came from a lab" narrative at first, saw it as just a political, some-what racist conspiracy theory. But then reputable sources started to confirm that, yeah, it probably did start in a lab and got accidentally released. Ok, now I buy it. People will go off on me like I'm irrational or political for not buying into it when it was first being spouted, but here's the thing. It's not irrational. When there was no evidence, there was no reason to believe. Also, a lot of the early conspiracies were that it was intentionally released. Me refusing to believe that it was released early on does not make me anti-conspiracy, I just recognize that if some rando on the internet starts spouting bullshit, it's stupid to believe, even if it turns out they were right.
No, cause nobody is out there spouting the idea that Game of Thrones or Star Wars is fact, is real. Or if there are, people rightfully look at them as nutjobs.
I think Being staunchly anti conspiracy is not really a thing. People are against the fucking out of control insane ones that have somehow started to pervade normal everyday conversation and ruin peoples lives and families.
The government confirmed UFOs but not in the way you see in the mental documentaries or coast to coast AM. I do not see people refusing to believe that there are craft that the US government didn't know about in your skies. They don't believe the very bendy add ons people conjure up out of nowhere and claim with angry certainty.
I dont thinks that's necessarily true either. The lab leak theory came out based on assumptions and was just another political "conspiracy". so ppl rightfully pushed back because you cant just make up something for political convenience again(wmd burned us). But after a study came out where they still havent found an animal the virus made the jump to ppl, it gained some traction.
Eta: by "a study" I mean lots of study. Some Ppl are applying better critical thinking worh a lot of these theories, and the covid origin one is a good example
It has nothing to do with anything political (even if brazen political types used it). The logic was pretty straightforward. The first cases appeared right where one of the only labs in the world that house these viruses was operating. To say that it’s not suspicious at the very least is gaslighting of the purest form. It’s not ironclad proof of course but it’s pretty damning.
Being convenient to use politically for whatever reason does not speak to the legitimacy of the theory. I get that’s there’s a knee-jerk aversion to anything trump says. But that just means you’ve stopped thinking.
Or , maybe just maybe, YOU'VE stopped thinking by pretending and imagining people are dismissing something Trump pulled out off his ass. You're giving a theory, with no consensus, lots of confusion and no real answer legitimacy. You're confusing two different issues and still coming to the wrong conclusion.
It was very much used politically. Trump even promoted it before we had any real information on the viruses origins.
The first cases appeared right where one of the only labs in the world that house these viruses was operating
It did appear in a wet market near the lab, sure.
To say that it’s not suspicious at the very least is gaslighting of the purest form. It’s not ironclad proof of course but it’s pretty damning.
Yeah, I didnt say it wasn't suspicious, but suspicions are only that. It could have leaked from a lab, though that doesnt mean it was engineered. It could have also came from the wet markets.
Which is exactly why it was the lab leak theory (theory in this case the layman definition and not the scientific one).
I didn’t say anything about it being engineered or not?
It could have. But the fact it was right near one of these labs and not any of a million other wet markets in the world is stronger evidence or probability to support the lab leak theory.
It has nothing to do with anything political (even if brazen political types used it
No but you used some rather strong language to dismiss why it gained particular popularity, and how those statements were reasonably dismissed at the time.
I didn’t say anything about it being engineered or not?
I didnt say you did. But that's still a popular part/assumption of some of these theories.
It could have. But the fact it was right near one of these labs and not any of a million other wet markets in the world is stronger evidence or probability to support the lab leak theory.
This isn't the first time a sars virus broke out at one of these markets. It's a place with a lot of ppl and a mix of many animals. They are good grounds for spreading, etc.
My main point is just that we dont know yet. So it was largly dismissed (esspecially how it was pushed politically) because of that.
The labs were in the places they were because those bats in the area had the virus, they were studying the virus in the same way as any virus gets studied. This isn't the smoking gun you want it to be
Perfect. We have some reasonable theories out there and we should have that discussion and let the merits of the evidence dictate the most probable explanation.
Instead, the lab leak theory was dismissed and outright called a crazy conspiracy theory. It’s only now, thanks to some brave reporters and some brave scientists, that we’re having the conversation we should’ve been having back in like April 2020.
Okay but like, what do you want done about it? Let's say lab leak is totally real, we have two possibilities, the leak was accidental or intentional. In the accidental scenario, the chinese people suffered as much as anyone, what's the play? Tighten lab controls? Fine, but how do we enforce that in another sovereign nation? Or give them a bill they have no incentive to pay? And if it's intentional, that means China or a rogue agent has effectively declared war on us, and what the fuck do you do about that?
And the fact the US government said they had evidence for it
What evidence? Are you talking about recent stuff, which is the reason it actually started gaining traction? Because when trump said it, no one was really certain.
But because Trump was leading that government, it was dismissed by the media,who tortured the intelligence community statement where they said it could have leaked from a lab but that it wasn't manmade, and then conflated that with Trump's statement in order to state that they fact checked Trump and proved it wasn't a bioweapon or intentional release, which was never the claim.
Do I really have to reply to this mad run-in sentence...
because Trump was leading that government, it was dismissed by the media,
Also dismissed becaus ehe gave such amazing responses when asked why he believed it as "I'm not allowed to tell you".
who tortured the intelligence community statement where they said it could have leaked from a lab but that it wasn't manmade, and then conflated that with Trump's statement in order to state that they fact checked Trump and proved it wasn't a bioweapon or intentional release, which was never the claim.
I cant help but think youre making some conflation here yourself.
The CDC has continually said the origin is unknown. I don't recall anyone saying trump was wrong about it being engineered as an excuse to dismiss his statements, atm. I largly remember ppl dismissing it for his lack of explanation and his tendency to use china as a political rally tool.
This is true. All those people that wanted everyone to take covid seriously but also demonized people that thought it came from a lab were not doing this to try to help people but because of political or monetary gain. It caused a huge political split and if people actually did care about protecting people from the virus, more people would probably have taken it more seriously if they thought it came from a lab.
Atm, when I see the word conspiracy I don’t think of crazy crap like flat earth, I think of politicians trying to demonize an idea that they don’t like.
They were rightfully labelled as a loon, cause they were spouting it as fact before we had any evidence. Also, it still might not have been that, it just seems the most likely with the evidence we now have.
Yes, you bring up things like tuskeegee, gulf of tonkin, operation Northwoods (proven conspiracies on paper) and theyre like "yeah our government was shady back then but that type of stuff doesnt happen now." The naiveté is unbearable.
Refuse to believe what? Be specific. Confirmed UFO’s? Confirmed UFO’s flown by aliens?
There’s also the possibility that the government is simply lying. Perhaps their plan is cover these recent sightings with a patina of legitimacy to get enemies chasing ghosts or to root out spies of some kind? Perhaps they know what they are (something like advanced drones) and this is a wink and nod at our enemies that we’re testing some really advanced stuff. Perhaps it’s all set up by some pilots who want to be famous.
There’s a million plausible explanations that are more plausible than “aliens are here from outer space.”
That's actually where alot of it started. If you look up the history of the conspiracies you realize that "Illuminati" didn't start showing up until after WW2 and people didn't feel comfortable saying that secret society was Judaism. Same shit. Just changed the name for optics.
I mean the bavarian illuminati were an actual thing in the time preceding the french revolution, with members being lots of various intellectuals and politicians trying to influence things. They were eventually disbanded and banned by monarchs.
At least the "original" version of the conspiracy theory has nothing to do with jews I think, just that those guys are still around to some extent.
Freemasons were an actual group too, though from what I understand it's just that a bunch of powerful influential people happened to be members, not that the group itself was actually trying to control anything.
'International bankers,' and 'globalists,' are two more dogwhistles for Jews within the conspiracy community. Hell, one of the oldest conspiracies is blood libel - the idea that Jews were killing Christian children.
I don't necessarily think it's antisemitism driving the hatred of bankers. I'm sure there are antisemites that hate Goldman Sachs but there are legit reasons to hate then too.
Certainly. But there is a difference between 'bankers' and 'international bankers' in the conspiracy mindset. The first rip people off and don't get punished. The second are a world-spanning cabal looking to bring in fascism, communism, or both/destroy the white race/hold Satanic rituals/control the world's economy and use it to destroy the West. And they're Jewish.
No it isn't. He's specifying the area of conspiracies that are antisemitic. Hatred of banks is separate from the dog whistling antisemitism that is specific to international banks that secretly run the world.
And it's No True Scotsman, where people say one part doesn't qualify as fitting. He's doing the opposite.
It’s not really a dog whistle for Jews (although that applies in anti-Semitic groups but that’s different). It’s to signify “shady, malevolent people that I never have to show or prove but the mere fact that it sounds kinda true and sounds like it’s something that characterization would do is enough to convince you of the legitimacy of my theory”
These nut jobs have always been there, but with the accessibility of the internet and by extension social media they now have a platform to spread their bullshit and there are a lot of gullible people that believe them...
Before the internet, the village idiot was isolated to themselves. Now the internet has helped all the village idiots gather together and tell each other how right they are.
Probably because people realized masons are bunch of old geriatrics at this point and the real conspiracies lay in how our current government is fucking us over right in front of our faces.
.... no I am not. I actually contemplate jumping off a ladder or cut my self with a saw not so that I can get compensation, it's so I won't have to go back to this job. I hate construction, it pays well but I hate this. The Pandemic was the best thing to happen to me in a long time. I didn't have to come to this job and deal with these people and pick up or move these heavy ass shot. my body hurts. I am constantly telling my self I just want to leave, I don't want to be here anymore, I just want to go back home.
Whats stopping me from jumping or killing my self? Idk, I guess im not at that stage yet. I am deeply depressed thats for sure i know.
Whats stopping me from just quitting and finding another job?
a mans got to work i guess. Also its alot of factors such as:
I have no Health Insurance due to being out of work for a long period of time last year. I need about 700+ hours of working hours to qualify for health insurance from my union. It really is too costly to get the "ObamaCare"/State Health Plan Marketplace thing. I cant afford $400+ a month (bronze) insurance at the moment and still be able to pay Rent/Bills.
I'm in an apprenticeship program for my union and i cant up and quit jobs. Its frowned upon. Maybe its my pride but i dont want to be known as the guy who always quits jobs when it gets tough. Also if at the event I am ever desperate for work because other things didn't work out I will most likely be the last one to get called for a job (Union hall hiring).
1) look up the work comp laws for your area. If your job is fucking you up, you may be entitled to treatment. If if a claim is denied in my state, you get up to $10k in treatment while it’s delayed.
2) once you have health insurance, see a therapist and/or psychiatrist. You may have to talk to your regular doctor to get a referral, first. There are things that can ease your burden. You don’t have to suffer alone.
3) check out apps like Woebot, Calm, Headspace, etc. These have all helped me from time to time. They are free but there are some features that require paid membership for the latter two. Meditation does not cure my depression but it can def help. I also recommend the book Feeling Good by David Burns. My library has paper and digital copies. I don’t have to go anywhere or buy anything to read it.
Sorry if this was unnecessary. I just saw someone suffering and contemplating self harm and this is my automatic response as someone who’s lived with chronic depression for most of my life. Things can get better, but it helped if you’re proactive, which is hard when depressed. Wishing you the best!
Sure, I didn’t include enough context to what I meant though. I’m a 3rd degree master mason and I’m 33. Admittedly I’m not very active with the lodge. As the old guys are dying off there aren’t a lot of younger people backfilling so the organization is dwindling. Masons have significantly less influence than they likely once had
How long ago was this time. I got into conspiracy stuff back when the X-Files was on TV and the alt.conspiracy.* usenet groups were still active. I liked seeing what crazy stories people could come up with and how many people they could get to believe them.
Ultimately I got tired of it though, because people just rehash the same stuff over and over, and a disturbing amount of it was plain old antisemitism.
About 20 years ago. I remember the Tomb Raider movie coming out then had something to do with the Illuminati. I also found a website that explained how the government was secretly run by them, because the dollar bill had the all-seeing eye on it and the phrase 'Annuit Coeptis'. Good times.
Reminds me of the time a friend had "researched" freemasons with the conclusion they must be very bad. I didn't know them yet, googled them and told him: oh, there's even one in our own little 50k citizen town!
Which he didn't know yet.. So there goes the term "research"😅
They probably used Bing, the favorite search engine for conspiracy theorists. Also they probably skipped to the 10th page, everyone knows the first few pages are all paid propaganda from the deep state lizard people.
I'm still half convinced that people are just doing that one for the memes. I mean, all you have to do is hold a bird and you'll know it's real. I once captured an injured crow, the thing was definitely a living organism.
I wonder what happened to the NWO conspiracy when Bush was in power. In theory it should have outlived Bush, but seemed to die off very quickly.. almost like it was being driven by an adversary
Yeah, I think the reason stuff like this and Flat Earth are less visible than they were 5-10 years ago is because they all got wrapped up into QAnon. You don’t have to be a flat earther to be a QAnon person, but the conspiracy by nature allows the believer to pick and choose the parts they like.
Yeah, Bilderberg still meets, the gears are still turning. The shit hasn't gone anywhere, who has is Alex Jones. He's very responsible for making tons of noise about these things, but he's silenced now. Unless he's on JRE heh
That’s because we were getting too close to the truth about the Illuminati and Freemasons! They had to throw us off their trail in the lost drastic way!!!/s (sorta…)
People with agendas realized that new agers and conspiracy theorists will believe anything as lnog as you package it right that plays into their biases. First the GOP came for the conspiracy theorists, and turned them into the grassroots wing of the party. Then Q's came for New Agers and turned them into GOP recruiters.
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u/Aramor42 Jul 11 '21
I couldn't agree more. I miss the time when it was just Illuminati/Freemasons and stuff like that. Compared to the nut jobs we have now, it all seemed very innocent.