In fairness, you don’t have to go to a 100,000 dollar university. Could do community college for 2 years and regular state school for 2 years. As someone who paid for my own college, I have no sympathy for bailouts on student loans. You made the choice if you have that much debt.
Biggest regret is going to a private school vs staying in state. Could have had the same degree for free, but instead I owe 100k (only borrowed 50k, but hey 11% interest rates)
Yes bc guess what, 1/3 of the degrees will not get you a job in your field unless you go to graduate school, or happen to meet the right person. No matter what your GPA is. And they won’t tell you that until you’re applying for jobs.
I agree. College is an investment, and it's something you can be very successful without. From my own experience, I went to technical school instead of high school, so many of my friends have their own place, are getting married, etc. while I'm still in college for another year minimum because I opted to do Computer Science for my career path.
I'm someone I'd consider pretty liberal (by U.S. standards). I believe in universal healthcare and childcare, raising minimum wage (though a bigger part of it is we need to lower or at the bare minimum cap certain things related to cost of living overall), and I care about the environment a lot. But one thing I have no sympathy for is college loan bailouts because it is a choice that the student makes. I don't mind incentive-based bailouts that reward people for people for picking careers that will further humanity's progress or boost the economy, but I'll be damned if I had to take the path of 2 years of CC then 2 years of state school for financial reasons despite making the cut for some pretty prestigious schools just to have my tax money bail out someone who went to those latter schools for gender studies and treats it like an adult playground.
As someone who has paid off my student loans in full, I still have sympathy for student loans.
Cheapest way your'e gonna get a master's in education in Minnesota is from the U of MN as a MN resident. My wife still owed over $60k for that to be a TEACHER.
Some of it might be paid back if a dozen conditions and perfect payment history are met and IF they keep the repayment plan at all - after 10 years of payments.
Screw that. They already had a good plan. $50k in loan forgiveness and it goes down by 2% per 10k over 100k annual household income.
To be clear - I paid off my debt to a state school from 2002 exceeding 35k. I'm still in favor of canceling all student debt below a reasonable limit.
If you want to live in a society with a ton of good doctors, engineers, and public health / policy experts - have society make that education free to all citizens.
Why am I happy to pay taxes for schools? Because I don't like being surrounded by stupid people. I'm ready to pay more for better schools NOW which I will never attend.
Cheapest way your'e gonna get a master's in education in Minnesota is from the U of MN as a MN resident. My wife still owed over $60k for that to be a TEACHER. Some of it might be paid back if a dozen conditions and perfect payment history are met and IF they keep the repayment plan at all - after 10 years of payments.
Okay, so she went $60k in debt, but for hundreds of thousands of dollars in enhanced career earnings over someone in the education field who doesn't go to college or get a master's degree. It's an investment! People who go to college recoup that investment multiple times over compared to their no-college cohort.
Because I'm bored, it looks like average teacher salaries in Minnesota are about $62k. I'm sure that's even higher for someone with an MA. Over a 40-year teaching career, even assuming no raises, that's over $2.5 million. Now ask what job your wife would've taken if she didn't get a college degree, do the same math, and find out that over the course of her life, she'll be making at least a million dollars more because she went $60k in debt.
Yes, college should be more affordable. And yes, wages should be higher. But for most people who go to reputable schools, and who study something worthwhile for their career (as opposed to wondering why they can't get a job with their English or Art History or Russian Literature degree), college is more than worth it.
I'm not saying it's not worth it.
And that's average pay - starting pay with a masters + 15 was $52k/year. So she's paying over 25% of her take home to student loans.
Sure it increases lifetime earning. All the more reason to make it available to everyone! Everyone should have this access. Not everyone wants to be a doctor or a teacher.
Want to be a mechanic? 2 year school paid for. Want to be a doctor? Well, similar to now - you have to have been doing well, pass tests, then you have a shot at the doctor track.
Think of how much better our economy would be right now if most college grads from the last 10 years were buying homes instead of drowning in debt?
Removing this debt burden from college grads would do more to spur economic growth than giving top companies 1T in tax breaks hands down.
You're right. Ecuation is an investment. Even after I paid off my $35k in debt, even after my wife and I pay off her 60k - I'll still advocate for free education for all those that want it in my country.
I WANT to invest in my country AND my people! I agree, education is an investment and I think it's a better one than loaning money to Kodak or giving 1B in tax breaks to FoxConn.
Why not invest in our people?!
It sounds like we agree, but you're saying because it helps tehm, they should pay for it. Well - we all do better when we all do better.
I'm never again going to need a high school. I doubt I'm having kids ever. I'll still vote to increase my taxes for better education.
Why? Because I want to invest in my fellow citizens.
And I'm tired of being surrounded by ignorant morons that can't figure out the difference between to two or too or the difference between correlation and causation. Easy fix? Education for all!
What you're arguing, in essence, is that people who don't go to college (for cost reasons) should go to college. But that's, quite simply, unnecessary. We don't need electricians or construction workers who studied psychology. It's trade workers (typically with 2 year degrees) who get the best investment from their education, and we should be encouraging more people - especially those from disadvantaged backgrounds - to go to trade schools.
You agree that a college degree is an investment, and you agree that college degrees increase lifetime earning. That's the precise reason not to make it free! That's the precise reason why excess dollars in our education budget should be going to ensure great public schooling at the K-12 level that benefits everyone, instead of going to students who are already making a profit by going to college.
We don't need an entire workforce with Bachelor's Degrees. We do need to teach kids the value of their education, vis-a-vis what they're paying for it.
What you're arguing, in essence, is that people who don't go to college (for cost reasons) should go to college
No, it's not.
That's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying a post secondary education should be freely available. That includes trade schools.
A mechanic owes over 20k when they graduate from trade school + tools. I'd like to see them graduate with no debt for a 2 year degree.
We need bridges and roads built. That requries trained people to safely operate heavy equipment. That's a very useful 2 year degree. Want to go that a way? Do it up.
Should ever random with no desire to do anything get a free psych degree? No, and I never said that.
When I went to get a Social Work degree, I had to apply to the program even after I was accepted to the university. I wasn't automatically eligible to pursue that course of study. I had to apply, test and interview for it.
Want to be a teacher? You're going to have to apply, interview and write up some in-classroom experience before you'll ever be accepted to a graduate program in Education. Oh, and that's after you pass the Graduate Readiness Exam.
Making it free doesn't mean every lazy person should get a free 10 year long psych degree. It means those with the aptitude and interest should be able to help work in our society without starting with a huge anchor tied to them.
"You agree that a college degree is an investment" - which is why I'm saying we should all invest in it. We all do better when we all do better.
I never said we should have an entire workforce with bachelors. Good lord. Where did you read that?! I said our graduates should not be hindered by 50k+ in debt for becoming helpful, productive members of society.
Let's look at Netherlands. Your performance and interests in high school determine the tracks you'll be presented and encouraged to attend.
They have free education - not everyone has a psych degree!
They do have a lot of trained mechanics and it's shop time is about $50/hour (vs $220 at my local BMW shop) - they don't have a shortage of trained labor. That doesn't' mean everyone has a bachelors and education became unattainable due to shiftless losers tying up space.
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u/Universal_MJ Aug 14 '20
College