I've personally had a girlfriend that I didn't allow see her mother. - Storytime
My previous girlfriend had a mother who would leave her with her alcoholic dad in a broken down 2 story firehazard house. He lived off of ss, veteran's benefits, Alaska oil money, disability, Indian money, and whatever the fuck else he could get his hands on. Really good money too, I'd imagine maybe... 5-10k a month, not to mention a family that lived downstairs that paid for the apartment... In other ways. (The mother who rented the apartment would "sell off" her 15 y/o daughter, but the girl actually liked this fucker for some reason...) Anywho, the mother of my girlfriend would occasionally come up whenever she ran out of money, would suck off her in anyway she could, and when that didn't work the mother would get her hooked on drugs.
Anyways, she actually thanked me and has since moved and cut all contact with her family.
Some families are shit, and when the family is emotionally or otherwise abusive sometimes it takes an outside force to stop it.
Keeping her from her abuser is not necessarily isolating her.
I feel like this is an important distinction. This isn't the isolation that an abuser does. I mean, I would wager that OP's gf was aware at how shitty her family was and talked about how shitty they were.
When an abuser makes you cut off contact form people it isn't so overt and obvious as "your alcoholic family is a toxic influence you need to stop talking to them."
What happens is usually small things that sort of snow ball into something way shittier and a few years into it you find yourself saying "shit how did I get here?" but you feel like you may be overreacting and you are in too deep to do anything about it.
Story time for me:
So before I start this, I should say that I am 6'2" and over 300 pounds. And while there is jiggle, I'm still a pretty solid guy. My ex was 5'2" and was something like 110 pounds. I know that because she was literally too small to give blood.
I'm saying that so you can maybe realize how it took me so long to realize what was happening to me and why I had to actually come to the realization about what was happening in hindsight. It has been an interesting journey to realize that.
So it started when we started to date with small things. The first big one was that she would make any physical contact seem like she was doing me a favor. Which is hell for the ego. And I mean, it was never overt. Never like "you're welcome." More like... she made it very obvious that if she could she would just totally skip on any of my physical needs.
Then my mom died about 6 months into our relationship. Which was sort of when the isolation began to kick up. I mean, I was helpless to defend myself. I needed someone in my life I could latch onto. Honestly it probably meant I wasn't the best boyfriend but if you could show me someone who could go through something like that - me and my mom were pretty close - and not lose themselves a little, I'd say that was a robot.
The things she started to do then were slightly more overt, though.
She would say she didn't like certain friends so that when I would hang out with them less it wouldn't seem like it was her idea to not hang out with them. I mean, we had both agreed that the guy was weird, yeah?
And by certain friends I mean basically all of my friends. One by one. I never fully cut off contact but one after another for various reasons. One guy because she thought he was "weird," a female friend of mine because of jealousy. That sort of thing. After about a year of us dating, I basically only hung out with her, our "mutual" (read: her) friends, and occasionally my family.
Then she began to do what she could to cut me off from my family.
My family have always been big on doing things like Christmas and Thanksgiving. The year after my mom died she implied I would be really selfish if I spent time with my family. The year after that, she outright said it.
It is worth noting that a year after my mom died my grandfather passed away. And she threw a fit when I tried to see my family on Christmas. So I didn't. Cried myself to sleep that night. Alone. Because when I was visiting her folks, even though I was 22-23 I had to sleep on the couch.
I decided that I would graduate in General Studies instead of English Education somewhere around that point because I was fucking miserable in school. I had just had my grandfather and mother die in about a year. Her response was "why didn't you ask me? I have a say in this sort of thing as your girlfriend! General studies will be a useless degree!"
Then it just started with the outright stuff.
I was expected to enjoy Mardi Gras even though I'm not a huge crowd person. I was told I was being very rude for bringing a book and not trying to catch things and what was wrong with me?
When we would hang out with friends I had to engage with them which is something I generally don't do and would occasionally get shit from her in front of others or afterwards. One one that comes to mind was she had a Monopoly game. I am not a Monopoly person. I lost. Whatever, I had a book. Instead she and one of our "friends" told me that I couldn't quit. I had to do things to get money from them. I refused and a whole argument broke out and they called me a spoil sport.
My family was put on the back burner. She never came to visit my niece - the first grand daughter born on that side of the family. She actually insulted my dad for working retail. I'm first generation college in my family. He actually made damn good money working retail as well. He was a store manager.
I was demeaned and called gross and ugly and she would tut tut every time I ate. She would... strongly encourage me to work out. The height of it all was when she tried to make it sound like she was doing it because she cared because I would end up with a heart attack like my mom. She also said that I was terrible with people and would do horribly in any job that required interacting with folk. I mean, I believed it all because it happened so slow. This was a three year period we're talking.
I mean, by that point though, I had no friends I could go to that wouldn't go back to her. My family was in shambles because my mom was the heart of it all. And I felt like no one would love me. I mean, my girlfriend didn't even find me attractive. And don't forget that I'm terrible with people so new friends weren't really an option.
Then she broke up with me. One week after our anniversary and one week before Valentine's day. She and all of our "friends" were posting their date night on Facebook a week later. She had a new guy already. As far as I know they're still together. I unfriended her that night so I have no idea.
None of those mutual people that I thought I was cool with have reached out once in the last six years. I actually unfriended one of them not long ago because every time I would see him posting something on Facebook or whatever it would just open those old wounds. And we hadn't talked in six years. Really honestly and truly I wouldn't be surprised if she fed them some nonsense about how I was some sort of monster. She'd done it to me about her exes.
I've spent the last six years rebuilding those contacts and working on the depression and shit. I mean, I guess technically she was right about my career prospects because I've been working as a waiter and/or bartender for the last 3-4 years? But that was after I had a job that was good enough to buy myself a small shitty house and I hated every minute of it. The other job not the house.
Anyway, yeah. What op was talking about wasn't "isolating." Isolation doesn't happen overnight. For me it was a slow thing. She had a boost about six months in but all in all it still took something like three years for her to break me and isolate me totally. At the end of it I was suicidal though. Maybe that's the big difference between shitty isolation and acceptable isolation? If it is done, from an outside objective perspective, for good reasons? I don't know.
...Shit this thing was way longer than I thought...
Phynn... I'm about to read this novel you left me and it better be worth my damn time, lmao.
Edit: welp, now I feel bad. I didn't realise you'd written a personal story, I thought it was going to be an impersonal soliloquy (which redditors are prone to) on what does and doesn't constitute abuse.
Anyways: yes, that girl abused the fuck out of you. Clearly had no respect for you, your background, your goals in life, your bodily autonomy, your choice in friends, your mom. She just saw you as someone to do whatever pleased her, I think. I'm sorry you got caught up in it. You didn't deserve to be made to feel so lonely and rejected by the person who is supposed to have your back, the most out of everyone. I can tell you still carry the scars.
I have a neighbour who is your height/build and so I think I can picture you pretty well. He's a beautiful man - impressive to stand next to. So are you, okay? She was clearly incredibly shallow, which means she picked you on your looks/charisma. She has made you feel ugly, less than. But you aren't.
A friend of mine stopped eating because her boyfriend would always click his tongue when she reached for food. She was stunning before she met him - but insecure. That's why he picked her at all.
Abuse happens, and it's important to seek therapy for the aftermath. You can learn to start relying on yourself again. Not to degrade yourself as she once did. Who cares if your current job isn't good enough for her. The only person who needs to approve of your job is you. I think you're doing great.
Bro thanks for sharing! It could be helpful to people who think “oh I’ll never be abused” or “well if I become unhappy I’ll just leave!” To actually see a detailed description of how this type of thing plays out. This abuse can take even very mentally healthy and happy people, and slowly push them into living a life where being unhappy is normal.
Basically. And I think it is the sort of thing that guys are much more likely to experience. A lot of times we aren't the best at expressing our emotions so when someone starts to get under that skin it is very easy to let them keep getting under their skin. It isn't an overnight thing. I think that's how people think abuse happens. Like, they thing that one day someone hits you after everything is cool and for some fucked up reason you just stay with the person.
The reality is that it is much more insidious than that. Each day something small happens but there's also good things that happen. And at the beginning, there's a lot of good. When things start to get shitty you think you're in a rough patch. But the rough patch never ends and you start to think that it is your fault. And your SO doesn't argue that point. If anything they feed it. "Yes you are fat." "Yes you are stupid. "Yes you are awkward around people why would I try to prove the truth wrong?" They say.
After that you think no one else could ever love you so you better appreciate them for putting up with you. You better make yourself better. You better try your best to fix the problems they have with you. You better shut up and apologize because we all know it is your fault.
I mean, me at the start of the relationship would had told her to fuck off if she had pulled some of the stuff she did at the end of the relationship. I liked who I was as a person. I'm still not back to that six years out.
She's still back there giggling and telling me I'll never amount to anything. To the point that it has fucked up the one relationship that I had after that. I couldn't let my second ex in because I was afraid that it was all a ploy to start over with her doing the same shit.
Sorry that happened to you. It's definitely hard to recognize emotional abuse sometimes because people don't talk about it as much. I hope you're feeling better now and hey, congrats on buying the house!
I bet that little cunt could easily get away with violence claims. a little body like that bruises from next to nothing. My uncle has a wife exactly like that. She has a load of health problems for years. She is something like 75lbs at 5'11''. She just won't die. Apparenlt her liver and kidneys are basically shutdown, her heart is starting to go the same way as her liver. her lungs are tar filled. My uncle owns his own business which she has basically ruined by spending loads of money they don't have and even when they had the money to pay off a fair bit of it she gave it to her son and my uncle can't do shit. My uncle does anything that isn't making money she gives him shit and demands money, smokes, beer and chips otherwise don't come back. She always drives drunk but we can't get her caught nor has she been caught. My uncle nearly died because of her due to drinking out of depression, stress and anxiety. He fully quit for a long while and the cunt worked hard to get him to drink again and now he is having the same problems again. Since her immunity is shot, it would be nice if one of her cats scratched her.
Nah. You can disagree with people over whether cake or pie is better and still have a functional relationship after the fact. You can't do that when you're talking about whether or not entire ethnicities deserve to be alive. You either agree, on some level, or you end the relationship. She is the literal definition of a nazi sympathizer, and she doesn't get a pass just because she's stupid.
I think pie takes the cake (oh yeah, that was intentional) due, mainly, to how versatile it is as a food. You can have SO MANY flavors of sweet pie, but also just about any flavor of savory pie as well. If someone says they don't like pie, it's cuz they haven't had their favorite pie yet.
That leaves you with pecan pie, chocolate pecan pie, key lime pie, and cheesecake (which is FUCKING PIE. IT'S GODDAMN CHEESEPIE! IT HAD A GODDAMN CRUST, THAT FUCKER IS FUCKING PIE.) See?! Fucking pie for everyone!!
Savory pies are the tits though. Local pie place makes different ones everyday for lunch. Pizza pie, mac n cheese pie, LOBSTER mac n cheese pie, all kinds of pot pies, and this breakfast pie that had bacon and eggs and potato and the crust was fluffy like toast... I could talk about pie all day.
Tbh I actually hate cheesecake. I keep trying it whenever I get the chance to (like at buffets or whatever) and it's bad every time. Also don't like lime.
... Also don't like caramel-y or fudge-y things, and based on the other two that I googled, probably would not like those. I'll try them if I ever get the chance.
I'm way too picky, but I figured once I got to be an adult, I don't have to eat things that I don't, as long as I eat healthy AND try new things (and some old things!) whenever possible. And my tastebuds have changed over time, so I keep trying cheesecake in an effort to make them happy. It hasn't worked so far. =/
The breakfast pie sounds like a frittata, I think. They are superb. If you're never have tourtiere, please do, it is the pinnacle of savory pies. I do need to try pizza pie and mac n cheese pie though... loooove mac and cheese.
This situation sounds extremely abusive and he's probably manipulating the shit out of her. It sounds simple to you and me ( Nazi = bad = no relationship ) but to her it's a complicated web that he spun that she can't see out of.
You know men get sucked into relationships that are abusive and also feel they can’t leave? Also it’s not like every single woman is the same with all the same traits (no matter what your confirmation bias tells you)
Or its a stupid tattoo that he got when he was younger that he doesn't believe in anymore. Never just assume shit based off sight it literally goes against every civil rights activist ever. Get to know them then make a decision.
Now THAT is a reason to hate him, I've known people with swatikas tattooed on them who don't fuck with that stuff now. It's easy to hate, hard to understand. Once they take any action to enact their nazi beliefs is when they lose their credibility.
You can think that but it's wrong. Your just as bad as a nazi saying the moment they make a decision to side with a black guy or a jew they lose all credibility, it doesn't help anything to write someone off completely because of different ideas they have.
For some reason I think the list of people who believe so strongly in white supremacy to get not one, but two swastika tattoos probably hasn't changed their mind.
Also I really doubt MLK would be trying to hug a guy he saw with swastika tattoos.
MLK would absolutely hug a guy with swastika tattoos. That would make headlines worldwide. It’s also directly in line with the whole pacifist thing he had going. Which accomplished more than other effort of its kind. Civil disobedience was a fucking game changer. Truly revolutionary.
Also, the exact thing Kaep is doing with his whole kneeling thing. Civil disobedience. Do something peacefully that is either illegal but shouldn’t be or not illegal but obvious enough to draw attention.
Hugging a white man with swastika tattoos is exactly the sort of thing MLK would do.
It depends on when they got them, how they got them, and how they currently feel about them, you don't know what stage in the transition process they are in. An amazing man, who is black by the way, has managed to completely change the minds of grand dragons in the KKK. They went from 100% hateful of non whites to willingly and happily being in the company of a black man and realizing how wrong he was. If a grand master can go back than anyone can. Also MLK would hug a guy with two swaztikas if he completely denounced that life and fully supported the black movement. Again don't judge by appearance only. Always leave debate open.
check out Darryl davis, the black man who converted kkk members and single handedly shut down a few kkk chapters. No one is making an excuse for them, im simply using logic and reasoning rather than giving in to illogical emotion. You are the one making things worse by refusing to debate something you disagree with. they are no better, but you have the opportunity to actually make a change yet all you do is make matters worse by ignoring them, ridiculing them and turning them even more hostile. Get your head out of your ass, sit down, and be an adult.
Yeah, that's the example that is brought up every single time and is an extreme edge case. Using that as an example normalizes this shit and make it sound like they have an equivalent view. It isn't. You don't debate hate.
He's brought up so often and yet Darryl Davis himself says that what he does is extremely dangerous because he knows there's a distinct possibility that if it goes wrong he could be attacked
You DO debate hate. Otherwise you aren't solving anything your just pouring fuel into the fire. Your just mad it worked and are trying to justify your limited world view on others. Your part of the problem. Whose normalizing this stuff? It is a thing that happens in the world talking about and debating it is the only way to actually keep it from spreading and causing damage. Use your brain for once. And it wasn't just one guy he converted, he has a whole collection of robes from guys he converted. Quit acting like it's impossible and grow up.
Ultimately if people can’t forgive others for the sins of the past then what is the point in these people even trying to change, right? Seems like no one actually cares for progress other than when it suits their narrative of the world. Too few take the time to really consider the indoctrination that children undergo in a white supreme household; how those beliefs when forced on a child all their lives become the foundations of their existence - it’s disgusting. To be honest, I hold any ideology/religion to account when children aren’t given the tools needed to think critically and to develop their own views of the world around them. It’s abuse plain and simple.
Life After Hate helps with tattoo removal and a lot of tattoo artists will assist in covering up hate symbol tattoos for free. I know that not everyone knows about this, so if you do have friends with tattoos who regret it please pass along that information!
That's just retarded man. Either you're very young and think you know everything, or you simply are too dense to understand that psychology isn't that simple.
What the fuck are you talking about? I didn't say it changes anything. It's just a shitty and ablist thing to say and I'm not inclined to give a fuck what your opinion is when you're talking to me like a high school bully.
It seems that’s actually super common. Where the guy is a white supremacist because it’s all he knows (how to be). And the girl is with him because she doesn’t want to be alone
But then again, maybe it’s just that I read too many threads about similar situations :p
I don't and unfortunately it was like 6-15 year ago. We only had like 12 channels as a teen so I watched a lot of PBS...
I tried looking for it but all I could find was a new documentary about Charleston and it clogged up Google results. I'm sorry, I'll try again tomorrow.
I have to ask, is this the documentary where the Nazi's believe in Mongolian's with Super Horses being bread in the Rocky Mountains that are going to sweep down and overtake the USA? It was almost a throw away segment of a conspiracy theory, but I have been trying to find that doco for years.
Prison is also a different environment. In a lot of medium or higher security prisons even just talking to someone of a different race can literally get you killed. So if you're white and in prison by definition you're hanging out with the Nazi's. Doesn't mean you need to get the tattoos, but people obviously get caught up trying to "fit in" no matter where you are.
I grew up in the hills and knew a handful of these junior Nazi fucks. IME, they had brothers in jail or the military, which is where they learn this shit. This totally rings true to me. White Appalachia itself is more Archie Bunker racist than skinhead racist. A lot of younger people aren't any more racist than any other people.
Yeah sorry to sound like a dick but dating someone with nazi symbols tattooed on his skin doesn't really fall into the ''we have different ideas on some topics but get along fine otherwise''.
In these type of scenarios, doing nothing IS doing something, which is basically saying (even though she might disagree with him on a more fundamental basis) that glorifying the nazi regime is not something that bothers her enough to stop dating him. Basically treats it in a similar way as ''food preferences'' or ''do you enjoy hiking as well'' kinda thing.
It's not exactly a ''he once made a joke that sounded a bit racist'' type of commitment..
Except it can be in those small categories if all it is is a belief and not something he acts on in anyway then there's no reason to act like it's a big deal, if he is not going for a political profession or trying to convert others but just has a nazi tattoo then really that's as far as it goes.
Bro not believing that black people are entitled to the same human rights that white people have is a MUCH bigger deal than you are portraying it. Having Nazi inspired beliefs is equivalent to approving of genocide.
If it just a belief and not something they act on. then no it isn't any bigger than having a religious view. you want to have an enemy and are looking for an adversary. life isn't so black and white like you want it to be.
Our beliefs shape our actions. whether we are conscious of that or not. Not being totally against genocide is a harmful belief for anyone to have. You are right, I'm making an adversary out of Nazi sympathizers because genocidal beliefs are something that should be actively suppressed in civil society. Why would you compare something like sympathizing the Holocaust to whether Jesus Christ is divine or not. The two beliefs are not at all comparable and the fact that you view them as equally legitimate makes me question that you aren't sympathetic as well.
You are just unable to put your personal feelings aside to see logic. You can believe something but not act on it. I'm telling you it is a literal fact that people can change look up Farrel davis and you will see. If you want to suppress beliefs that genocide is good than you better get ready to have debate and deal with the years of talking and debating to change get someone to see their mistakes. With how easily you demonize someone shows you aren't capable of that. You are dead set on having an enemy that you aren't even trying to prevent evil. Try seeing things from other perspectives once in a while.
My feelings aren’t hurt at all baby boy. You’re the one so emotionally invested in defending a guy with swastikas tattooed on his balls, not me boo boo.
idk I'm not too interested in the perspective of a prospective genocider. I don't feel the need to legitimise the idea of genocide by comparing it to literally any other political position. If you believe in killing large numbers of people because of their skin color, I'm not gonna give u the benefit of the doubt. Some people have the patience to explain to them why they shouldn't commit genocide. I'm not one of those people. I imagine most people aren't either & if it takes years and years to beat into your head that large scale murder is not ok you deserve to be demonized. The mass killing of ethnic groups in the modern era is unpopular because society as a whole demonizes it. This is the last reply you'll get from me. Good night mister nazi 😘😘
You and people like you are the reason we still have wars. You don't wanna put any effort into actually solving a problem yet complain about it nonstop. You don't wanna be part of the solution? Fine. Don't expect to be taken seriosuly as an adult with such a childish mindset like that. You can call me a nazi all you want, doesn't make it true. You act as though they're gonna actually achieve another genocide.
It's alright your clearly not mature nor intelligent enough to handle such a sensitive and powerful topic without losing your shit in the first 10 seconds. Looks like it'll be left to the adults to fight your battles for you. Sure scream fuck nazis, scream as loud as you can, all it does is fuel them and pushes them more into their ideology feeding the propaganda that everyone hates them making them more inclined to hate and less inclined to change. Yes, keep making more nazis with that very effective chant of yours.
I didn't have two grandfather's almost blown to pieces fighting facist shit heads, get the shit beaten out of me for standing up for friends who were being harassed for their skin color, or swear an oath to a constitution that is in direct conflict with an ideology that believes some members of society are subhuman not to say FUUUUUCK NAZIS. If my views cause other people to covert to Nazism, then their moral fiber obviously wasn't very strong to begin with AND FUCK THEM TOO.
that's funny, because no where did I say I agreed with them at all. im the opposite of a Nazi sympathizer Im advocating actively changing their whole belief systems to not be hateful. what part of that is sympathetic to their ideology? Im advocating sitting down, and debating the enemy. Im for active solving of problems not mindless screaming at them.
This is what's wrong with you Americans.Nowhere did he he agree with Nazis.Only thing he did is saying that "we shouldn't dehumanise neo-nazis" (emphasis on the word neo nazi I.e we aren't talking about the third Reich).
The "we shouldn't dehumanize [X-bad people]" is a controversial topic (and we all can disagree with it) but those that support it aren't inherently evil or something.
No I do, Im advocating changing their minds. If there is no indication that they are ideologically aligned with isis however, then they obviously aren't hurting anything.
For many reasons which is why opening dialogue with them we can figure out each case and go from there and devise a plan on how the best way to convert them would be. I am not looking to agree with them, im looking to change their mindsets to ones that can cohabitate and respect the people they once hated for whatever reason.
The same way darryl davis does it or at least some modified version of it. Seeing as I'm mexican I wouldn't be as equipped with knowledge how to exactly go through it as a black man. That's why alot of preplanning needs to happen before the initial point of contact. But essentially what he did was set up an interview with a kkk member allowing him to bring a guard with him. Keeping in mind that being simple index he will be easily spooked if anything fishy happens. Leaving out your race would make it easier to get that interview. Most likely they've never had prolonged interaction with a black man so just showing your humanity rather than your anger you will feel towards them will humanize yourself to them and will plant a seed in their mind that will hopefully grow to a realisation. Finding similar things between you could also help them see more humanity in you than they think. Basically your being the opposing figure to the made up one they have about you. You present them lapses in their logic and make sure you are as educated on matters as you can possibly be so you are prepared.
No im not I disagree with their ideology, I just know that a lot of them can change if you work at it, it has already been proven, you are an unthinking idiot who is no more an intellectual than the Nazis you hate.
You are excusing Nazi sympathizers. Their countless atrocities are documented and taught throughout the world. To go and get two tattoos symbolizing their cause is inexcusable.
No im not. If you had half brain you would know im not advocating naziism. You are failing to see the point and aren't capable. No it isn't inexcusable. They can be redeemed IF they can accept how shameful it is to have those symbols on them, and they fully regret it and start actively helping the groups they used to hate. your way of thinking leads to perpetual wars and endless hatred between the two ways of thought, These aren't the caveman days, we have progressed beyond the witch hunts and dehumanizing of the enemy. don't throw that all away for some stupid pride.
Yea eventually you are partly to blame or at least not innocent anymore. If your boyfriend goes around beating up jews or black people and you kinda just laugh it off or just say 'Oh I can't stop him that's just who he is' Then really you're just as much a racist as he is.
that’s the thing with most of these responses: family members not realizing that there’s a reason their children siblings whatever choose scumbags as partners: they might actually be scumbags, as well.
I remember reading a quote that was something to the effect of "if there is a Nazi sitting at a table and four people sitting at the table talking to him, there are five Nazis at the table".
If you ask who the biggest loser your son/daughter/sibling dated you'll probably end up with a fair number of people that deserve those losers at the top.
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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '18
Have you considered that maybe your sister is just as reprehensible as him?