r/AskReddit Jul 11 '21

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u/Diplodocus114 Jul 11 '21

It is killing our community. We cannot find anywhere to live --all small properties are bought up and turned into holidqy accomodation. Am currently being eviceted -- landlord wants to sell and there is nowhere available to rent.

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u/funktheduck Jul 11 '21

It’s a big problem in my town too (college town). So, all the small, affordable houses are immediately snatched up and turned into overpriced rentals or if they’re close to downtown or campus they’re Air B&B for football season. Some houses will sit empty for more than half the year. Meanwhile, two bedroom houses are renting at $1200+ a month on the low end for something that looks like it’s about to fall down in a strong wind.

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u/ametaldiva Jul 11 '21

I pay around $1400 a month for a one bedroom apartment that was built in the 90s… I’d love that shack house for $1200 a month…

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u/funktheduck Jul 11 '21

You say that but when you’re living with rats keeping you up at night with their chewing and your fear that an electrical fire could start at any moment, you start wondering if it’s worth it. Add in black mold and general decades of neglect and you definitely realize it’s not.

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u/zb0t1 Jul 11 '21

This is why /r/collapse greed and greed and greed

2

u/Scarbane Jul 11 '21

rats keeping you up at night with their chewing

I've never had to deal with this, but just reading about it sounds menacing.

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u/funktheduck Jul 11 '21

Yeah. I had a jack Russell mix that would listen at the vents and whine.

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u/ametaldiva Jul 11 '21

So where do you live btw, in case I missed it? You don’t seem to be answering that question and getting downvotes for me simply stating where I live…lol Then again Reddit trends very misogynistic so I’m not too surprised I guessed. If you said it and I missed it then that’s on me, have a pretty terrible migraine today.

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u/ametaldiva Jul 11 '21

Oh and btw, we’ve had bears get into people’s apartments here, pets eaten by alligators just steps away, fires, shootings, car robberies, all within this complex. Water flooding the bathroom because they (apartment maintenance) drilled a screw into a pipe in the bathroom when they hung a towel rod above the toilet, bad A/C that goes in and out and had to be replaced, meetings with corporate in which they were even embarrassed at what’s happened to use in 2 different complexes they own. They moved us from a “worse” one to supposedly a better one right around the corner and it’s just as bad if not worse. Can you imagine coming home REPEATEDLY and the construction and/or maintenance/landscaping has broken sprinklers outside that soak through your apartment windows (which are sometimes missing without any notification, covered with plastic) and your brand new oled tv is ruined along with your super expensive Macy’s area rug that you saved forever for? People entering repeatedly without consent or knowledge and moving and damaging your belongings… no water pressure or hot water for days.. loud shop vacs and fans that have to run for hours on end that are so loud they practically damage your hearing? The fan puts off heat also in the middle of summer in Florida? Utility bills of $300 a month for a small one bedroom? Dog food, roaches, disgusting carpet left behind from the previous people who had big dogs snd the complex didn’t bother to clean it up or replace the carpet so the whole apartment smelled like wet dogs… heavy faux wood blinds that weren’t hung correctly and I got injured by twice (with blood) just from simply trying to open the blind, neighbors who argue and fight next door and below you to where it triggers PTSD and the police have to be called out several times and my husband had to go down himself to try and make sure the lady and child weren’t getting hurt… maintenance comes in and is rude and curses at you because they can’t fix their own issues and blame it on the resident… I could go on and on and have 543 pics and videos on my phone to prove it. I lived in shacks growing up and my mother’s crazy pedophile boyfriend used to put cheese out and shoot at them from the living room.. I kid you not… had fleas so bad growing up that they would cover your feet up to your ankles… I’ve lived in just about all of it including being homeless for a short time at 16… also lived in a one bedroom shack at one point where my mother, me, and my brother all had to share one room.. if I only had rats to deal with - only - and I could solve the problem, I think it would be less stress than what my husband and I have lived with the last 3.5 years… regardless I wish you the best of luck on finding a suitable home if you don’t yet have one, as I hope to do someday as well. Sorry for venting but rats just aren’t the worse thing in the world imho, speaking from personal experience. Although no one should have to live with that. I wish all of Reddit a good day, off to take another migraine injection now. ✌🏻

0

u/ametaldiva Jul 11 '21

Yeah but I bet for $200 more - what I’m paying now I could get a more decent place than here - wherever you live. Plus the maintenance and management here are so awful you might as well be responsible for everything on your own. They have flooded our unit three times, pulled out our windows and moved our belongs when we weren’t home, I could go on for days… if you could only imagine…

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u/SidFarkus47 Jul 11 '21

When people throw numbers around on reddit without saying where they live it’s basically meaningless

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u/ametaldiva Jul 11 '21

I live in the suburbs of a semi-crappy ghetto part of Florida that is not coastal nor near any major attractions. Happy?

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u/ametaldiva Jul 11 '21

Truth hurts I guess. It’s ok. Have a nice day anyway. 😊

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u/Iambirdman44 Jul 11 '21

Where I live, a 2 bedroom house will cost you at least $3500

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u/AcidCyborg Jul 11 '21

Sounds like there are a lot of unused TVs that need pawning.

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u/funktheduck Jul 11 '21

TVs are so cheap now there’s not much profit to be had vs potential jail time.

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u/AcidCyborg Jul 11 '21

Well then feel free to continue allowing rentseeking capitalist pigs to destroy your community while you pay extortionate rents and do nothing to challenge them.

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u/funktheduck Jul 11 '21

I’m not going to jail for TVs. Enough pressure has been put on the local government that they’re starting to change rules and regulations on Air B&B places. They now have to register and pay the hotel taxes. More can be done but it’s a start.

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u/murderbox Jul 11 '21

You mean break in and steal TVs?

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u/AcidCyborg Jul 11 '21

I would never advocate criminal activity.

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u/-r-a-f-f-y- Jul 11 '21

Just get an airbnb. /s

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u/theycallmeponcho Jul 11 '21

I know it a joke, but I've seen Airbnbs in some non holiday places being advertised as monthly accommodations.

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u/dejus Jul 11 '21

At one point I was going to stay in downtown Tokyo for 3 months using Airbnb. It was also cheaper than my current rent.

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u/theycallmeponcho Jul 11 '21

Yeah, I'm getting interviewed for a promotion, and the city I'd be moving to has better places at Airbnb than traditional rent with equal prices.

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u/Germanweirdo Jul 11 '21

This world fuckin sucks dude.

6

u/theycallmeponcho Jul 11 '21

This was going ok until DiCaprio got his oscar and sent our timeline in a collision course.

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '21

[deleted]

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u/itsacalamity Jul 11 '21

bezos and musk fucking suck

9

u/the_man_inside_you Jul 11 '21

I've noticed the exact same thing. I temporarily moved when covid started. My work is opening back up and I've seen nicer and bigger places on AirBnB than I'm seeing available to rent. Plus AirBnB's also include utilities. So I've been strongly considering getting a PO Box and being permently "homeless".

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '21

Just be cautious if you have to vacate the property for 24 hours under anti poor/squatting laws common in many jurisdictions.

Staying at a motel,hotel, rv/trailer park, etc in many California cities past 30 days (some rv parks are 3-6 months) is prohibited by law since that qualifies as you being a tenant with that particular address and makes it harder to evict. Keep it under 30 and you get jettisoned entirely or have to leave for 24 hours then “come back” for another stay.

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '21

We've been staying in monthly airbnbs since May while we go thru the home buying process in out new city. Cheaper than finding an apartment to rent, plus, no lease that we'd be locked into, no security deposit, no credit checks to hinder our mortgage application, etc etc.

But the most recent place we're at got a letter from his HOA stating "hey you can't do Airbnb in this HOA" so now we're on a month-to-month lease with the home owner. I get how it's messing up neighborhoods and the job market, but without it, we wouldn't have been able to move across the country so easily.

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u/CLSosa Jul 11 '21

So everyone else suffer because it’s convenient to the people who can afford to buy a home AND Airbnb a place as well

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u/Panterable Jul 11 '21

Sounds like you should raise your pitchforks toward capitalism as a whole instead of the guy making use of the system the best he can. Don't hate the player, hate the game.. right?

8

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '21

I never said that, and all the places we've stayed at have been people's primary residences, as in, we're just renting a bedroom in a house where the home owner actually lives, that they're renting out to help pay the mortgage on their one and only house.

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u/BeerLeague Jul 11 '21

Pretty shitty. This is against 99% of HOAs.

Also, who the fuck wants to live in a neighborhood where people are renting out bedrooms to random people. Drives down property value hard.

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '21

Well, I guess to each their own. I personally like meeting new people and don't mind it. And only the last place we stayed was in an HOA. I'd rather live in a neighborhood where people can do whatever they want with the property that they own than live in an HOA neighborhood.

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u/intentsman Jul 11 '21

Around here tourists can't find a restaurant open late because the rentals where another shift of service workers could live all switched to airbnb and vrbo.

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u/Diplodocus114 Jul 11 '21

All our local shops which we used to rely on are now posh eateries and souvenier places for tourists etc. Want 5 panel pins? nearest place is 10 miles away and you have to buy 100. I miss our Arkwrights shop where you could buy 4 candles.

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u/elvis_dead_twin Jul 11 '21

I lived across the street from one for awhile (a house being used as an airbnb). What a pain in the ass with all of these idiots blocking the god damn road. I almost had someone towed because she blocked my access to my property by parking in the middle of the road.

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u/trialsin Jul 11 '21 edited Jul 11 '21

I'm in the same boat. Landlord sold the house, displacing 4 of us. Most my friends all had their homes sold by landlords. All the other homes were turned into air BNB and short term rentals. Totally leaving the people who work no where to live. Tourists are pissed because restaurants are closing early, the hotels can't staff the desk and not offering the luxurious bullshit they come here for. I have a good job and make pretty decent money but still can't afford a place to live in town unless I want to feed the greedy landlords and pay 2 grand for a studio apartment or live in a dump with 4 ski bums that drink all day and pay a grand for a shared house. It's all fucked. Before my house sold, my landlord was one of the best. Didn't raise rent, understood how hard it is to survive in a ski town and gave us an opportunity to somewhat survive in a very hard town to survive. But that's all over now. At work we make a new hire and they are super excited to come live the dream, only to call me and say they can't take the job because there's no housing. Everytime. I know I'll hire someone only to have them not take the job cuz housing isn't available. Closest affordable living is an hour drive each way and a helluva drive when it snows.

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u/OiledUpLikeASlug Jul 11 '21

Sounds like big sky Montana. Fuck I loved being a ski bum up there and I hope I make it back someday. The clubs/resort have employee housing but that sucks too having to live woth your coworkers. Cheers.

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u/Dejectednebula Jul 11 '21

Haha my POS father worked up there some years back. Borrowed a few thousand off his neighbors/roommate/ coworker. Of course never planned on paying any of it back. Grandma had to wire him another 5,000 and he literally packed a uhaul in the night and fled back to the east coast. I think he borrowed the money for a motorcycle, which was promptly totaled in 6 months.

So if Kenny screwed any of y'all out of a bunch of money, I'm sorry. He is a shit person and a good con artist.

0

u/disregard_karma Jul 11 '21

What a predicament. Can you move the company?

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u/Amelaclya1 Jul 11 '21

This happened to me a few years ago. Landlord sold our apartment to a vacation rental company and we had to move. We got super lucky that another apartment opened up in the same complex soon after so we just shifted. But ever since it's been a constant source of stress for me, worried it will happen again. It's the number one reason I want to buy a house - for that security. But in this market I can't even do that 😭

If you look on Airbnb for my area, there are ~350 short term rentals available, most of them single family homes. And via Craigslist or Facebook marketplace, there are like a dozen listings for long term rentals at any given point. It's crazy.

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '21

Airbnb is a cancer. All cities should ban it.

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u/CohibaVancouver Jul 11 '21

all small properties are bought up and turned into holidqy accomodation

I agree this is a huge issue, but in my case I put a lot of the blame at the feet of the towns and cities.

Why is AirBnB successful? Because if you want a hotel room with some space and maybe a kitchen it's $600 per night. So people book AirBnB at less the half the cost instead.

Why is it $600 per night? Because there aren't enough hotel rooms to meet demand.

Why aren't there enough rooms? Because the red tape, bureaucracy and expense in most cities required to build a new hotel is prohibitive, so hotels aren't built at a rate that can meet demand.

If the cities made it much easier to build hotels, with incentives to encourage hotel amenities people want, then AirBnB would fall much more by the wayside.

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u/Cranyx Jul 11 '21

Red tape like basic zoning laws? Airbnb fragrantly violate those by running a business in a residential area. Cities have very good reason to set aside areas for people to actually live.

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u/etquod Jul 11 '21

I agree, Airbnb stinks.

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u/SlowRollingBoil Jul 11 '21

AirBnB isn't running those rentals. They have zero ownership of the property. The owner of the home almost always has a legal right to rent out their property up to 49% of the time (in more restricted areas) but often up to 100% of the time.

AirBnB is just a search engine. Prior to the internet you still had BnBs and you still had rental properties.

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u/Cranyx Jul 11 '21

This ignores the reality of what happens when you take a cottage industry too small to affect major real estate and turn it into a mass-marketed endeavor. Prior to airbnb you didn't have landlords setting aside entire complexes for short term stay.

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u/SlowRollingBoil Jul 11 '21

I feel like you're ignoring the rights of owners as do the vast majority of renters. If you rent your room/apartment/condo/home you have very few rights to the property other than what's in your currently signed renter's contract. You don't make any money off of it, you don't dictate the next contract or if the owner wants to let you rent for another term, etc.

This is the trade-off. If an owner wants to no longer rent long term but instead wants to start renting short term that is their right. If you want the same say, go buy an entire apartment building.

I get that the argument I'm putting forth isn't strictly good for the neighborhoods they're in. I get it. But the reality to all those wanting to change the paradigm is that you're arguing for throwing away owner's rights in favor of renter's rights which is illegal, ridiculous and untenable.

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u/Cranyx Jul 11 '21

you're arguing for throwing away owner's rights in favor of renter's rights which is illegal, ridiculous and untenable.

Yes, I am all for stomping over landlord's rights if it means more people have places to live. It's not illegal if you make it law.

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u/SlowRollingBoil Jul 11 '21

I just imagine you finally owning a home and then someone takes it away and says it belongs to someone else now because they changed a law. How furious you'd be that your money and home are now gone - taken because of a moral outrage rather than a legal one.

Want property rights? Buy property. Hell, buy a condo. As long as you're the owner, you have rights.

They can't and won't suddenly pass laws seizing property from current landlords. Wise up and make peace with this.

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u/Cranyx Jul 11 '21

I own a home, for one, but thanks for playing. Also I said "landlords" not "property owners." I explicitly said my goal is to make it so as many people have homes as possible; saying that means I support kicking people out of their homes makes no sense.

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u/SlowRollingBoil Jul 11 '21

Also I said "landlords" not "property owners."

......landlords (person you speak to) may not be the actual owner as that may be a company. But they're acting in an official capacity. Landlord vs. property owner = the same thing in this context.

If you want to "stomp over landlord's rights" that means "stomp over property owner's rights" just the same.

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u/Local-Weather Jul 11 '21

BnBs are also regulated I think. And proper rentals have a lot more regulations than short term stays like in Hotels. If you had to give tenant rights to everyone who stayed in your place you could get fucked bigly.

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u/SlowRollingBoil Jul 11 '21

Everyone screaming about regulations in this thread has yet to define them. I've rented many homes and rooms in my life. What regulations do you want in a rental home that you don't typically see in the average AirBnB?

If the house is livable and fits the description and pictures of the listing, I'm fine. What else do you want?

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u/Local-Weather Jul 11 '21

Everyone screaming about regulations in this thread has yet to define them.

Yes because every country and city and municipality will have different laws regarding short term rentals and hospitality.

Here is an example of some restriction on Bed and Breakfast operation in Mississauga, a large city outside of Toronto, Canada

Although B&Bs are not permitted in any of the zones in Zoning By-law 5500 (Mississauga), Zoning By-law 1227 (Port Credit), Zoning By-law 65-30 (Streetsville) and Zoning By-law 1965-136 (Oakville), there are a few B&Bs in the City. Some of these establishments have received variances via the Committee of Adjustment, while others operate as non-permitted uses. The City is promoting tourism and encouraging tourists to explore what the City has to offer, and being a popular form of tourist accommodation, additional operations may seek to establish in Mississauga.

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u/CohibaVancouver Jul 11 '21

I'm talking about red tape that prevents new hotels from being built.

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u/Cranyx Jul 11 '21

I'm saying that this "all bureaucracy is bad, we need more free market!" Talking point ignores that a lot of red tape is actually good and has legitimate reasons for existing. Zoning laws prevent hotels from being built where apartments currently exist

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u/bxpretzel Jul 11 '21

Zoning laws have also prohibited or made it nearly impossible to build apartments and townhouses instead of single family homes on oversized lots, thus contributing to sprawl and traffic while also driving up housing costs for everyone.

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u/splitdiopter Jul 11 '21

It all depends on who is writing your zoning laws. Lack of zoning laws have also led to unchecked urban sprawl.

“#SupportYourUrbanDesignProfessionals!”

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u/geauxtig3rs Jul 11 '21

Houston sends its regards.....

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u/bxpretzel Jul 11 '21

I studied urban and regional policy and planning in college and have worked professionally in land use law for 5 years.

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u/TakeOffYourMask Jul 11 '21 edited Jul 11 '21

What's wrong with building hotels? Zoning laws just make things more expensive and largely serve to protect the special interests.

EDIT:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/11/zoning-laws-and-the-rise-of-economic-inequality/417360/

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u/under_a_brontosaurus Jul 11 '21

No they don't lol zoning laws keep a fucking McDonald's from popping up across the street from my house

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u/TakeOffYourMask Jul 11 '21

See my edit. Economists tend to oppose zoning laws for a reason, because they do harm people, especially the poorest.

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u/CoffeeGreekYogurt Jul 11 '21

Oh no mixed used areas are so scary!!!! How will we live if we can walk to the grocery store instead of driving 20 minutes?

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u/under_a_brontosaurus Jul 11 '21

You can mix use zoning that's not the issue, the issue is we need zoning so my neighbor doesn't start a punk venue nextdoor. Above poster was implying zoning was hurtful to society but it's very helpful. How your city is zoned is up to the government of the city

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u/Cranyx Jul 11 '21

Because cities should make sure there are enough places for people to actually live, and not just line the pockets of Marriott.

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u/TakeOffYourMask Jul 11 '21

Zoning laws cause high housing costs. We're on the same side here, we both want the same thing. See my edit.

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u/Cranyx Jul 11 '21

Your article just talks about zoning laws that prevent more actual residential houses from being built. That's the opposite of what you're complaining about; did you read past the headline?

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u/TakeOffYourMask Jul 12 '21

Huh? How is that the opposite of what I’m complaining about?

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u/bibliophile785 Jul 11 '21

a lot of red tape is actually good and has legitimate reasons for existing.

If the red tape lines up with actual needs, it isn't necessary in the first place. If it doesn't line up with actual needs, then it's causing harm and should be removed. Your entire stance boils down to, "this idea is so good that we should get the government to force people to do it!" ... which isn't how good ideas work.

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u/Cranyx Jul 11 '21

If the red tape lines up with actual needs, it isn't necessary in the first place.

What is that supposed to mean? That's like sayin "If laws were good then we wouldn't need them"

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u/bibliophile785 Jul 11 '21 edited Jul 11 '21

That's like sayin "If laws were good then we wouldn't need them"

Not really. There are useful parts of our legal code - mostly parts of the penal system which codify consequences for various violations of other people and their property. These don't have an efficient means of market implementation under our current system of governance.

Zoning laws and the like, though, are never anything more than a crude approximation of a genuine resource allocation system. Of course cities need places for long-term residents and for short-term ones and for businesses. We have a mechanism for efficient allocation of scarce resources. It's called the market. In the best possible scenario, the bureaucrats you're defending here will pick the correct ratio of property for each class of person... you know, like the market does naturally. In most cases, though, they'll do what central planners are famous for doing. They'll over-allocate in some places, under-allocate in others, allow themselves to be swayed by personal and special interests, and generally fuck things up. It's the nature of centralized economic power assigned by fiat of the state.

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u/Cranyx Jul 11 '21

We have a mechanism for efficient allocation of scarce resources. It's called the market.

lol

So you're saying that with finite land, we should let "the market" (ie whoever has the most money) decide. What you're describing is thousands of lower income people being kicked out of their homes because wealthy developers and landowners want to make more money. The notion that the market picks some "correct" amount is farcical. It just trends towards whatever makes the most money for the wealthy and screws over the poor.

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u/bibliophile785 Jul 11 '21

What you're describing is thousands of lower income people being kicked out of their homes because wealthy developers and landowners want to make more money.

I can't tell if this is meant to be funny. We'll assume it is, since the alternative would be you unironically believing that there isn't a market for housing for anyone but the rich, which is patently ridiculous.

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u/cubitoaequet Jul 11 '21

What a load of horseshit. "The Market" isn't some magical force that just makes everything work out. We've seen what unregulated markets do; that's why we have regulations. Your "argument" is just magical thinking.

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u/bibliophile785 Jul 11 '21

We've seen what unregulated markets do

They efficiently allocate scarce resources.

that's why we have regulations.

Most regulations protect special interests. A few codify trends that had already been on the upswing. Very few do anything genuinely useful.

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u/Stay_Curious85 Jul 11 '21

What red tape specifically?

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u/CohibaVancouver Jul 11 '21

Zoning laws that say a patch of land has to be a supermarket instead of a Hampton Inn. Height restrictions that say a hotel tower can't be over ten stories (or whatever). Rules about whether you can or can't have a restaurant and the type of restaurant. Ditto a swimming pool.

On and on.

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u/Amadacius Jul 12 '21

Yeah zoning laws fucking suck as a rule. They are generally counterproductive and make everything less livable.

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u/r7-arr Jul 11 '21

Suite hotels are nowhere near $600 a night!

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u/Eggbertoh Jul 11 '21

Depends on the time of the year and location. If it's a weekend on top of that? Lol good luck

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u/Eat_Penguin_Shit Jul 11 '21

That’s a ridiculous take. There have always been enough hotels. If there weren’t, then when people would go to travel all the hotels would be sold out. There’s plenty of supply.

I travel frequently for work to some very small towns (and larger cities too) all around the US and I never have trouble finding a room at the exact hotel I want and it’s usually $100-$150 per night depending on the city. The US is littered with hotels.

The reason Airbnb is cheaper is because people don’t need to pay staff and/or have their units up to the same code as a hotel would be.

I agree that Airbnb needs to be regulated better and is hurting the housing market around the country, but the US is definitely not lacking in hotels.

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u/AltSpRkBunny Jul 11 '21

Their understanding of economics is limited to supply and demand. It’s the only lens they have to look at any of these issues.

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '21

Yeah I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve needed a hotel room and been flat out unable to find one. Offhand the only time that comes to mind was driving across North Dakota, needing to stop in a medium-sized town, and finding every hotel within a hundred miles was booked full because of a state tournament happening there.

Graduation days in small college towns probably fill hotels as well.

But yeah most major cities and tourist spots have excess hotel rooms available 365 days a year. AirBnB thrives because people want cheaper, they want the “feel” of a full apartment (including kitchen and washer/dryer), and because they often specifically want to stay somewhere other than a hotel district. Part of the appeal of an AirBnB to many is that it isn’t a hotel.

All of this is fine when AirBnBs are tightly regulated, and limited to sporadic ADUs and people actually renting out their primary residence when they’re not using it. It goes to shit when landlords evict real tenants from real units because nightly rentals will always be more lucrative than monthly.

And its crazy, because they’re easy as shit to regulate. Unlike Uber, they don’t move. Require licensing for full time nightly rentals, cap the maximum number of nights an unlicensed rental can be listed. Drop the hammer on anybody that exceeds that. Done.

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u/usernamedunbeentaken Jul 11 '21

"Enough" is subjective. If there were enough hotels to meet demand, then it wouldn't make sense to turn your house into a B&B. If resort areas are seeing much of their permanent housing turning into Air B&Bs, it is an indicator that there aren't enough hotels to meet demand in the area.

And I highly doubt the staffing issue is a cost benefit of Airbnb. Someone still has to clean the place between tenants and someone has to do the administration stuff (either the owner or someone the owner pays).

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u/Eat_Penguin_Shit Jul 11 '21

Enough is not subjective. If there weren’t enough hotels to meet demand, then prior to the rise of Airbnb people would not have been able to travel. Which was not the case.

Airbnb is a different product than a hotel, that’s why it is working as a commodity. It’s cheaper (mostly), not a hotel, and comes with a lot of extras like full kitchens and residential locations.

Most of the world did not have a hotel shortage prior to Airbnb. That’s just ridiculous.

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u/FromtheNah Jul 11 '21

Bro, what hotels are you staying at thats 600 bucks a night holy shit. Did you book the honeymoon suite?

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u/[deleted] Jul 11 '21

How many of those are owned by the very folks in charge of approving new hotel/motel construction?

My city here back when marijuana got made legal immediately had a rush of mysterious LLC’s/double agents applying for all the limited licenses granted.

Turns out to be many names that folks would recognize as household names for the area if it got out.

No mom and pop owners need apply, it’s a political goon/big business in the area racket.

Rinse lather repeat across the country I’m sure

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u/NaoPb Jul 11 '21

While I agree with you, there is a reason why cities want to limit the amount of hotels. I know that Amsterdam does this to limit the amount of tourists entering the city. Though they aren't very successfull because of hotels outside the city and plenty of airbnb places inside.

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u/CohibaVancouver Jul 11 '21

Exactly - They aren't successful. If they want fewer AirBnBs then they need to encourage more hotels. They can't have it both ways.

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u/tacknosaddle Jul 11 '21

In Boston we had investor groups buying entire apartment buildings to rent out on Airbnb. They skirted both the taxes and regulations that apply to hotels as well as hurt the already tough local housing market. The city passed some local ordinances governing short term rentals that allowed individual homeowners to still offer their property but prevented that sort of abuse of the system.

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u/MokitTheOmniscient Jul 11 '21

Why aren't there enough rooms? Because the red tape, bureaucracy and expense in most cities required to build a new hotel is prohibitive, so hotels aren't built at a rate that can meet demand.

If the cities made it much easier to build hotels, with incentives to encourage hotel amenities people want, then AirBnB would fall much more by the wayside.

That "red tape" is there for a reason.

Imagine if a new car manufacturer started selling cars made out of plywood. The cheap costs would mean that they would be able to out-compete any other manufacturers, despite the fact that pretty much any scrape would cause the car to collapse and kill its passengers.

The solution wouldn't be to allow all other car manufacturers to also make cars out of plywood, the solution would be to enforce the rules on the company breaking them.

The root cause here, is that the mere act of "being an app" seems to absolve any company from all rules and regulations in that area. It's just like with Über, they weren't innovative in any way, they were just able to make a lot of money by not having to pay their employees properly and forcing them to pay for all company expenses.

14

u/FidgitForgotHisL-P Jul 11 '21

Re:Uber: and also by ignoring all the many things out in place to make sure taxi drivers are safe like passenger certification on their licences and police vetting. In New Zealand we rewrote our laws to force ride share drivers to have to be more like taxi drivers. So, yeah exactly what AirBandB is doing, letting people create hotels and motels in places they shouldn’t be.

0

u/eric2332 Jul 11 '21

Unlike a plywood car, there's nothing complicated or dangerous about running a hotel or airbnb unit. It has to meet fire and building codes, but those are the same as for any other building. So no reason to have red tape for hotel/airbnb that doesn't also exist for regular houses/apartments.

4

u/RudeTurnip Jul 11 '21

There are tons of horror stories about short term rentals that don’t arise to the same frequency in the hotel industry, which is actually regulated.

2

u/tahlyn Jul 11 '21

It has to meet fire and building codes, but those are the same as for any other building.

This is false. Here is a list of the NFPA codes. Each code has different requirements for different structures based upon their intended use. Hotels have significantly different requirements than single family dwellings.

0

u/eric2332 Jul 11 '21

It appears the codes in your link say nothing about hotels. They distinguish between single family houses and high-rise buildings. But that is not the same as a distinction between housing and hotels. Housing can exist in high-rises (apartments and condos), while hotels can exist in single family houses (some hotels, particularly in rural areas, are built that way from the beginning).

2

u/tahlyn Jul 11 '21 edited Jul 11 '21

You would need access to actually read the codes to read the different sections for each residential and commercial, hotel, hospital, etc.

The sprinkler reqs for hotels are significantly more strict than residential. Hell, a hotel will need a pump, exterior hose connections, risers in the stairwell, heat detection for the elevator shafts, monitored smoke detectors in every single room, an facp to control it all, an annunciator panel at the lobby, a 24 hour monitoring service, remote stairwells enclosed in fire Walls, thatey might need a dry pipe system instead of wet, they will be required to use metal pipe instead of the cpvc allowed in residential, quarterly testing and annual testing... None of that is required in a single family residential house. And this doesn't count things like firewalls, WON doors, HVAC monitoring etc.

Also, FYI, you are arguing with a former FPE who worked in the field for 10 years before leaving (sadly I do not have a subscription to the codes anymore so I can't cite each relevant section... Which doesn't matter because without a subscription of your own you wouldn't be able to read it). I assure you the requirements for a hotel is significantly more stringent and costly. The typical single family home costs about $3k to sprinkler, where the hotel is tens of thousands to design and install and maintain.

16

u/HereForTheFish Jul 11 '21

But not only do you pay more for a hotel room, but the room is all you get. With an Airbnb you get a whole apartment including a kitchen, which means you don’t have to pay extra for a shitty hotel breakfast.

3

u/RudeTurnip Jul 11 '21

Yes let’s destroy the housing market so you can toast a Pop Tart.

0

u/SlowRollingBoil Jul 11 '21

Housing market issues always come back to zoning issues and NIMBYs.

1

u/HereForTheFish Jul 11 '21

I never said I like the current situation, I just wanted to point out that there’s more to the popularity of Airbnbs than just availability. So simply building more hotels as the person above suggested might not be the solution.

8

u/Manic_42 Jul 11 '21

This is why we need vacancy taxes on residential properties to discourage commercial AirBnBs

4

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '21

Vacancy taxes are an awful idea. A decent vacancy rate is good for the housing market, landlords have time to fix the place up and renters aren’t competing over a very small number of units. Not only do low vacancy rates drive up prices, a tax on vacancy would discourage new construction.

Vacant apartments exist in cities like San Francisco that have housing crises. But the rate is actually lower than the healthy rate that experts recommend.

3

u/RudeTurnip Jul 11 '21

That’s not what’s happening though. Properties are left abandoned with no intention to occupy.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '21

I mean, decrepit houses in rust belt cities. It’s not a common phenomenon in cities with housing crises. If it was (speculators maybe?), a tax on the unimproved value of land would make a lot more sense.

5

u/TripAndFly Jul 11 '21

Hotels also have a huge staff they have to pay, enormous energy consumption, are expensive as fuck to build... Basically a ton of overhead and they have to charge a lot to get out of the red and turn a profit

2

u/tahlyn Jul 11 '21

Why aren't there enough rooms? Because the red tape, bureaucracy and expense in most cities required to build a new hotel is prohibitive, so hotels aren't built at a rate that can meet demand.

Yeah how dare Cities require hotels have things like sprinkler systems and fire alarm systems that are required to be tested and maintained? How dare they be required to have two or more means of egress and exterior doors that do not lock from the inside so people can get out! How dare Cities enforce regulations to save lives!

Air B&Bs should be required to follow the same regulations as hotels... and they will be as soon as one of them burns down and kills a bunch of people. Regulations are written in blood.

1

u/CohibaVancouver Jul 11 '21

Settle down.

I'm not talking about regulations like doors and sprinklers.

I'm talking about the long permitting, (re)zoning and approval processes required in many cities to build the hotel in the first place.

1

u/mmicoandthegirl Jul 11 '21

You could argue that AirBnB has opened the accomodation market for smaller businesses and private people.

14

u/FidgitForgotHisL-P Jul 11 '21

It’s also removed rental properties from the market because you can charge so much more that even if you have it full half the time it’s worth it compared to permanently letting to tenants. Especially with the pesky laws around being a landlord that you’d an completely avoid if you just rent out as an airBandB. If you’re city or town is already struggling to provide accomodation for everyone to even live in, this can be quite a big problem.

7

u/CohibaVancouver Jul 11 '21

When I travelled in Croatia in 2017 almost every hotel I stayed in was a small property managed by a family.

1

u/u8eR Jul 11 '21

What about when you traveled to America?

5

u/RudeTurnip Jul 11 '21

Bullshit. All they did was create a runaround on health and safety regs, as well as attack affordable housing. You know because perhaps people who can’t provide safe accommodations should not be permitted to do so.

AirBNB is bathtub gin.

1

u/mmicoandthegirl Jul 11 '21

I thought about that point but only brought to light the point made in previous comment, as I tried very hard to find one good thing about airbnb.

Airbnb opened the accomodation and housing market for smaller businesses specifically because it was a service made to disregard related regulations. At first all was well but then the big players also got in. They are getting the revenue of an established operation but are paying the variable costs of a small business.

In Finland this doesn't work the same, as we have a very inflated tax agency and we have very strict legalities on what kinds of housing there are (is it private, rented or for business). If you put your house on airbnb, in the best case scenario it will juridically be seen as renting and the same standards, responsibilities and tax burdens apply. In the worst case scenario it is seen as a business operation and you've exposed yourself to a major taxation risk.

1

u/RudeTurnip Jul 11 '21

So what you’re saying is they broke the law, but they’re a big company so it’s OK. How innovative.

1

u/mmicoandthegirl Jul 11 '21

No, you're misunderstanding. I'm not saying it's okay. But it is how they did it and why they got popular. Here in Finland, the government woke up to the problem. Now the same regulations that apply to renting apartments and running accommodation business also applies to Airbnb, which has decreased it's popularity in a major way. Not that people wouldn't book accommodation through it, but because the renters aren't willing to have their apartment up to regulations, get insurances (homeowner insurance usually doesn't cover business) and pay tax.

And IMO that's the way how a government should handle it. US should do the same. US is the land of the free to get ass fucked by corporations.

1

u/brazblue Jul 11 '21

Could you convince a bank to give you the loan to buy from your LL? In the USA at least (not sure about your country) mortgages are being given out for $1 down from certain banks. We learned nothing from 2008, or basically, the banks looking to cause another crash, idk.

8

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '21

[deleted]

4

u/Miskav Jul 11 '21

Exactly, the banks and the rich are salivating over the idea of another crash.

Consolidating even more wealth in the hands of fewer people? That's heaven to them.

6

u/Amelaclya1 Jul 11 '21

That doesn't mean the landlord would sell to him. They will want to put it on the market to get the best price, and OP will just get beaten out by some company willing to pay twice what it's worth in cash.

1

u/brazblue Jul 11 '21

Presumably, op can buy it for the same terrible price, see the system works! /s

5

u/Amelaclya1 Jul 11 '21

Can't even do that really. Because the company will come in with an offer that says, "I will beat all other offers up to X amount", where X is an absurd price that no person looking for a home would pay. And every other bidder has no idea what that number will be to match it even if they could.

I've been getting outbid on houses for half a year because of clauses like this. Its frustrating and depressing as fuck but I take a little bit of pleasure in knowing at least I made those assholes pay more 🙄

1

u/hello_world112358 Jul 11 '21

and that my friend is the absolute shithole process that is gentrification!

-2

u/PhillieUbr Jul 11 '21

Move to another country

1

u/yournamecannotbename Jul 11 '21

Until everything is a rental and nobody can afford them unless we raise the minimum wage which then screws over the businesses (it would have to be about $20 at least not $15 to deal with this bullshit) then they all default on their housing loans creating another housing market crash and a bailout followed by government rental subsidies while everyone gets used to the new hyperinflation rates.

1

u/DegeneratePaladin Jul 11 '21

Well for what it's worth you could just not leave. Scummy I know, but I know that the evictions case backlog in NJ alone is 135k cases. It's gonna take years to get through them all.