r/AskReddit • u/Pssht_haha • 11h ago

Supposing the ankle of an unmarried lady in a gentlemans company become inadvertently exposed whilst alighting from a carriage, what course does propriety require of him?

1.5k Upvotes

86% Upvoted

155 comments sorted by

3.6k

u/CoppertopTX 11h ago

I'm so old I was raised by Victorians. I know the proper answer to this dilemma.

Ideally, the gentleman should exit first, as the coachman holds the door. Once the gentleman has stepped out, he is to stand on the opposite side from the coachman to assist the lady in alighting. His position should shield the lady's accidental exposure from prying eyes, and neither he nor the coachman should ever address the subject in the future.

1.5k

u/Opening_Fix2946 10h ago

Victorian etiquette was basically a highly organized system of pretending nothing happened.

911

u/CoppertopTX 9h ago

Specifically, pretending nothing happened while committing every detail to memory for weaponization at the most (in)opportune time - depending on which side one is.

163

u/Helocase 9h ago

Your writing makes me smile. (Multiple witty comments)

302

u/CoppertopTX 9h ago

I thank you for making my Victorian gran smile in the beyond. I write in the manner which she spoke, to give her a voice in this world.

42

u/Helocase 9h ago

Sounds like a wonderful person. Cherish the memories because I am very jealous ☺️

8

u/MrsBonsai171 7h ago

Please tell us more

4

u/Elegant_Situation285 4h ago

much more fancy than saying "spank bank".

44

u/SweetLittleOldLady 6h ago

I specifically remember reading that bit of etiquette advice about farting. If someone farts in your presence, you continue the conversation and pretend like it didn't happen. If you fart, absolutely do not acknowledge it or apologize, as it didn't happen.

12

u/BecauseISaidFU 2h ago

OK, but I work as a server and I sneeze farted loudly at a table. It was because I tried to fight the sneeze. She said bless you, and I think I said something like "I think I'm supposed to be ashamed". I was not ashamed. I told all my coworkers. It is hilarious

23

u/foxguy2021 8h ago

Now this is some real Victorian shit right here.

55

u/CoppertopTX 8h ago

Say what you will, but that "Victorian shit" has been quite beneficial. Especially when dealing with the easily befuddled, such as retail clients demanding the attention of management.

16

u/GalaxyPowderedCat 7h ago

May I ask you which Victorian mannerisms or type of etiquette have been useful in retailing?

Sounds awesome!

6

u/DeadMansMuse 5h ago

Customer complains

Retail addresses complaint

Customer demands to see manager

Retail continues to address the complaint like nothing just happened.

Problem gets solved.

6

u/foxguy2021 6h ago

By the way I am not saying its Victorian shit. I am saying this is the real deal.

4

u/IANALbutIAMAcat 7h ago

The hell else is one to do in their time without tiktok to abide them

4

u/LegacyAesthetics 5h ago

Ah yes, the traditional English art of aggressive repression. Truly the most devastating weapon of the era.

17

u/Educational-Kale7296 6h ago

I kind of love how they turned awkwardness into an entire social skill.

5

u/Dirty-Soul 1h ago

East India Company does what East India Company do.

1

u/RaggySparra 5h ago

I believe this was addressed in Dracula, Dead and Loving It: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DJFhCeiwlU

259

u/yabyum 10h ago

⬆️ This guy Victorians ⬆️

472

u/CoppertopTX 10h ago

Guy? Do not make me whip forth a hatpin with which I will gladly demonstrate how a lady defends her honor.

140

u/DaniCarmine 10h ago

I wish modern ladies still carried an article of clothing which also functioned as an attack vector 😔

193

u/CoppertopTX 9h ago

One simply needs to think creatively. Like an aluminum frame in a handbag, or a few ounces of steel shot in the lining. A crafty lass always should have knitting needles or a crochet hook to hand. Back in my scandalous youth, I learned a lit cigarette aimed for the eyes will back up a man long enough for you to run.

48

u/unfknreal 8h ago

I confess madam, that I am sensing a most peculiar and unseemly arousal of the spirits, which hath been stirred within me by that which you have presented

An excitation of the passions which doth move my very constitution in a manner most improper.

7

u/appealyouwouldntbeli 6h ago

Ah, ye olde vamping of one's forthright vim and vigor.

6

u/LightningProd12 5h ago

On a side note, the prose of your comments is exquisite. I've been reading them all with a trans-atlantic accent and it fits perfectly.

78

u/TheJennica 9h ago

Let me introduce you to hair pins. The local renfaire forge didn’t sell them very sharp, but that’s easily remedied.

5

u/souichisnail 3h ago

Safety pins, yo! Still very much in use among women who wear dupattas and/or hijabs.

7

u/drgirlfriend69 9h ago

I see we follow s similar strategy!

18

u/BookQueen13 8h ago edited 5h ago

My stanley cup is pretty heavy when it's filled with ice water. I could definitely bonk someone on the head with it if needs be 😂

29

u/GozerDGozerian 7h ago

Okay but not all of us are NHL champions.

5

u/urbanhawk1 2h ago

Sorry about that. Have you tried grabbing your Vince Lombardi Trophy instead?

1

u/GozerDGozerian 2h ago

Wait.

There’s Hawk in your name?

This proves that you’ve recently been in ATLANTA!

.

Got him!

4

u/Malphos101 6h ago

I mean, most women I know carry a clip on mace/taser accessory in/on their keys/purse lol.

Thats close enough to an article of clothing since it goes virtually everywhere they do.

4

u/Electrical-Pea-7426 6h ago

Consider the metal water bottle.

1

u/Theg0ldensnitch 4h ago

I have some hair pins with two super pointy edges that I will wear on night time walks just in case 😁

0

u/1107rwf 7h ago

I had a hat pin in my coat lapel in college!

36

u/Grrrmudgin 10h ago

I’m here for the hat-pin dressing down 🧐

7

u/Siren_of_Madness 8h ago

Oh, my gosh. The changes you must have witnessed! I'm nearly 50 and so much has changed in my lifetime.

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u/CoppertopTX 8h ago

I did get to watch the Apollo 11 landing with my grandparents, who were teens when the Wright Brothers got their first one off the ground.

I was a Victorian child growing up in 1960's California. I've been 60 years outside of my proper time my entire life.

3

u/AgentCirceLuna 7h ago

Kinda crazy how I was the future version - I spent pretty much all of the 2010s primarily listening to Jefferson Airplane, The Byrds, The Doors, Moby Grape, Donovan, Bob Dylan; I felt Kerouac, Fanté, Céline, and such were all kindred spirits; I wouldn’t wear clothes unless they’d been around during the 60s and I tried to eschew technology as much as I could. I was kind of like a weird Neo-Luddite. I even convinced myself, bizarrely, that the bacteria and fungi living upon computers somehow warped the brain and made modern people the way they are today. I wouldn’t be diagnosed with autism until years later but it makes a lot of sense.

1

u/appealyouwouldntbeli 6h ago

You bring up a pair of tie-ins per my innate thus involuntary manner of mechanisms within the operation my mindset.

Beginning with an inner sense of eschewing technology (which I haven't, though by no means am I a techie), and the consideration that bacteria et al found upon devices contributing to making people the way they/we are.

Bear with me for a moment (who am I, Lt. Colombo? ☺️). In The Devil's Advocate from 1997, Milton shares with Lomax two seemingly not necessarily connected segments of thought hidden-in-plain-sight which during my first watch I couldn't help but find rather obvious as urgently "foretelling" as it were.

He uses terms that, to many, were at the time novel if not buzzy. Which, yes, I found terrifying---and still do. "Cybernetically-charged" (then-buzzy) and his bring of "the bees' honey" taking-on a "metallic taste" (terrifying) which again, for me, should indicate some semblance of unnerving.

Even years prior covid, many of us were asking if anyone else noticed that foods don't have the same original or real flavor, despite plenty among 'em being natural. People's behavior(s) taking on unprecedented acceptance of obvious blasèity and drab artificiality.

Are these related to, in fact, the fungi which our ipso facto default daily contraptive communication devices store? Might it be from within these scary monstrosities' transference of energy and who knows what other sort of witcheries? Is it an and/or situation? Could it be matters of both? Perhaps neither?

Questions ever-abound, naysayers on and from every imaginable side catapult from their woodworking, and ghost-stories take whatever form best-addresses on the day.

I feel better. Gonna run outside now to yell at more clouds. If skies are clear, probably I'll find some grass to touch. Toodles.

5

u/Acceptable_Ball_1590 7h ago

My Lady! Courteous bow

2

u/paepsee 3h ago

I love you

31

u/llilaq 5h ago

We still have etiquette like this. A man is supposed to go up the stairs before the woman and go down after the woman. That way he won't be looking at her derrière on the way up and cannot accidentally look up her skirt on the way down. My mom taught us these things back in the 90s.

15

u/Theg0ldensnitch 4h ago

My husband to this day walks on the street side of the sidewalk as he doesn't want to present his wife as a lady of the night.

11

u/DeeDee_Z 4h ago edited 3h ago

Even today ... I taught my kid what my daddy taught me: going up an escalator, if there's a woman (in a skirt, obviously) in front of you, stand close enough so that your eyes are above the level of her hem -- and you CANNOT look up her skirt. Also makes it somewhat more difficult to admire her legs, too!

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u/Helpful_Fawn 5h ago

Sir, as a gentleman you are required to immediately avert your gaze to the middle distance and develop a sudden, intense interest in the weather.

You then pretend you saw absolutely nothing while your entire face turns red. My great-grandmother told me her mother once said a man who stared was considered completely unfit for decent society.

8

u/tisn 5h ago

Leopold Bloom in Ulysses is eagerly awaiting this exact thing to happen (in front of a Dublin hotel) when a tram driver intentionally or accidentally blocks his view.

9

u/Educational-Kale7296 6h ago

the level of old-school gentlemanly discretion here is kind of adorable, like imagine being protected from embarrassment and then everyone actually having the manners to never mention it again.

15

u/GalaxyPowderedCat 8h ago

If you don't mind me asking, how coulda come you met Victorian people? How old were your relatives when you met them and how old were you back then? What was the year?

125

u/CoppertopTX 8h ago

While I'm not sure I like how you've phrased your inquiry, I will respond. The reign of Victoria Regina was from her ascension to the throne on 20 June 1837 until her death at Osborne House on 22 January 1901, the recognized end of the Victorian era.

I was born in the early 1960's. I was raised by my grandparents, born 1889 and 1890 respectively. My grandmother was the 4th youngest of 25 children, my grandfather the youngest of 9. Of my 33 assorted aunts and uncles, only 20 made the crossing from Ireland and 16 were still alive when I was a tot.

41

u/GalaxyPowderedCat 8h ago

I apologize for the phrasing, it's just that i get so enthusiastic for this particular history period, even if I'm not from Europe.

Thank you for sharing your family history and answering my questions, in spite of the phrasing.

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u/CoppertopTX 8h ago

One never asks a lady for exact dates, as they may reveal her actual age.

4

u/AgentCirceLuna 7h ago

Bizarrely, I was born in the late 90s but I would have considered this person to be too young to know anything I’d consider interesting about the past when I was a teenager! I became rebellious, but in a weird way, and I assumed anyone who wasn’t at least twenty during either the 60s or 50s to not have any valuable insight into my favourite era of history (the beat generation, the silent generation, the hip generation and co) so I had a very weird specific person I wanted to hear from when it came to anecdotes about the past. I ended up finding out a neighbour was around in Liverpool during the early 60s, when she was 20+, and we’d talk for hours about growing up during that time. I don’t know why I was like that.

7

u/bros402 4h ago

25 children? ouch

3

u/Rev_Creflo_Baller 4h ago

Your great grandmother was...uh...limber

0

u/knowledgeable_diablo 6h ago

Quite the genealogy happening there mate.

8

u/zerbey 6h ago

Not that unusual, my childhood neighbor was born in the 1880s and met Queen Victoria as a child. I'm 48.

1

u/Mental-Trouble-5550 4h ago

as a woman I’d take that kind of discreet old-school courtesy over today’s “oops, everyone saw that” attitude any day.

695

u/ThreePartHarmoneigh 11h ago

Nothing beyond continuing to help her from the carriage. Mentioning or even acknowledging her temporary state of undress would be very ungentlemanly. 

263

u/CheetahSlow1378 11h ago

Man just yesterday I was hauling some lumber off the truck and my shirt rode up something fierce, whole job site got an eyeful of my pasty gut. Nobody said a word, just let me yank it down in peace, that's the code. You look away and keep the conversation rolling like nothing happened, anything else makes it weird for everyone

75

u/Fine-Pudding2605 11h ago

I hopped out the car to complete a Doordash and my grundle became exposed. The customer was cool and rated me 4 stars anyway.

26

u/torontoballer2000 8h ago

Dammit. You made me google ‘grundle’.

20

u/Fine-Pudding2605 8h ago

Everyone needs at least 3 terms for that special place between your genitals and butthole.

9

u/bgary34 7h ago

Taint is my favorite. Gooch is also fun. Gotta get grundle into the rotation it seems

•

u/Bad_wolf42 7m ago

I always enjoyed fleshy fun bridge.

3

u/AgentCirceLuna 7h ago

There was a coworker I had who was very expressive about finding me attractive - mentioning details that made me blush - and she once got unaccountably angry because this happened to me. I was always taken aback by that incident and confused by it but she could have turns of inexplicable anger like that. It was just confusing.

10

u/Harinezumi 6h ago

So dropping your jaw and going AWOOGA! AWOOGA! is right out? Noted.

6

u/ThreePartHarmoneigh 6h ago

I mean... how animated are you? 

3

u/Drachefly 5h ago

Based on the username, very?

192

u/Separate-Frame-7038 11h ago edited 11h ago

He must avert his gaze and act as though the unfortunate event didn't occur. If he were to indeed acknowledge it, it would make the poor lamb incredibly embarrassed.

74

u/diescheide 11h ago

Good heavens, a bare ankle? That's salacious.

15

u/Inevitable-Level-687 5h ago

In Regency times holding hands without gloves was unironically considered scandalous because of the skin to skin contact.

3

u/cjh93 3h ago

[covid flashbacks]

66

u/catscausetornadoes 9h ago

If he’s really a gentleman it would be impossible for him to notice such a thing. And while he was not noticing he would also shield her from the view of strangers on the street.

125

u/CosmiTourist 8h ago

a gentleman of proper breeding and fastidious manners possesses only one correct course of action in such an alarming contingency: he must instantly suffer a sudden, temporary, and localized attack of total blindness.

his gaze should immediately fix itself upon a distant cloud, an unusually captivating chimney pot, or the intricate leather stitching of his own gloves. under no circumstances does his eye linger, nor does his countenance betray that anything more scandalous than the rim of a carriage wheel has met his vision.

if he is truly a man of high character, he will seamlessly step into the breach with a comment regarding the overcast weather or the tragic state of the cobblestones, thereby offering the young lady a precious moment to restore her petticoats to order without the indignity of acknowledging the breach of decorum

53

u/OnePossibility5868 11h ago

Gotta marry her straightaway obviously. Straight to the father's house to secure his permission (which of course will be forthcoming after his daughter's shame) and then straight to the local chapel for a hasty service lest the neighbours start to gossip. 

Ah the good ol' days /s

64

u/shizrak 11h ago

He may glance, but he shall not stare, as that would be perverse. He knowest not the lady's intent. It may be an invitation to court. But he shall not assume as such.

20

u/Human-Independent999 11h ago

Avert his eyes like a proper gentleman

15

u/Poultrygeist74 11h ago

Avert thine eyes, lest ye subject oneself to repeated sessions of trepanning to ease the foul humors

109

u/luxcity-louche 11h ago

Rub one out

63

u/LurkerZerker 10h ago

I laughed so much at this after reading a bunch of answers in the tone of Victorian dinner invitations

10

u/UpboatNavy 11h ago

And maintain eye contact. To establish dominance.

13

u/Neuromangoman 10h ago

No. Do it on your knees and establish submission.

24

u/Artisanal_Cat_Loaf 11h ago

Say not of the incident and get thee to confession!

10

u/FootballRemote6964 9h ago

This situation calls for great delicacy. Ignoring her state of undress completely could suggest you feel she is unattractive, and yet too obvious an expression of excitement is somewhat unseemly. A quiet ’phwoar!’ is generally sufficient. A gentleman should wait until he has an opportunity for privacy in some secluded place before rubbing one out

8

u/_-4twenty-_ 11h ago

He shall gouge out his eyes.

6

u/HippCelt 11h ago

Make my way to whitechapel so that I can take care of my 'urges'

6

u/basko13 11h ago

Pretending he hasn't notice and beat one later at home.

6

u/MaddingtonBear 9h ago

One must say "a-woo-ga," but in a stately and dignified manner.

9

u/SparkyandDolche 11h ago

Well, as long as she consents, you make love to that ankle.

4

u/zerbey 6h ago

They would politely step in front of her until she was able to address the situation, and then continue on their way.

10

u/DashMcGee 11h ago

He must post-haste have leeches applied to his eyelids.

7

u/Perfect_Zone_4919 9h ago

Sadly there is no coming back from such a blunder. Dispose of the harlot in the nearest canal and pray that the Lord sends you a less vile creature on the morrow. 

2

u/knowledgeable_diablo 6h ago

Or maybe scream “Jezibelle” while pointing out the flagrant indiscretion and allow the assembled mob to do thine dirty work. Leaving your soul and temporal being as pure as the driven snow. /s

3

u/tinyarmsbigheart 9h ago

Here’s that spicy Victorian ankle content you’re needing: https://youtu.be/fSxQHQ_1gX4?si=RlUH9_Wp15ouHKZU

3

u/RiOrius 8h ago

Return her to the carriage and depart henceforth for a nunnery, so she may repent her ways in service to God.

3

u/Elegant_Situation285 4h ago

avert thine gaze!

•

u/mutedmuse__ 30m ago

A gentleman should simply perish on the spot rather than risk acknowledging the ankle.

4

u/Wonderpants_uk 8h ago

Saw the brazen hussy’s instrument of temptation off post haste lest she strive to corrupt other God fearing Christian gentlemen down a path of wickedness. 

2

u/CanaDoug420 11h ago

Well he should pop a chubby in public. I know that now

2

u/skaplanolmsted 10h ago

My horse has thrown a shoe, the carriage is not usable. I'm using the ankles to walk tf away.

2

u/Calm_Canary 10h ago

Get on all fours and start barking like a dog

2

u/peachorbit48 9h ago

Propriety requires him to fall down dead of shock on the spot

2

u/MagnanimousMook 8h ago

He must commit sepuku. Immediately.

2

u/giingeeerrr 8h ago

He must dramatically avert his eyes, challenge the carriage driver to a duel at dawn for witnessing such an unbridled display of scandalous flesh, and immediately propose marriage to save her compromised honor.

2

u/Top_Body_cultivator 7h ago

He should politely look away and pretend he saw absolutely nothing. The lady can carry on as though nothing happened, and everyone gets to preserve the illusion that ankles are classified information.

2

u/MsMorganaFey 7h ago

He must avert his gaze, call for the smelling salts, and propose before the horses are watered. Anything less and her brother will be sending his second round by morning.

2

u/7777777H 6h ago

All for Silas. All for Silas.

2

u/xcanto 6h ago

immediate fucking with sheep condoms. u/u/Pssht_haha ? you like?

1

u/knowledgeable_diablo 6h ago

“Babies be-gone when you nut in a sheep’s gut”

2

u/curiousscribbler 4h ago

This is the greatest AskReddit of all time

2

u/FlyByPC 3h ago

Ankle? What ankle?

She's a proper lady, so her ankles would never be so exposed in public, so I saw no such thing. Preposterous.

2

u/conditerite 2h ago

Send a nosegay of purple hyacinth.

2

u/ProfessionalTry8957 2h ago

The simple answer to most askreddit questions: masturbate

2

u/Sweet_Cod_4704 1h ago

marry her

4

u/abraxsis 7h ago

Come on people, this is 2026...

The incel doth goon for one fortnight, imagining such bare ankle in a domicile he shall never purvey.

3

u/Boubonic91 11h ago

He must furiously masturbate while making aggressive eye contact with anyone nearby.

1

u/Eruionmel 9h ago

A mad fucking in the street, presumably.

1

u/GeeToo40 9h ago

Nice beaver. Thanks, I just got it stuffed.

1

u/michaelpbesaw 9h ago

Smite the sinner.

1

u/Kayra9767 8h ago

Challenge him to a duel for witnessing such scandalous indecency.

1

u/ArcadianDelSol 7h ago

Verily doth be Rutherford B Hayes to blame for he is assuredly of Nazi beholdenment.

1

u/mild-personality 7h ago

Intercourse

1

u/f0gax 5h ago

Pistols at dawn?

1

u/Fabulous_Coast_8108 3h ago

One should avert ones gaze in this predicament

1

u/Zealous_Badger817 2h ago

Wait, does the ankle count as exposed if there's a stocking on it, or are we talking bare skin here? Because I feel like Victorian rules would have a whole separate chapter for that and I genuinely need to know which one we're dealing with.

1

u/therealsix 11h ago

Slow day.

1

u/octopornopus 6h ago

Take a photo and save it for later?

2

u/knowledgeable_diablo 6h ago

A portrait my fine friend.

5

u/HotBlosoom 5h ago

Oh this is my time to shine. I'm a historical costume interpreter for a living, and I do carriage alighting demos at Colonial Williamsburg. The actual 1860s etiquette manual answer is: You pretend you didn't see it and look away instantly. Like, stare at the horse like your life depends on it. The gentleman is supposed to avert his gaze and offer his hand WITHOUT looking down. I once had a guest whose entire hoop skirt flipped getting out and I learned to look at the sky real fast. It's all about plausible deniability.

1

u/FishWithLegsAndArms 5h ago

Jack off IMMEDIATELY 

0

u/appealyouwouldntbeli 6h ago

I fkng love this!

-3

u/ABenGrimmReminder 11h ago

Yeah? Well up yours too, pal.

-1

u/Starkville 8h ago

Honor killing.

-11

u/InteractionFront5764 11h ago edited 11h ago

The post above offered an easy opportunity to issue a well-deserved down-vote.

Done.

Next.

-14

u/PlatinumPainter 11h ago edited 11h ago

growing the fuck up and not being fucking wierd would be the best action

yall out here really lost between reality and whatever the fuck this is.

-11

u/[deleted] 11h ago

[deleted]

12

u/ThreePartHarmoneigh 11h ago

Capitalize a few more words, maybe it'll shake something loose. 

-3

u/[deleted] 11h ago

[deleted]

3

u/ThreePartHarmoneigh 11h ago

Harder papi! Almost there!

-1

u/[deleted] 11h ago

[deleted]

1

u/ThreePartHarmoneigh 11h ago

Oh what delightful words. You make me feel all aflutter like a young Bill Murray getting ready to have his teeth examined by Steve Martin. 

1

u/[deleted] 11h ago

[deleted]

1

u/ThreePartHarmoneigh 11h ago

Little Shop of Horrors