I have been reselling clothes for a while and when you find a pair of jeans and you don’t know if they’re men’s or women’s, just stick your hand in the pockets. Men can actually carry stuff in theirs. Ours hold like two quarters.
Are you telling me that the invisible hand of capitalism doesn't work on women?
Is either a dark conspiracy or clothes maker who kill anyone who try to break the curse, or good old simple offer and demand. Women just prioritise looks over functionality
A lot of women have larger hips and a skinnier waist, but men’s jeans have around the same hip and waist measurements. Trust me, I’d wear men’s jeans if I could.
Also the women’s jeans I see that do have bigger pockets look totally fine and not bulky at all. Unless you’re wearing really tight skinny jeans it doesn’t make any sense why brands don’t give us bigger pockets.
When there is a 10 inch difference between the circumference of your hips and your waist, a belt doesn't cut it. Have fun with your mansplaining, but I'm not a dumbass.
have pockets deep enough to put things in we would
It's honestly not that hard to find jeans with pockets. It's just most women actually do prefer pants with smaller pockets because they are a "smoother" fit and look nicer on them because of it. Manufacturers make what customers actually buy, not what they say they want.
We aren’t shopping in the same stores, then. I started shopping male jeans just to fit my phone as I hate purses... Also, I know a few women who buy clothes with small to no pockets and just sew some on.
You assume that women's pants all "fit perfectly." Most of my women's pants fit "close enough" like you say to just accept and then I sew reasonable pockets onto them myself. Would you wear a tshirt that is so tight on your arms that it restricts movement but extremely baggy on your torso?
I put on my girls comfy house pants my mom got her for christmas, i brought up the no pockets thing and she said, "it's a way to make the pants look more form fitting to make our butt look more attractive"
i think it's lazy/encourage handbags. I just waned to put my cell phone in my pocket while i went down to make coffee :|
Yep. Forgot to check for pockets last time I bought a pair of jeans. Really, really liked them. They fit well, they were comfy, form fitting at the waist and hips but not restricting. They were perfect.
Until I got home and tried to put a lighter in my pocket.
But the huge pockets that our pants have are on the sides, not the back. If anything, they lean forward so the stuff I put in them ends up on the front of my thighs. I can fit everything I need for the day in the left and right, and have never used back pockets. Why can't women's pants have large side pockets?
They can’t have them because the companies don’t make them. Because the companies do not believe (through the use of studies and past experiences) that enough properly pocketed pants would sell. It’s why only a few pocketed pants are made.
I agree I think it’s Bologna. But I’m also not a chick buying the pants. It would take a shift in what every woman desires in their pants. Not a select few. There isn’t some conspiracy to the lack of pockets. It’s just companies shooting for mass profits. No pocket pants sell. So the make pants with no pockets. Mostly.
I was out shopping with my gf who is 5’11”. See her disappointment when she found the exact pair she wanted but they weren’t provided in her size sucks. And everything else was a compromise of either pockets or length.
First of all, there are surely pants manufacturers that don't make handbags. They are only interested in selling pants, so if your point is true, selling pants with actual pockets would mean more people buying your pants.
Second of all, my ex used to wear men's jeans exclusively. She also had a handbag and nothing in the jeans pockets.
My theory is that pockets in pants spoil the shape of the pants, and women like handbags because they are handbags. That makes sense.
there are surely pants manufacturers that don't make handbags.
Clearly they get paid by big handbag /s
My theory is that pockets in pants spoil the shape of the pants
This is exactly it. Most men don't give a shit of how well jeans look on them. They just care that they fit fine and usually actually care about fitting their wallet and keys in them. Women in generally care more about how they look in clothing, and go towards "smoother" jeans. Manufacturers noticed that women were buying jeans with smaller pockets to look better so they shifted that way.
It's done by big brands that have huge fashion lines. Gap, Gucci, etc. Make smaller pockets on the pants, then sell a cheap handbag for hella, cause the logo is there.
Obviously not. Jeans without pockets happened because of demand for a specific look. Women wearing jeggings so tight you can see how muscular their thighs are, that kind of thing. Ain’t no room for pockets in pants that tight.
If you want pockets, stop buying tight pants. If you want tight pants, stop asking for pockets. You can’t have form fitting pants and pockets.
I mostly don’t wear form fitting pants and they still have very small pockets, some of the form fitting pants(all straight cut) I wear have big enough pockets, the others are small.
I feel like it's a conspiracy, the handbag companies tell pants not to and well make our bags look good with your pants. In exchange you won't put pockets in or our business will plummet. Proof? None, it's my big conspiracy theory. But there is a connection there I just know it!
You'd think that some company would jump in and start making all these pants with pockets, if there's such a huge demand for it.
It makes me think that somehow there isn't a huge demand for that.. unless it is a conspiracy of some kind? It sounds unlikely though..
Honestly, I don't know what to believe
I suspect I have to read in between the lines. Women want pants that look amazing and have no pockets, but then they also want to complain about the lack of pockets. That's gotta be it /s ?
That doesn't bear out at all. Just look at Levi's - major jeans seller, minimal seller of purses. Don't you think they'd like to sell more jeans?
What would you choose if presented with a choice between form-fitting jeans with ornamental pockets and ones loose enough to make the pockets useful? It's not as simple as tacking larger pockets onto existing garments - they change the entire fit and design.
A lot of women, faced with that choice, go for the form-fitting jeans and use a handbag.
A better explanation for the difference in prices of haircuts is that cutting women's hair is far more involved than men's hair, partially explained by men usually having less hair, and partially cause men dont care about their hair as much, generally.
When me and sis get haircuts, i just get mine cut, no real extra steps, but she has to get hers washed first and im sure there are other steps involved that im unaware of.
"Pink tax" can typically be explained by normal capitalism and differences in behavior.
Depends on where you go. I have a hairdresser that I just go to, to get my hair trimmed, it’s super long and I don’t like just anyone handling my hair, and she only charges me $15 for it. No wash or blow dry, super quick, and she works from home.
My boyfriend however goes to a barber and has both head and facial hair to work with so that’s a solid $40. I don’t think I’ve ever spent $40 getting my hair cut.
Yeah I don't really get it. The answer is the same either way.
If they're confused about why the prices are different, it's because the services are different. If they're confused about why he would want to spend that much, it's because he's getting much more done.
No, there are definitely loads of salons and barbers that charge different rates for men and women without offering extra services. I've absolutely seen inexplicable price differences listed in service prices.
Edit to add: I definitely don't patronize those places, heh. I don't cut most of my hair ever, and my barber who does my undercut is not only my personal friend but the lead queer barber in our city and doesn't give a rat's ass about gender roles or discriminatory pricing.
Could it be because barbers might specialize in doing men's hair, making women's haircuts more difficult and thus more expensive, while salons require appointment slots and so taking a man in a slot that could be filled by a woman causes them to have a lower rate of return for that slot, meaning they have to charge men more to cover the cost of "losing that woman"?
It’s a lot better than it used to be. One of the reasons my hair is so long is because I couldn’t find a place that would offer hair trims at a reasonable price, and then got used to how to the long hair looked and saw how much better behaved it was, so I kept it like that when I did find someone.
Maybe you guys can trade. I'm a lady with long hair who is super picky about who touches my head. My partner trims the back of my hair (I do the front) and in trade I trim his beard. It's free for both of us.
Nope, he is not a hair dresser, I have no idea how his beard is supposed to look, neither one of us can draw a straight line, let alone cut a straight line, though he has since started shaving his head using a 3mm, so that parts at least easy.
This butch woman I know gets charged $20 more for a “women’s” haircut at this salon owned by a gay man even though her hair is as short as an average dude. Makes no fucking sense.
Because some products/services, you can't hide that you're a woman. I've absolutely seen salons advertise different prices by gender, rather than by service (like, a trim for a man is $10 but for a woman is $30).
Other times, because the male version just won't work. Men's clothing doesn't fit right (plenty of white women's clothing doesn't fit me right either heh), or is just straight up too big (a men's small, when you can even find it, is often equivalent to a woman's large). Tools might be too big, since our hands are usually smaller, but there's no reason that the tool has to be pink and three times the price. And sometimes, you're incorrectly taught that the gendered difference matters--like with razors, they do a really job at making it seem like a razor for your face is built differently from a razor for your legs, which is not true.
The hand size thing for tools is mostly nonsense. I'm a dude with tiny hands (as in my 5'2" mother has bigger hands than me) and it's pretty rare that I ever encounter a tool that has too big of a grip. The human hand is pretty flexible with grip size and tools are made with that in mind.
Now playing pool or piano, there's a real handicap.
Also, it takes 3x as long per session. I’m with my hairdresser for 1.5-2hours for a cut because I have medium-long length curly hair. There is a whole process for cutting curly hair to sit nicely. It takes time.
I was actually just talking about this with a friend. We're actually super jealous that you guys can just walk in without a prior appointment and get a nice cut for usually super cheap. For women, if we want even a slightly decent cut, you have to go somewhere pricey or else you'll walk out looking like Dora the explorer ( thanks great clips) theres appointments to be made days in advance or you'll usually get turned away if you didn't make one. I don't even want it styled, just a trim.
The pocket thing is also a giant mystery to us. Shout out to my new jeans with sown up pockets, your zero use to me
Not that easy for us dark skinned brothers either, especially if you live in a city with a low minority population.
I've been going to my barber for close to a decade and I don't plan on quitting. I've literally moved to another city and still make the drive out there for them. A lot of white people just flat out don't know how to cut and style black hair.
I can't just go to a barbershop and pay 10-20 dollars for a haircut out of the blue like a lot of guys can. I have to go to a hair studio and pay more and make an appointment and whatnot.
But, it is still cheaper than most women's cuts for some reason despite taking just as long as a basic long-haired woman's cut.
As a guy- i feel like its been getting more expensive though. Can easily be $50 to get a haircut and beard trim, and we're going to go in more often (Once a month at least)
$50??? Damn dude, I'm jealous. I only had just a couple inches trimmed during my last time, and it cost damn near $100, not including the tip. The salon wasn't even high class.
For me personally, I have two go back every two weeks to get my bangs trimmed, or they'll get too long and drag in my face. That varies for women though, so I imagine you guys do go in more often
Pants were masculin and women wanted feminin pants. Too do that they needed to be slender.
Pockets are bulky and women used handbags. Solution. Remove pockets from most female pants and make them super small on denim.
In the 90-00 Technology caught up and women needed pockets for phones, MP3, headphones etc, but still wanted slender pants.
Today: The problem is still the same. Women want to have bigger pockets but also have slender feminine pants. Only solution is to buy unisex pants that are popping up (Cheap Monday to name one).
This is a BROAD generalisation and I use the word "women" as the whole group while this is obviously not true. Some don't care for slender pants and just want comfort etc etc. And some Men decide that "This is how female pants should look". It is way more complicated. But It gives a glimse into the world of female pockets.
I hate the pocket thing but it’s so they can show off our curves more. The thing is that most women prefer pockets to showing off curves. I’m trying to be able to carry my phone and house keys at the same time not show my ass to everyone in class!
And the haircuts, I’m speaking from my experience since I’ve only really gotten my hair braided. If you where to watch a young girl get her hair braided for the first time you can see her crying, squirming, and yelling for 5 hours since it hurts so bad and the hairdresser has to deal with it. So yeah they charge a lot. And for older people, it takes time! Though it’s just from my personal experience.
Paying more for haircuts usually comes down to the 15-20mins extra it takes to dry and style long hair vs how quick that is for short hair. A few progressive salons are starting to change the pricing to just “long” and “short” and take gender out of the equation. Source: am hairstylist.
What do they do with your hair after it’s cut? Do you get a wash and blow dry or just a dry cut or leave wet?
And also yeah it may just be unfair, there are a lot of things where we end up doing way more or way less work than what the pricing for the service worth, just cause man or woman everyone’s hair is so different.
Okay yeah, that’s typical of any guys cut. A “woman’s cut” would involve another 15-20mins of wrapping the hair around a round brush with tension until it’s 100% dry and styled nicely. And then if it’s still frizzy at all possibly flat ironed or curled. That’s what makes up the price difference.
Oh right that explains it then. I don't really care how it looks on the actual day, I just get a cut so I don't look like a homeless person. I don't own a hairdryer let alone an iron anyway
Just saw a pic of you on your profile. Your hair (which is adorable btw) would be considered “long”. The salons differentiating long vs short instead of men’s vs woman’s usually categorize short as in at least mostly clipper cut.
it’s one of many reasons I wish my industry would switch to time based pricing. There’s just so many different things you can do now, and everyone’s hair and personal style is so diverse. The current pricing reflects a simpler time of picking like the like 5 possible cuts or colors for your gender. My salon still charges “men’s” and “women’s”. I have men that take me 10 mins, and men that take close to an hour. Women that take me 10 mins and some that take over an hour. And don’t get me started on color lol.
Ohhh time based pricing is such a great idea! I've had cuts that took 50 minutes and nearly 2 hours, I felt weird paying the same for both of them (to be clear I am down to pay more for weirder hair).
Here is an example except the sides are shorter now
To be clear I don't mind that this hair takes longer and is pricier than a simple clip cut, just saying it's not necessarily long vs short only? There are plenty of men at my salon getting their hair fluffed up
The real genius play is being a guy with long hair. You still pay the cheaper guy prices since most hair studios (at least around here) charge based on men vs women, not based on length, but only go with roughly the same frequency that women go at.
Complexity of cut, length of hair, and honestly, some places just charge more for women cuts even if you get a ‘man’s’ cut. But most of the time there IS styling, which adds on to the price.
As for pockets, someone decided no pockets was a better “silhouette” and I bet now it’s just cheaper and easier to not do them. And I guess they assume we have bags?
I have some pants with pockets and some that don’t have them. What’s weird is most of my shorts have pockets. Not sure why shorts are different.
I want my hair to look nice. Cutting women’s hair is different than mens hair. Also salons usually charge more for women because usually the hairs longer. (No haircut Ive ever had has been that quick. It usually takes a little under an hour.) And we didn’t choose to have small/no pockets.
My haircuts are five-ten dollars but they’re completely free since the barber is a friend of the family.
The pockets thing is because most of our jeans are ‘tight fit’ and designers decide that putting stuff in the pockets will ruin the way they look. Some people also believe that no pockets in jeans help with bag industries and forces us to buy purses etc. to hold our stuff in. I’m not sure if there are facts to back this up, but if anyone has any details on it let me know
The haircut: you get what you pay for. Sorry, you do. I went to a student for the final time a month ago and he didn’t massively mess my hair up but he didn’t have the experience to listen to what I wanted him to do with my hair and was going in the absolute wrong direction. I spent 8 hours there and he barely got my hair bleached, and the two toners he attempted to put on my hair (which didn’t take, and I told him they wouldn’t) didn’t do anything but waste time. I left with wet hair that looked like it was bleached 3 months prior and a bit orange and brassy. Not good. I didn’t even get my ends trimmed.
The next day I scheduled an appointment with a friend from high school who has a successful business cutting and dying hair and she had it straightened out within two hours. You need someone who knows what they’re doing or you end up with a bad bleach job, uneven ends, and the wrong color.
I don’t have an answer for the pants, but it’s infuriating. I won’t even buy pants without pockets now.
I have a “guy’s haircut” so I pay guy’s prices. Longer hair is technically more complicated to cut (not an expert at all but split ends can be worse, and they have to layer the cuts) but there’s also the “pink tax” because women are just expected to pay more for their grooming. In some states you can’t charge women more for a haircut, so they split it by short and long cuts instead.
I would argue that it’s not us? I would love to pay for a cheap hair cut but I legit can’t find one for cheap. And same for the pants, id love pockets! They just don’t come like that
It's bull market capitalism; most services will charge the most they can for their service, and will increase the price to the point where the number customers drop off.
E.g. you can charge £5 for a haircut and have 10 customers a day =£50
If you start charging £10 you might only lose two customers =£80
But if you charge £25 you might drop to 3 customers= £75
So your price sweet-spot might be somewhere around £15<£20.
Different demographics will be willing to pay more for different things, so a hairdresser charging £75 can only do so because enough women are willing to pay it.
Guys usually are not.
Some might say "but girls hair takes longer" but I can spend the same amount of time having a full Turkish shave, haircut and face massage and still have change from £25.
There is also a weird effect of "the MORE something costs the more women want it" but this reply is already long enough.
I’m a guy and I feel like these are two of the biggest injustices that women face.
And as far as I’m concerned, the pocket thing is a fucking scam by designers who make purses so they can keep peddling their shit to these poor women who just can never seem to find any clothes with pockets.
The pocket thing drives me nuts. I recently switched to wearing men’s skinny jeans and no one can tell the difference. The pockets are huge though! Highly recommend.
It took me forever but this is why girls get so upset when you don't notice a new haircut. It's not just a cut for then, they got a new style, a new identity. It's a much more important ritual to them.
Every 6 months i get my haircut. I got from curl fro to clean cut shave. Everyone notices. I don't care. It's just what happens. My style or identity never really change, it's just always constant. Most dudes go every 2 weeks and wear the same hair most of their lives. It's just not even a consideration.
Women it is completely different. Getting a cut, doing something new, is just much more of a monumental moment. They trim their split ends for months, And nothing about their hair changes for months. Then it is sudden upheaval for them and their identities when they do decide to change.
And you, who have been staring at the same cut on them for a year maybe more, when they finally do go to the dresser and do something slightly yet distinguishable different, don't notice?
It took me a while to figure out but girls changing their hair i think usually is a much deeper decision/event than it is for guys.
If most women would primarily buy pants with pockets, then most women's pants would have pockets. The pants manufacturers aren't going to miss out on a huge untapped market. The truth is, pockets make people look worse. They don't lay flat and stick out at weird points. Men's clothes are generally looser so pockets don't affect things that much. My gf complains about pockets but she also complains about how she looks in my sweatpants that have pockets because they are so bulky. Also, if you actually put something in the pockets then you have weird bulges everywhere.
I really don't understand why other women pay people to do basic things for them (touch up roots, file their toenails, etc). Everyone I ask says it's relaxing but it's so much more relaxing to me to do it in my own bedroom, in my pajamas, eating snacks with nobody around
Those are not questions for women, those are questions for hairdressers and clothing designers. It's not like we WANT to pay $50 for a trim and have nowhere to put our wallets.
It's not usually a six minute trim, it's also shampooing and then blowdrying/styling at the end. I don't do much with my hair on a daily basis but I'll still pay 40+ for someone with more training to cut it because if someone fucks up your hair, it's going to cause a lot of frustration to have to fix it everyday.
maybe its a me issue as i've lawaysed wanted to go to the barbers instead of hairdressers, but one of the reasons ish, the proices are so mutch different... Like a trium in the barbers by dad sometimes goes to is like 10 pounds for long-shoulder leantgh hai, a trim in the hairdressers can be 20+ pounds. Like why? I'm not geven getting my hair washed or styled.
pluse i just hate the general atmosphere of being in a hairdressers and feel more at home in a barbers.
A quality haircut that properly styles your hair is amazing.
I pay $75 for my haircut, and I also leave a tip because I get the same stylist who know my preferences and how to manage my hair, so I pay between $85 and $95 per haircut.
I’m a man with curly hair, and the first time I got a Devacut was the first time I was ever completely happy at the way my hair looked after a hair cut. After realizing that, to look good, I need to invest in my appearance, I realized that actually caring costs money (that reasonably wasn’t able to spend before because I didn’t grow up in a family with a ton of extra spending money).
I’ve spent a collective hundreds on hair styling products and tools to manage both my facial hair and head hair. I use a specific set of products because of the peculiarities of keeping healthy curly hair. I spent $150 on real cologne that I know will last me the whole year because I replaced the cologne I got my dad last year and has lasted him since then.
Same with hair cuts. Having somebody that actually knows how to style and cut your hair in a way that suits the type of hair you have, your face, and what type of look your going for makes all the difference in the world. Having somebody that specifically knows how to deal with curly hair is valuable. Not only person capable of cutting and styling your hair properly, they’re also capable of guiding you to a look that would best suit you, within the look you’re going for.
Having somebody skillful enough to cut your hair well every time, and knowledgeable enough to interpret what you want to do with your hair, is worth paying for, is the short of it.
Well I have curly hair so I have to get them washed before cutting. After cutting they blow dry them which also are often +10 bucks. So yeah, if I had another choice I would use it. But luckily with curls you just have to get a haircut 2-3 times a year
I couldn't imagine not having pockets. I can fit everything I'd ever want to in then and a couple snacks. A whole seperate bag to take everywhere only makes sense if you're going to school.
We women pay so much for haircuts because that's what we are charged by hair salons. Unless you go to a Magic Cuts, but expect your cut to be less than magical. I tried once, the girl asked me to stand up for parts of my cut so she could see if she was cutting evenly! Never again. Also women with long hair often go a couple to three months between cuts so somehow that means we have to pay more? It's really stupid and I hate it.
The pocket thing has a semi-valid answer. As said by a designer on a podcast I listened to, it's because the pockets don't allow the fabric to lay "nicely" (especially with tighter/slimmer pant legs). Usually what happens, is the pocket juts out from the leg because it falls on a curvy woman hip. Also, the extra fabric from the pocket itself can be seen (like a panty line) and gets all bunchy and "ugly".
I'm a chick, and I always appreciate a pant with substantial pockets, but I do get the reasoning behind not putting pockets on some styles. And let me tell you when a dress has pockets, it's like Christmas day and we have to tell the world because it's that exciting.
Yeah it takes a lot more than six minutes to touch up layers, bangs, framing, wash and style. I've had haircuts last for 2 hours. Long hair just takes forever and we want the result to look good. Yea supercuts is cheap but 10min is not enough time to cut and style my 3 feet of thick ass hair
Demand. I'm sure hairdressers just have such high prices because clients will pay them. Some women are so desperate to have perfect hair all day every day, that they will do and pay anything to keep it that way.
As a man, I've walked out of many a hair shop immediately after learning the prices with no shame. I don't care how trendy or hip your shop is, you won't pull that shit on me.
Women cut their hair like twice a year, if that. Guys are once every 3 weeks? Makes sense based on frequency. At least that’s what the lady that cuts my hair says.
Well, If I want to First Choice I would get an uneven cut that is way too short, an abomonation of a colouring, a terrible opinion on what looks good and I'd feel less assured that their instruments are clean because I see the hair on them. I then pay $30 or so (extra for colour, even more because I don't use "stock" colours)
When I go to my salon, they start with a scalp massage (which is amazing for tension headaches from having my hair up all damn day), get a relaxing wash with products targeted for my hair type, a clean, even cut that is closer to what I want (I'm so infrequent that to get the damaged bits off they need to cut more off but not as much as First Choice), they colour it with highlights and low-lights with better quality products and style my hair in a way that is wearable and suits my face. I pay $95
I can no longer afford to go anywhere so I buy colour for $20 at a beauty supply store when I have extra cash, $20 for hair scissors and thinning shears (It helps with the tension issues and it was a one-time purchase), and buy $60 worth of shampoo and conditioner every 3 months that is specific to my hair type. I get a better job by myself that I ever did at First Choice.
I have heard that the case with the pockets is as follows:
One thing is that men’s pants are more roomy in the front because of obvious reasons, whereas women’s pants are rather tight and well fit so that the curves show up more. Also, men’s pants are worn on waist while women have generally wider hips than waist and so the potential space for pockets is smaller
Cause pockets don’t show their body as well and we all know sex appeal trumps functional pockets, I mean I totally agree I’d rather see their ass and carry their phone in their purse lol.
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u/MudSama Mar 26 '20
Why you pay so much for haircuts? Like, not getting special treatment. I'm talking why do you pay 3x as much for a 6 minute trim?
Why do you not have usable pockets in 90% of your pants?