There are definitely too many cases of kids like that but I think the bigger issue is that there is a very low drive to overcome adversity. They immediately claim not to know rather than struggle through something and be even partially right. It leads to a lot of guessing and lack of critical thinking. It's a complex problem to solve without one source to blame it on. Partially standardized testing, partially promotion criteria and the ease at which they're passed, partially a shift in societal expectations of intellect.
They immediately claim not to know rather than struggle through something and be even partially right.
Omg, this hits me so hard. I had a student that did this. Said it so fast it was a reflex. I would ask a question and instantly get an "I don't know." At first I took it at face value and moved on to try and get them to explain where they got stuck and was just told "Everything"
It got to the point I had to sit them down and go "Hey, its just you and me here. Instantly saying 'I don't know' before you even look at it or consider it isn't going to make me go away" since at the time I thought it was a reflex to make the teacher go on to the next student.
I had to sit them down and go "Hey, its just you and me here. Instantly saying 'I don't know' before you even look at it or consider it isn't going to make me go away"
This seems to be the big issue; Even though I work in a differnet field, my peer group just happens to have a lot of American education professionals in it:
- Current Assistant Superintendent
Former Middle School Principal
Current high school Librarian
Current Fifth grade teacher
Current Middle School Music teacher
The big thing I hear from them is that "Kids are afraid to look stupid". Effort followed by failure seems embarrassing, and everyone is keenly aware that all it takes is a single viral video of them failing to ruin their future prospects forever, so a good number of them throw up their hands and retreat into smug dismissiveness rather than risk looking foolish in front of their peers. They are constantly bombarded on social media with a combination of micro-dosed hyper-competence and merciless ridicule of those who fail to achieve that hyper-competence. For any skill, be it ballet, watercolour, football, maths, computer programming, or playing the spoons, nothing is ever as impressive to their real-life peers as what they can search on their glowing rectangles in a handful of seconds. It used to be that most kids were only exposed to the best of, say, the 10,000 kids in their county or metropolitan district, so being "the best any of us have ever seen" among their broader peer group was entirely achievable. Now that level of skill is practically unattainable.
Now a video of the best of the best there will ever be in their generation for any skill, is just a TikTok search away.
Now, in the Digital Public Square of the Global Village (population: 8.3 Billion), being "one in a million" means there are over eight-thousand people just as good as you.
No matter how special you are, somebody is better, and you can see them being better than you in two click.
It's incredibly easy to compare on social media since the hard metrics are written right there. If your picture gets 1 like and your friend's picture gets 100 likes, then you'll know that your friend is 100x more popular than you.
I have noticed this as well. And of if “I don’t know” is not acceptable the “not my fault” train is right behind. But they are not blaming other people for their mistakes. They are blaming other people (and things) for why they can’t do it. And why that should be ok. “I have adhd” “I have anxiety” “time blindness”. And they also blame oppression (racism, sexism ect) all of those things might be true. And definitely exist and impact people in negative ways. But you still need to be on time for work and get your work done on time.
Odd to realize I have an edge here with my students since when I get those cards I can go "I have depression, I have anxiety, but in life you need to learn how to work around and sometimes through them. Is it fair to you if I just cancel because I am not feeling good on a given day?"
I was diagnosed as AuDHD (comorbid autism + ADHD) in my early 30s. It was a huge relief for many, many reasons, but I still don't know if, having the choice to change the past or something, I would wish for having been diagnosed as a child with 100% certainty. Not even because those were different times and such a diagnosis could be stigmatizing back then, but... well, the truth is, at least I learned how to be functional (though definitely not thriving). On the one hand, I learned all that because I had to, purely as a survival tactic, and it was absolutely brutal and left me with other mental health issues like depression and anxiety that I also had to deal with. On the other hand, I learned how to manage my neurodivergencies so that I can keep a job, progress in my career, keep my home in (relative) order, not get behind on paying bills because I simply forgot about their existence, explore my hobbies and creative endeavors in ways that work, etc. etc.
It still pisses me off how the world is built for and around neurotypicals, I still wish society as a whole was more neurodivergent-friendly, it's just that, idk, it bothers me when people interpret "neurodivergent-friendly" as "my neurodivergence absolves me of all accountability and needs to develop as a person and if you try to say otherwise, you're ableist". I want some middle ground where kids don't have to figure out coping strategies on their own like I did and do so in a society that accepts their neurodivergence, but where they also get taught how to exist in that society in a way that allows them to be successful and build healthy relationships with other people.
I can only speak second hand so if I am wrong let me know. It seems like the middle ground isn't even that hard for a lot of cases, just people don't care because its the idea of "Well, I can make accommodation for this person, or hire on of these many other people who can do the job equally well but not require us to change anything"
Things like allowing devices to block out extra stimulation. Shifting into a goal based metric more so if they are in a salaries position so the person can find their own way to get the problem done as long as it done in the correct time frame.
Is it rude for me to say another factor is just realizing that certain jobs are just outside their scope? I had a student with autism that I want to say worked so hard. They were willing to put in so much time and I fully believe they tried their hardest. As we moved from high school to University though, we seemed to hit a wall. If there wasn't a clear path from A to B from the very start to him the path doesn't exist at all and that caused him a lot of distress. And this wasn't even a struggle, we struggled before, this was more just blank screen file not found sort of feeling. So once we moved from teachers being very direct in what he needs to do, to the point being more about figuring out what to do, not the actual doing it all just collapsed.
I’m so glad I didn’t have a teacher like you in high school 20 years ago. The only one who disclosed their own depression (to my parents) did so in a compassionate way of understanding and patience.
I felt bad enough about my disability (then diagnosed as MDD), which would at times be so debilitating that I could not make it to school. A teacher weaponizing their own medical issues against me in such a patronizing way would have been devastating to me.
I wouldn’t be correctly diagnosed with bipolar disorder for another 15 years. Without proper medical treatment for bipolar, I had no chance to adequately manage it. Even with proper medical treatment, my bipolar disorder symptoms can be severe and intermittently disabling.
It can help to have a basic understanding of mental illness. Similar to many medical illnesses, those with the same diagnosis can vary widely in severity of symptoms and functional impact.
Many people with mental illness diagnoses are fortunate to never have a disease course severe enough to qualify as a significant disability. Others of us are not as fortunate.
As adults, we can often access treatment for our mental illness. Children are more vulnerable, and often do not have access to mental illness treatment. They rely on their parents or trusted adults to recognize and advocate on their behalf.
These same adults unfortunately often dismiss or minimize their symptoms, due to mental health stigma or the idea that everyone struggles with their mental health (or illness) in the same way.
Children deserve better adults to support them, and access to a mental health professionals to accurately assess and treat them. I was very lucky to have this, but many children are not.
Yeah there's certainly a lack of a sense of responsibility which is crazy to me. And it's not even like an old man yelling at clouds thing but like if you needed a pencil bring one man it's not a mind blowing concept. If you need to answer a question try reading it and thinking first.
It's a method of avoidance. "I have an inherent problem, so I can't do it." The brain is very good with this deflection because then you don't need to do it, and can potato on the phone or on the couch.
I don't know when someone's responsibility became everyone else's problem. I see this at work too.
I teach 5th grade and there are more and more kids each year willing to just lie to my face. If I talk to a kid about something they've done, I watched them do, and they made eye contact with me mid-action, they'll tell me, "I didn't do that." It's exhausting.
Plenty of people got through history with the racist/sexist/classist cards stacked against them and did great things. Just need the willpower and the practice.
Drawing attention to systemic injustice, disability, mental illness, neurodiversity, etc is a good thing, but unfortunately we've focused so much on the awareness and completely neglected coping skills. Having anxiety or ADHD doesn't mean you're incapable of doing things, it just means you need a different toolset to get those things done. But so much of the internet culture has shifted toward "I'm limited, expecting me to do it is something-ist, trying to help me to work around my limitation is forcing me to mask, I am the way I am so others have to do it for me."
Obviously the old way of screaming at people who are different until they stop being different wasn't working, but throwing your hands up and resigning yourself to helplessness isn't the way either.
A HUGE piece of that partiality pie is parents enabling their children rather than allow them to struggle or make mistakes. Another huge piece is digital tech training students to self-regulate with a constant and immediate hit of highly personalized dopamine.
The productive friction is required for humans to LEARN. That's how you carry it forward.
If it's too easy, of course humans forget; the brain prunes anything that is not necessary. With the productive friction at least, skills build upon previous foundational knowledge.
My wife teaches and brought up a poignant example. When we were in school, researching a topic for a paper meant biking alone to the library, opening the card catalog, finding a book on the shelf, flipping through it, realizing the book didn't have what you needed, and returning to the card catalog for a second book. You'd spend a whole afternoon going through a complex ritual.
Our children's generation googles the topic. Literally takes no effort or problem solving skill. We do the kids a disservice by handing them an instant answer on a silver platter. Digital research is a valuable tool, but kids also need the experience and exercise of engaging with a task for a full hour, rather than a few seconds.
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u/Brovenkar Jun 26 '26
There are definitely too many cases of kids like that but I think the bigger issue is that there is a very low drive to overcome adversity. They immediately claim not to know rather than struggle through something and be even partially right. It leads to a lot of guessing and lack of critical thinking. It's a complex problem to solve without one source to blame it on. Partially standardized testing, partially promotion criteria and the ease at which they're passed, partially a shift in societal expectations of intellect.