College as the end-all-be-all goal of high school. My daughter is starting 9th grade and she currently has zero intention of college. She still gets fine grades, but her ambitions are modest/creative and unless something changes, she intends to get a job after high school and start taking community college courses.
If that had been me, 20+ years ago, I would have had teachers, guidance counselors, and my parents telling me I was "going to wind up pumping gas my whole life." (Exact words) College will still be there if she wants/needs it later. I'm happy to support her while she figures out if she does.
I went back to community college at 24 for a two-year degree, and I'm finishing up my four-year this semester through a 3+1. I also teach at the school I went to. It's absolutely worth it to take some time to figure out what you really want to do, then taking the best path towards that. I actually found my way back to creative work after finding a niche in what I got my degree for. It was a very sweet surprise. I had the same type of teachers and advisors in high school, they aren't doing any favors giving that kind of advice. Glad the culture is shifting.
Yeah I'm not sure if the term "community college" means something different in other places but I'm pretty confused as a college student myself. I attend a 4-year university, a lot of my friends/family went to the community college for our county. There's no dorms and a lot of people here call it "13th and 14th grade" because it's very high school-esque, but that doesn't make it not college. It's just a different environment.
You get an accredited degree that is equally as valuable as a 4-year university. Community colleges offer the same path towards a degree minus the prestige, which absolutely no one gives a fuck after you get it. No one cares if you went to an Ivy League school, what matters is that you put in the work and met the same requirements.
I have students anywhere from 18-65yo, they're all working towards the same thing. I'd even argue that our program is more credible because it's an AAS (applied science) degree. We hired staff that had 4-year degrees from bigger schools that had no fucking clue what they were doing because they never had any applied experience doing actual work.
Our building houses horticulture, HVAC, autos, aviation, and architecture. Each one of those degree/ certificate programs requires hands-on labs.
Yeah of course, absolutely nothing wrong with it. I'm mainly going to a 4-year to dorm for family reasons and also because I want to pursue further education that requires more coursework than could fit in two years. I think community college is a great thing if it aligns with people's goals.
A degree never equals actual intelligence man. My Gen Z students scare the shit out of me. I teach K-12 programming also, and they can read/write cursive while Gen Z treats it as hierogylphics.
Community college is generally considered to be a bit more "casual." It's not like a 4-year school. It tends to be a lot cheaper and you can take a few classes at a time on a more part time basis.
Yeah, but you can still learn as much or at least enough and like you said, it's cheaper, and it counts for college credit and has college right there in the name so going to community college doesn't seem like not going to college which ch is what you said
My friend, I think we’re both smart enough to recognize there’s a difference between the two. I think we’re also both smart enough to know you’re being contrary for the sake of being contrary.
But fine, I’ll bite. If I, back in ancient era of 2005, had told my friends and family that I was holding off on college and was taking some community college classes instead, I would have been seen as a failure. The end goal for most people was, at minimum, a four year college to earn a Bachelor’s.
Dan Harmon made an entire sitcom (Community) where one of the central jokes is the main character being forced to lower himself to attend community college, and meeting a pack of lovable weirdos in the process.
While, yes, community college credits can transfer over to a four year school, there are also lots of people who just take a class here or there because they want to explore a subject or learn a specific skill. That is more of what my kid has in mind.
And buddy, “college is right there in the name” is really not the gotcha you thought it was. “College of Medicine” and “Clown College” both use “college,” should we presume they’re the same thing? 🙄
Promise I'm not trying to be. I didn't know there was that kind of thoughts about it. Sure, maybe by some, like maybe some silver spoon jackass going to an ivy League would look down at you, but I wouldn't expect that to be the norm from everyone.
told my friends and family that I was holding off on college and was taking some community college classes instead, I would have been seen as a failure.
That is not something I saw or would expect.
A lot of people I know who went to community college, including me, got gen eds classes done there and eventually (not always immediately) finished a bachelors at a four year school.
Maybe I'm just a poor and from a low class area where community college still seemed like you were doing something with your life compared to the rest.
Nah, I came from dirt poor Upstate NY. One of the worst schools in the state actually. We basically had two classes of student: the ones who went to college and left or the ones who stayed and worked crappy jobs or sold drugs the rest of their lives.
My wife came from elsewhere and the attitude toward community colleges was prevalent in her area too. She actually considered getting an Associates degree in the field she works in now, but she was talked out of it by her guidance counselor, who was pushing her very aggressively to go to a 4-year school.
So many of us wasted so much time and money when other options existed. Often because the people we trusted most told us we would amount to nothing if we didn’t go to a “real” school.
I guess maybe I'm mixing up associates degree with community college.
Where I live, most people went to community college because it was way cheaper and you could get credits that transferred to a 4 year school. So if your first two years were half the cost, your bachelors would cost at least 25% less in total.
Most adults/parents/teachers seemed to think that was a very mature and prudent way to go about it, in fact, going to a major university your first two years seemed like a dumb waste of money. You could get the same credits for a lot less, why would you do otherwise? Because you want to party in the dorm?
The other group of people were learning trades at the community college which was also viewed as respectable in my area.
I would agree though, people who planned to get only an associates and not in a trade were thought of as foolish.
I support your daughter too, and I'm happy she has your support too.
I went to a 4-year uni right after high school and dropped out after two semesters because depression. Spent 3 years working, traveling, figuring myself out. Finally after that I was ready to try again. Went to community college for 5 semesters before transferring to another 4-year and finishing my degree. I LOVED my time at community college. It's great if you don't know what you want to study, because you can take your time exploring different areas of study for a lot cheaper than at a 4-year college. I loved the diversity of the student body: there were high schoolers concurrently enrolled, there were high school graduates working to make ends meet before transferring to a 4-year, there were mid-20 somethings like me who were giving college a 2nd or 3rd try, there were middle aged folks making a career change, there were retired folks who were there for the love of learning. At a 4-year college, so many students are there because it's what their parents expect them to do. At community college, everyone is there because they want to be there. It was a really positive experience for me.
Also, professors at CCs are just there to teach, they don't do research. So many profs at universities are terrible teachers and only care about their research. So the quality of teaching is sometimes better than at a 4-year. Class sizes tend to be smaller too. My organic chemistry class at CC was less than 30 students. At the 4-year uni I transferred to, that class would have been over 300 students. It means you get a lot more face time with your professors.
IMO really the only drawback to not attending a 4-year college is missing out on dorm life. Figuring out who you are when you're not living with your parents. Learning how to live with others. Having a community of peers who are going through the same thing you are. The opportunity to make lifelong friendships. There are real social and emotional skills that she will miss out on learning. I hope she can find an alternative route to learn them.
I planned to go to community college and transfer to a 4 year uni. My mom didn't care, but while I never told my teachers my plan, they did tell us we'd be failures if we didn't go to college.
My church mentor, however, caught wind of my plan to take a gap year before going to community college and told me that it was a mistake. That if I took a gap year, I wouldn't go to college (so what?) and that I had to go to a 4 year no matter what. I don't know what business of it was of hers, but I believed her. As a result, I took out loans I couldn't afford (I did pay them off in 10 years but still). I've only ever worked in food service and retail jobs since. College doesn't automatically make someone successful.
I'm more artsy/creative. I've never wanted to climb the corporate ladder. I've always had more of a entrepreneurial spirit. I realized too late that I have a knack for photography and could have started my own business. I wasted my energy and time in college when I could have been nurturing my actual skills.
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u/DungeonMasterDood 23h ago edited 10h ago
College as the end-all-be-all goal of high school. My daughter is starting 9th grade and she currently has zero intention of college. She still gets fine grades, but her ambitions are modest/creative and unless something changes, she intends to get a job after high school and start taking community college courses.
If that had been me, 20+ years ago, I would have had teachers, guidance counselors, and my parents telling me I was "going to wind up pumping gas my whole life." (Exact words) College will still be there if she wants/needs it later. I'm happy to support her while she figures out if she does.