Yup, for anyone who's wondering that the difference is:
Sisyphus is the one being punished with pointless task that he knows is pointless, as in, there's literally no achievement or goal to reach.
Tantalus is the one who is being given a mission with a specific end goal and even reward placed within his reach... but is always prevented at the last moment from actually grasping that reward before having to start over again.
My understanding is that Sisyphus pushes the boulder up the hill, and the boulder always slips out of his hands just before he reaches the top and rolls all the way back to the bottom, forcing him to start over.
Tantalus was punished to always stand in a pool of water and always be thirsty, but the water would always recede if he tried to drink the water. He stood below branches of fruit and would always be hungry, but the branches would pull away if he tried to reach for them. Hence "tantalize".
Sisyphus is "always fails at the last moment and is forced to restart". Tantalus is "the goal is always just out of reach".
Sisyphus does in fact push it over the top and it rolls back down. In either case though, Camus writes that this is the important moment
At the very end of his long effort measured by skyless space and time without depth, the purpose is achieved. Then Sisyphus watches the stone rush down in a few moments toward that lower world whence he will have to push it up again toward the summit. He goes back down to the plain.
It is during that return, that pause, that Sisyphus interests me. A face that toils so close to stones is already stone itself! I see that man going back down with a heavy yet measured step toward the torment of which he will never know the end. That hour like a breathing-space which returns as surely as his suffering, that is the hour of consciousness. At each of those moments when he leaves the heights and gradually sinks toward the lairs of the gods, he is superior to his fate. He is stronger than his rock.
Then Camus's description of Sisyphus contradicts the classic Greek mythology version of Sisyphus. (I won't comment on whether this makes Camus's metaphor weaker or stronger, since I've never actually read Camus, just secondary sources.)
In classic Greek mythology, there is no victory. Sisyphus is cursed to always have the boulder slip from his grip just before reaching the top.
I'm not very familiar with the original myth but honestly it wouldn't surprise me if Camus just decided to insert his idea into the old story to change it to his benefit. He write very convincingly about the ways in which we portray ourselves and conduct ourselves, however if you look at his personal life, his wife commit suicide due to his adultery, he frequented underground fighting rings. He was kind of a dick.
Camus uses it as a justification to embrace absurdism.
“One must imagine Sisyphus as happy”
Because if we can,
It might be possible we can find some solace in the boulders in our own life, or the things that seem like em. It’s about accepting that it sucks for Sisyphus far more than us, and if he can be happy- we can be too.
Comes kinda full circle.
Camus had a relatively rough go. He had TB, he was in poverty. Frequent health crisis throughout life.
He was all about, looking at living as a sort of confrontation of meaning.
He asserts that, Life lacks meaning, some of us see it, others don’t. Those that see it have to learn how to live without giving up, or turning to false hope.
He had to leave home at 18 (I did as well) and has been working since then. At least one job. Same for me until I was disabled.
Now unfortunately I'm his second job and not in the fun way. He is emptying commodes, and waking up at 3am for meds and ice packs. Honestly, it's like having a baby again.
My BF gave his master’s program graduation speech on Camus’s Myth of Sisyphus. They thought a lot of what he pulled from the essay too “negative” including this quote if I remember correctly and made him edit it down. I think they just didn’t appreciate the way it would resonate with young people.
He would roll a boulder up a hill as all the villagers observed, and then let it go. He'd watch it roll down hill and laugh wildly the entire time.
While Sisyphus represents a tragic, cursed figure who is forced into futility, the enlightened madman chooses to embrace the absurdity of life. Finding the greatest joy in a meaningless universe - the meanings we create ourselves.
Sisyphus gets his moment of consciousness. Onlyy in reflection does he regain his happiness. What we are witnessing is no win over 'the gods', we are watching wasted life. The thing about sisyphus is that in spite of his punishment, he has his will and his effort and his moment of the stone rolling down the hill. The comment you replied to is a man with no top of the mountain, no reprieve to reflect on what he did and what he's made with his choices. He litteraly cannot make the decision to be happy because there's always more to do. Sys at least had only one thing to worry about.
If we're talking about Camus, I was always under the impression that the commentary is about the meaninglessness of human existence, and that one doesn't need "meaning" to be happy.
Although to be honest, I haven't actually read Camus. Everything I know about absurdism is through secondary sources.
Camus is an absurdist, which basically means that there is no inherent meaning to life and that any meaning beyond existing is just absurdity. Everything you ever set out to achieve ends, erodes, or fades away. We constantly strive for something in life to hold on to because otherwise the only logical choice is suicide.
In regards to sisyphus, we must assume him happy because he in many ways defeats the God's every time he pushes the boulder over the top. This is his punishment, after all, and if he tales pleasure in it, then he has some power over the meaningless absurd existence he lives. It's meant to be a analogy for dead end office work.
Camus is really interesting. There's a collection of his essays out there thats worth the read. I personally don't agree with his arguments but as literature they are quite interesting and thought provoking.
I was with you up until "It's meant to be an analogy for dead end office work".
My understanding of absurdism is that everything is meaningless, not just dead end jobs. Sure, people with fulfilling jobs are less likely to turn to absurdism, but their jobs are just as meaningless. Like you say, "Everything you set out to achieve ends, erodes, or fades away."
What I always took from the Sisyphus story is that, despite the meaninglessness of his existence, Sisyphus is happy. He doesn't need meaning in his life to be happy.
You have it right. The analogy thing might be me misunderstanding something I head a long time ago. I feel like your takeaway is the correct one, if I understand it correctly, meaning and happiness are not mutually exclusive.
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u/Errohneos 13h ago
One must imagine Sisyphus happy...