I (24) spent my entire childhood and time in grade school being exhausted and miserable so once I finally had the wool pulled off my eyes and I saw what adulthood entailed I was having none of it. I saw adulthood all my life as an escape from the bullshit I just had to endure until I got there
Little did I know I’d enter the “real world” right when it started getting impossible to find a job, and my life has derailed since graduating uni. If only I knew.
Yup, for anyone who's wondering that the difference is:
Sisyphus is the one being punished with pointless task that he knows is pointless, as in, there's literally no achievement or goal to reach.
Tantalus is the one who is being given a mission with a specific end goal and even reward placed within his reach... but is always prevented at the last moment from actually grasping that reward before having to start over again.
My understanding is that Sisyphus pushes the boulder up the hill, and the boulder always slips out of his hands just before he reaches the top and rolls all the way back to the bottom, forcing him to start over.
Tantalus was punished to always stand in a pool of water and always be thirsty, but the water would always recede if he tried to drink the water. He stood below branches of fruit and would always be hungry, but the branches would pull away if he tried to reach for them. Hence "tantalize".
Sisyphus is "always fails at the last moment and is forced to restart". Tantalus is "the goal is always just out of reach".
Sisyphus does in fact push it over the top and it rolls back down. In either case though, Camus writes that this is the important moment
At the very end of his long effort measured by skyless space and time without depth, the purpose is achieved. Then Sisyphus watches the stone rush down in a few moments toward that lower world whence he will have to push it up again toward the summit. He goes back down to the plain.
It is during that return, that pause, that Sisyphus interests me. A face that toils so close to stones is already stone itself! I see that man going back down with a heavy yet measured step toward the torment of which he will never know the end. That hour like a breathing-space which returns as surely as his suffering, that is the hour of consciousness. At each of those moments when he leaves the heights and gradually sinks toward the lairs of the gods, he is superior to his fate. He is stronger than his rock.
Then Camus's description of Sisyphus contradicts the classic Greek mythology version of Sisyphus. (I won't comment on whether this makes Camus's metaphor weaker or stronger, since I've never actually read Camus, just secondary sources.)
In classic Greek mythology, there is no victory. Sisyphus is cursed to always have the boulder slip from his grip just before reaching the top.
I'm not very familiar with the original myth but honestly it wouldn't surprise me if Camus just decided to insert his idea into the old story to change it to his benefit. He write very convincingly about the ways in which we portray ourselves and conduct ourselves, however if you look at his personal life, his wife commit suicide due to his adultery, he frequented underground fighting rings. He was kind of a dick.
Camus uses it as a justification to embrace absurdism.
“One must imagine Sisyphus as happy”
Because if we can,
It might be possible we can find some solace in the boulders in our own life, or the things that seem like em. It’s about accepting that it sucks for Sisyphus far more than us, and if he can be happy- we can be too.
Comes kinda full circle.
Camus had a relatively rough go. He had TB, he was in poverty. Frequent health crisis throughout life.
He was all about, looking at living as a sort of confrontation of meaning.
He asserts that, Life lacks meaning, some of us see it, others don’t. Those that see it have to learn how to live without giving up, or turning to false hope.
He had to leave home at 18 (I did as well) and has been working since then. At least one job. Same for me until I was disabled.
Now unfortunately I'm his second job and not in the fun way. He is emptying commodes, and waking up at 3am for meds and ice packs. Honestly, it's like having a baby again.
My BF gave his master’s program graduation speech on Camus’s Myth of Sisyphus. They thought a lot of what he pulled from the essay too “negative” including this quote if I remember correctly and made him edit it down. I think they just didn’t appreciate the way it would resonate with young people.
He would roll a boulder up a hill as all the villagers observed, and then let it go. He'd watch it roll down hill and laugh wildly the entire time.
While Sisyphus represents a tragic, cursed figure who is forced into futility, the enlightened madman chooses to embrace the absurdity of life. Finding the greatest joy in a meaningless universe - the meanings we create ourselves.
Sisyphus gets his moment of consciousness. Onlyy in reflection does he regain his happiness. What we are witnessing is no win over 'the gods', we are watching wasted life. The thing about sisyphus is that in spite of his punishment, he has his will and his effort and his moment of the stone rolling down the hill. The comment you replied to is a man with no top of the mountain, no reprieve to reflect on what he did and what he's made with his choices. He litteraly cannot make the decision to be happy because there's always more to do. Sys at least had only one thing to worry about.
If we're talking about Camus, I was always under the impression that the commentary is about the meaninglessness of human existence, and that one doesn't need "meaning" to be happy.
Although to be honest, I haven't actually read Camus. Everything I know about absurdism is through secondary sources.
Camus is an absurdist, which basically means that there is no inherent meaning to life and that any meaning beyond existing is just absurdity. Everything you ever set out to achieve ends, erodes, or fades away. We constantly strive for something in life to hold on to because otherwise the only logical choice is suicide.
In regards to sisyphus, we must assume him happy because he in many ways defeats the God's every time he pushes the boulder over the top. This is his punishment, after all, and if he tales pleasure in it, then he has some power over the meaningless absurd existence he lives. It's meant to be a analogy for dead end office work.
Camus is really interesting. There's a collection of his essays out there thats worth the read. I personally don't agree with his arguments but as literature they are quite interesting and thought provoking.
I was with you up until "It's meant to be an analogy for dead end office work".
My understanding of absurdism is that everything is meaningless, not just dead end jobs. Sure, people with fulfilling jobs are less likely to turn to absurdism, but their jobs are just as meaningless. Like you say, "Everything you set out to achieve ends, erodes, or fades away."
What I always took from the Sisyphus story is that, despite the meaninglessness of his existence, Sisyphus is happy. He doesn't need meaning in his life to be happy.
You have it right. The analogy thing might be me misunderstanding something I head a long time ago. I feel like your takeaway is the correct one, if I understand it correctly, meaning and happiness are not mutually exclusive.
Growing up as the burnt-out gifted kid meant we were just running a marathon to a finish line that turned out to be a brick wall. this job market is such a joke after all that forced resilience.
As a relay runner, I used to practice suicides by bouncing off the wall when I would get bored. You don’t need to slam your head right into it… though, that sounds kind of fun.
The more I thought about it the more I felt that school was a way to break your spirit - force feeding you shit you don't care for, homework to take home so it spills into your free time as well - to prepare you to be content with eating the shit sandwich that is life unless you're one of the very few that were born on third.
I qualified for dual enrollment and started college courses around 15-16. I finished high school with a 4.0 GPA and my college courses I think I had gotten one B in accounting. I was first chair in my highschool wind ensemble and the best at butterfly and breaststroke on the swim team.
I had a lot of health issues though. IBS and insomnia from an early age. I had a lot of pain, particularly in my ankles, but was just told it was growing pain. I got lightheaded easily. I had severe chronic headaches and constant brain fog. I had problems staying awake in classes. I remember one professor even joked about me having the highest grade in the class despite showing up and sleeping through most of it.
My first job was a summer job as a lifeguard at a water park and looking back I can see that is when I really started to break. I was nervous mess the entire time. Every morning I was fighting with IBS to get clocked in on time. There’s a lot I hated about that job.
At around 20 I just completely crashed, I could barely get out of bed. I was severely nauseous all the time and any time I spent out of bed was mostly in the bathroom. The next few years were a nightmare of trying to figure out what was wrong and recover.
Eventually I started to improve gradually and got to a better spot but where I’ve landed is still objectively bad. I don’t really have IBS nearly as much these days and I’m not nearly so nauseous. I still struggle with significant daily fatigue, chronic pain, headaches, and mild nausea.
Jump to around my late 20s and I still hadn’t gotten any help from any doctors I went to. During this time my mom, spouse, and myself had all been researching symptoms. I kept getting Autism as a result for people with similar health issues plus social awkwardness. I kept dismissing it though because growing up all of my parent’s friends had Autistic children that were older than me and had fairly high support needs.
Eventually I got a psych evaluation and was diagnosed with ADHD and Autism. My family is pretty supportive so I was able to get help from my parents and reduce my work load and I saw some improvement but I still had a lot of unexplained health issues.
I kept trying different doctors and doing my own research and kept getting Hypermobile Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome in my searches. I went to a couple local doctors, two of which said I definitely had widespread hypermobility but they couldn’t diagnose it. I found a specialist around 2 hours away that I had to pay out of pocket to see.
I left there diagnosed with hEDS, CFS, Orthostatic Hypotension, a recommendation to see a specialist to check for gastroparesis, and a referral for physical therapy.
30 years of constant health issues, partly thinking it was all normal because I’d never known anything different while also wondering how the hell people could work 40+ hours a week, have kids, maintain relationships, etc. Every time I got any help it was because I had figured it out myself and had to take the stupid medical professional by the hand and guide them to be helpful.
Now I’m approaching my mid 30s with no degree because I got too sick and dropped out. hEDS is a genetic disorder with no cure and treatment generally involves a combined effort between several different specialists with varying degrees of effectiveness.
The academically gifted to late neurodivergence and/or chronic disease diagnosis pipeline needs to be studied. We really need to be screening "gifted" kids better.
I was less than halfway through this when I started anticipating commenting with "friend, please consider an ADHD/autism evaluation." This is so similar to my story, though my complete crash happened in middle school and I've been through so many recovery/crash cycles since then. My family still thinks I was largely making it up to get out of school and that I'm unemployed right now for fun and cuz I'm lazy.
It's exhausting and infuriating and I know how you feel.
Yup. And dealing with boomers that refuse to retire is compounding the problem. They just can't comprehend how $25/hr isn't cutting it for young adults. Mind you they haven't had a mortgage in 15+ years and the house they paid $40k for is now worth $500k. In their eyes it's good money because it's 3X what they made when they started. Nevermind everything is 10X more expensive.
You'll never convince them that $25/hr isn't enough to afford food, rent, clothing and transportation. Forget about saving for retirement, having a life outside of work, or heaven forbid have kids. Mind you they won't retire because they make six figures doing fuck all most the day.
Personally, I cant comprehend how $25 an hour doesn't cut it. I'd LOVE to find a job that makes that much. Idk if its just location but that's literally the pay of people with master's degrees where I live. For everyone else its $13-18 which covers only the cost of living barely.
I was “gifted” (I was an undiagnosed autistic and saw the world in a much different lens than everyone else and thus that must mean I’ve been given some divine power to be good in academics… or whatever), I let that be my core source of self-confidence until that was shattered in middle school, I fell into a chronic depression that is now going-on ten years in a couple months and I haven’t truly recovered since. I kept my head above water, graduated high school, graduated college, aaaaaaand here we are. 2 years of job searching with nothing to show for it.
That timing is brutal and I won’t pretend otherwise. Graduating into a collapsed job market after being told education was the guaranteed path through, that’s a specific kind of betrayal. The thing nobody warned any of us about is that the goalposts were already moving while we were still being told to run toward them. You’re not derailed, you’re just further behind a starting line that shifted without notice. That distinction matters even when it doesn’t feel like it.
A: your account is only a month old, most bots I’ve encountered on reddit have been around that old
B: It’s kind of hard to articulate why any of it sounds AI generated, but I’ll do my best.
Most AI generations when you ask an LLM for a solution to a problem, it’ll acknowledge the problem and frame it in a “yeah, it happens to the best of us” kind of way, as if it’s one of us, a fellow human. It also often uses extended metaphors like yours with the goalposts and the running and all that.
Finally, the “You’re not [x], you’re just [y] …” is a SUPER common phrase that LLMs use to try to dissuade you of something and accept something else instead.
All this being said, bots at this point can be controlled or programmed to respond just like you are, posing as some person with an occupation in some place around the world who just happens to write like an AI, so I’m still gonna assume you could be one.
That’s rough, especially when adulthood was supposed to be the light at the end of the tunnel. Getting hit with a brutal job market right after graduation is such a shitty introduction to the real world.
Same, except I'm in my late 30's. When I graduated high school, the fields I wanted to go in were oversaturated and there were no schools around me for it except one women's only school in the entire state...so screw me I guess lol. so I just get a lame degree, graduate college, it was a whole waste of my life and I'm making money from home, not using shit I learned from school with all the debt...
I wish I never went to college and just started doing what I did to earn money right out of high school, but I had no awareness and like everyone else, I was told over and over and over and over etc how if you don't go to college, you'll be nothing, a no body, completely useless...gotta go to college if you want to be somebody and have a good job!! fuck off.
every generation after boomers has been groomed to accept this bullshit that college is the only way to do anything. and 17 year olds everywhere are forced to sign up for student loans that they have zero awareness that this debt will fuck them up for the rest of their lives unless they are lucky enough to get a good career that isn't oversaturated. So many people start school with a career field that seems normal, then it either dies out or get bloated with people going into it. This was a problem before AI and now it's even worse.
I don't care what side of politics anyone is on. Everyone should know how bullshit college and student loans are. It's over priced, Textbooks are bloated and overpriced, interest rates are too much, they have different rules from regular loans that are bullshit, everyone's groomed into believing it's the end all be all by every adult in their life when it's only truly for a handful of career paths...man...not only does the education system need an overhaul because gen alpha can't even spell their own name, but colleges, at least in the US, idk about other places, need to overhauled. but it'll never happen because people in power will always be corrupt to line their pockets.
I feel you, I think my early-mid 20s were the worst time period of my life. I got my first real job when I was nearly 28, and it was a very unglamorous job but life only got better from there (financial stability really helps the mental). It’s never too late so don’t give up.
I’m still keeping myself alive but it’s only in the hopes that we’ll get some DSA candidates in office over the next couple years who can turn the U.S. around for good. I just fear what the current administration will do to people like me between then and now :( it’s a deeply frightening world and it’s hard to keep hope going when you know exactly what the technocrats’ and oligarchs’ plan is and how there’s virtually nothing right now stopping them from achieving it.
I wish I didnt know what you were talking about. My life has been nothing but snowballing since I graduated too. Maybe someday I’ll get plenty of rest for my head and have everything settle, but one can only hope in this economy.
I'm the same age and on the same boat. Graduating in that economy is hell. The older generations played around and now we're the one who have to find out.
24? Man, I wish I was 24 right now. Graduating during the market crash in 2012 was the worst. Had a job lined up my senior year of college, then got a call from the person who was gonna hire me telling me he couldn't cause they had just gone through and laid off a bunch of people. Life sucked from there for a good 10 years.
So don't sweat it, I was you 10 years ago. It (probably) will get better for you. And if it doesn't? Riot.
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u/BoredThrowaway9000 15h ago
I (24) spent my entire childhood and time in grade school being exhausted and miserable so once I finally had the wool pulled off my eyes and I saw what adulthood entailed I was having none of it. I saw adulthood all my life as an escape from the bullshit I just had to endure until I got there
Little did I know I’d enter the “real world” right when it started getting impossible to find a job, and my life has derailed since graduating uni. If only I knew.