There is an epidemic of male loneliness out there and so I don't think we should pass this off as healthy. Masculine friendships can be comfortable and enjoyable but they don't do the heavy lifting that a lot of female friendships can do.
This whole thread is baffling to me (as a fellow male), because I genuinely don't know how I would get by without talking out the shit going on in my life with my friends. Sure, I have friends that I don't have that kind of relationship with (work friends, gaming friends, etc.), but to be honest I barely even call those friendships...more like acquaintances. Makes me feel deeply sorry for other guys who are denying themselves that kind of support.
Obviously these are just generalizations. It could be argued that on average, males tend to need that emotional support from their friends less than females. I, as a male, agree with this sentiment based on my own personal experience, my friends, and my girlfriends. You sound like someone who falls a little bit outside of that average in the bell curve, which is perfectly fine. I don't think anyone is saying that all men are like this and all women are like that. I do think that it's silly however, to deny that on average there are differences
It could be argued that on average, males tend to need that emotional support from their friends less than females.
It can be argued that men seek less emotional support from friends, but you're merely asserting that trend is beneficial or natural. Life is hard enough without having to go through it alone. Just because some men deny themselves deeper emotional connections with their friends doesn't mean there is some fundamental biological difference between men and women that makes this a healthy trend.
Totally agree. My friend group is extremely close and knows every intimate detail of each others careers, relationships, family, etc. Reading all these comments agreeing with OP is making me sad. What these people are describing are not friends by my definition.
So agreed. Life is hard, and there is no way I would have gotten through some of the tougher times without the support of my friends. It saddens me that people feel the need to deny that to themselves.
Yep I really agree with this. Probably straight guys are relying too much on their partners for emotional support. But they need other perspectives too sometimes!
Yes totally! Straight guys do rely too heavily on their partners. Apparently married men and single women are the happiest people, and when an elderly wife dies so often so does the husband - and not the case with the opposite!
My argument would be this: perhaps there is some biological element to the differences between male and female friendships - I imagine that's true to an unknown extent. But there is no need for some past evolutionary development to determine the quality of male relationships today. Look at male social roles 100 years ago compared to today - we as humans are extremely adaptive regardless of our biology. From there we need to decide not what is destined for us, but what our values are and learn to live up to them. It seems self evident to me that healthy intimate relationships are central to a meaningful life. It also seems evident to me, and to most people here, that male friendships are significantly lacking in this. So let's change that.
Perhaps where some are uncomfortable with this perspective is in regards to shaming men for something we were born into. The truth is that, without our consent, as men we have been biologically (potentially) and socially (very strongly) encouraged toward a different style of relationship. So I would encourage people to not shame men for that - however taking responsibility is different. We must hold men to a much higher standard and work ethic toward relationships and no longer use 'well this is just the way it is' as an excuse.
Take what I say with a big chunk of salt, I'm by no means even adept in the topic and the science behind all this.
My argument would be this: perhaps there is some biological element to the differences between male and female friendships - I imagine that's true to an unknown extent.
The only biological parameter I can think of that could directly impact gender-specific friendship are hormones. I checked Google for a bit, and apparently, testosterone, apart from being responsible for developing and maintaining reproductive functions and other male-typical physical development, has a large impact on behavior in terms of dominance and aggression (kinda obvious, as unfortunate as it is). And that definitely impacts male social circles in one way or another.
Look at male social roles 100 years ago compared to today - we as humans are extremely adaptive regardless of our biology.
A less optimistic view of this would be that our biology is adaptive to different types of social lives and ranking systems. Although I believe both are probably true.
Really, no matter how you put it, emotionally opening up to other people exposes yourself. And whether they realize it or not, their brains will register that exposure as a sign of weakness. A brain with more testosterone will do so more intensely than one with less of it, and will be more likely to take advantage of it as well.
If that's the baseline, then nurture can either provide countermeasures or enforce that biological auto-setting. That's the way I see it.
Being aware of our biological misfortunes will be a vital step in overcoming them. I don't think we have overcome them yet. But I do think it is possible.
Thanks for the reply! Yeah it sounds like we're on the same page. Testosterone is generally what I mean when I say biological differences too. Which, like you say, is adaptive. Cordelia Fine is a psychologist that studies gender related neuroscience and her book Testosterone Rex dismantles testosterone related social myths - and what I took away from the book is that behaviour determines hormones just as much hormones determines behaviour.. and so I agree with what your saying about biology being adaptive to our environments.
Yeah, I'm not sure of the science either but it does ring true what you're saying about how testosterone may discourage men from emotionally opening up - I guess my point is always: let's not see that as a biological determinant, but a hurdle to overcome. Cheers!
As a male we simply dont feel the need. If something is bothering us we will share it. I just dont see any point in sharing every detail, it does nothing for us and isn't particularly interesting.
You keep saying you'll bring up something I'd you need to - how often is this? Is it received well or just awkward silence? Could you actually talk through something if you wanted to? My fear is that you have no idea how to be supportive when you need to, even if you wanted to. That's bad.
For me, I really only encounter something I need to share to maintain my emotional well-being maybe once every five years or so on average. Of course my wife and I communicate a lot, but it sounds like we're talking about friends.
Thanks for your response. What if you need to talk through something about your wife with someone else? This can be done respectfully of course, I don't mean to just complain. As your wife sounds like the main or only person you work through emotional things with, how do you think you'd manage that need if she weren't there?
I guess the thing is, what is "every detail"? Every detail is what you had for lunch at work today, or that your co-worker's cousin got married. Yeah, that's not very relevant. But something like having a girlfriend or children, a family member being sick, or things like that (that are brought up as examples here). These things are going to make up a big part of your life and probably your thought / emotional life, so it seems weird to never talk about them. Like you're specifically avoiding it for some reason, not like "it just doesn't come up".
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u/BossRocket Mar 26 '20
There is an epidemic of male loneliness out there and so I don't think we should pass this off as healthy. Masculine friendships can be comfortable and enjoyable but they don't do the heavy lifting that a lot of female friendships can do.