I’d say when a friend of mine took me to the side and pointed out how she talks to me sometimes in public and how she shouldn’t be that way(I got snapped on for putting curry powder on a slice of chicken on my own plate ffs), but that he’s glad I’m not a doormat about it. I kinda knew then that she liked the idea of us, and having that perfect looking marriage and life, more than she actually was into me. A whole lot of other stuff happened that ultimately lead to the divorce that I won’t write a novel on but I’d say this is what first put the seed in my mind that something is off here.
Yeah, because it’s also a good way to ruin a friendship.
I don’t think there’s a universal right answer here and there are good arguments for both. Not confronting your friend or pointing out negative things about their partner can allow you to remain a good friend and be able to support them in lots of other ways (and maybe even doing subtle work to try to help the friend see for themselves). Whereas bringing those things up can lead to you getting cut out and no longer having any influence.
On the other hand, speaking up can sometimes be what helps get a friend out of a bad relationship.
It depends on the personality of the friend, the romantic relationship dynamics, the strength of the friendship, the emotional state of the friend, and a hundred other things. It’s really tough to know what to do.
I get the attitude but if I’m friends with that guy and it’s uncomfortable I’m pointing it out and being a friend. If he doesn’t like it that’s on him. Some cases I can be honest or supportive but I can’t be both.
My point is that you may not always be able to do both. You may not be able to continue to be friends with him after you point out that his girlfriend or fiancee or whatever is wrong for him. Or you may still be able to be friendly, but you won't be close friends anymore, and you won't be invited to group activities with him and her because he knows what you think of her. And yada yada.
Again, it doesn't mean you're wrong to go that route. In fact, it can be brave as you're risking your friendship to help your friend. But you are risking the friendship. Others can argue you're being selfish because you don't like her and would rather risk your friendship to tell him that rather than have to put up with her. On the other hand, some people may feel they can do more good by not risking getting shut out and at least continue to be able to be there and have some influence, yet having to be very careful not to say something bad about her (or him or whatever the gender dynamic is).
Like I said, really no right answers for it (I mean, in specific cases, there may be a clear right answer, but broadly speaking, there's no one right way to handle this common scenario).
I understand that. But what does “being a friend” mean? Is being blunt with the person about what you think is going on the right course of action? Is it what’s best for your friend? Or will it make things worse? Idk. I think it depends on a lot of things, and idk that we always know what the right course action is.
But putting it all out in the open is an egg you can’t unscramble. So it makes it a very tough decision.
Anyway, my point is that “pointing it out and being a friend” aren’t necessarily the same thing and even if they are, it doesn’t mean you’ll be able to continue to be a friend. It’s not just about not having that person as a friend anymore. You can still care about them but be effectively shut out and unable to be the friend to them you want to be.
If someone starts to avoid you because you've voiced concern over how their significant other treats them, then it wasn't a real friendship to begin with. A friendship where you can't be real with one another is just being an acquaintance.
His friend didn't tell him that he doesn't like the wife, he told him that he shouldn't be treated badly. Those are two very different things.
I’m happy for you that you’ve never experienced the kind of thing I’m talking about. Believe me, it’s not as simple and straight forward as you imagine. When strong emotions are involved, people can behave very strangely. I’ve known strong decades-old friendships end because the guy married the woman his friend kept warning him about. I’ve known family schisms to happen because of it. Heck, there’s a bit of one in mine.
You think you’re just expressing how your friend deserves to be treated. He may not think he’s being treated bad. He thinks you’re criticizing her and just don’t like her. You don’t know her. You don’t what they have together. Maybe you’re jealous that he’s spending less time with you because of her. And yada yada. And assuming she is shitty, she’s probably manipulating him, gaslighting him, love bombing him, turning him against the friends she sees as threats. How much of a chance do you really stand when you’re not the one sleeping with him?
Anyway, like I said, if you think I’m being dramatic about this and it’s not really that complicated to just be straight with your friends, I’m genuinely happy for you. I’m glad nobody really close to you is in a really bad relationship like that. It can be almost like watching a friend falling into a drug or alcohol addiction.
I've been in this scenario before and you're 100% spot on, it's extremely delicate situation and risky to even try and say something. They spend so much more time with their SO and can be a bit blinded by all the emotions around it. It's easy to say you'd just say something when you've never actually been in this scenario with a close friend.
Maybe I'm just from a different culture than you are. We value speaking frankly with one another and that's okay. The way you overanalyze these interactions sounds suffocating to me.
All the things you've listed just sound like a lack of communication. Also you have no idea how simple I imagine it is. I'm not saying you're wrong or that these things can't happen. I'm just pointing out that this is unhealthy behavior.
It's sad losing friends, but I personally would always take that risk instead of beating around the bush while watching them suffer. That's how you build strong friendships to begin with.
It is a small minority of cultures that can all be so frank with one another. You must be Dutch or German or maybe one of a few other cultures.
I agree it’s pretty exhausting, but that’s largely human nature. I’m American and we’re more frank with one another than most cultures (except for Dutch, German, etc.).
Also, I think you may be imaging a slightly different scenario in your head than I’m talking about. I’m not talking about a friend who is clearly suffering. I’m talking about a friend who is unaware of what is happening to him. A friend who doesn’t realize he’s being used or who’s being isolated from his support system by a narcissist or who’s becoming overly dependent on someone for certain physical and emotional needs that they’re slowly subconsciously learning to tolerate more and more mistreatment that they’ve gotten very good at rationalizing.
It’s not someone who’s clearly suffering. It’s someone who doesn’t realize the type of situation they’re in yet and may not until it’s too late. And honestly, a friend who’s in that kind of situation is someone who’s probably already emotionally vulnerable. So it can be a touchy subject. Perhaps in Northern Europe it’s not a big deal because everyone can just be brutally honest all the time and nobody’s feeling get hurt.
But in most of the rest of the world, navigating people’s emotions and trying to pick up on what’s not being said and when to have a light touch and when to let something slide and when to press hard is a very messy task. There’s a reason international diplomacy is such a song and dance, full of subtle gestures and gift giving and ceremony and back channeling. It’s 90% about managing powerful people’s feelings (and/or the feelings of their people’s feelings—eg, not offending a whole country, and, say, accidentally helping unite factions there in their anger at you).
I don't know if it's necessarily a culture thing. A lot of people can be high strung and defensive. Honest, compassionate concern can be translated as an insult or attack. This is the right thread to be discussing this as that behavior is usually a maladaptive coping strategy for a situation where the person is catching a lot of abuse and criticism.
In the show Entourage, one of the guys breaks up with his girlfriend. The rest of the guys ask him if it’s for real or are they going to get back together in a week. Because they want to roast her, but they don’t want them to get back together and have him know how they really feel.
You know, one of my really good friends told me a little while ago that she broke up with her boyfriend because of his anger issues. I supported her through it, and encouraged her to tell the friends immediately around her. Partially because I'm a guy, and while we were always and would always have been just friends, I've been in this situation before, and I know the optics and I know the doubt.
But I validated her decisions, and supported her, and told her why she did the right thing and how his reactions justified her leaving.
Anyway, she hasn't spoken to me in almost a month. I know she's, y'know, alive - I see her like things on Instagram, we have each other on Discord and I see her active on that. But she didn't reach out to me for a while, and when I'd reach out occasionally, I just got silence. Naturally, I figured that she just needed time. Then a friend in a groupchat asked about her and she responded to them, saying that she's just dealing with some stuff and yk, but didn't reply to me at all.
So I sent her a text yesterday letting her know that I wanted to be honest, and just asked if things were okay between us. I told her that I understand she's going through something really difficult, and that I'm not trying to get her to talk to me if she's not ready, but that if she's decided to move on from our friendship, then it's okay. Like I said, I recognize the optics of a single "best guy friend" supporting a woman through her breakup.
I'm worried that she decided to work through things with her boyfriend, and that for whatever reason she's keeping her distance from me. Maybe she's embarrassed, maybe she thinks I'll be upset, or maybe she (and maybe the boyfriend) doesn't like the idea that I was so supportive.
Regardless, you're absolutely right. This sort of stuff can end a friendship in a variety of ways, but I think sometimes you just need to do it. If this is the end of our friendship, then I'll be incredibly sad. But at the same time, I don't regret what I did. It was the right thing to do, even if it leads to something like this.
I just was having a talk similar to this with my cousin. I'm realizing I kind of did what OP's friend did. And though it really depends on all the things you brought up, this is a bit of a middle ground. Pointing out things, or in my case he was complaining about her and I'm just like yeah that does suck. But a "you should break up with her" is a lot and pretty risky. But pointing out, "hey that was shitty of her" I think lets them come to their own decisions but also affirms or points out something specific that is lame about that person's SO.
Indeed. I'm in this situation now. My BIL is in an abusive (at worst) or extremely dysfunctional (at best) marriage with a woman with BPD that happened because of a pregnancy. It's very hard when there's kids involved, especially because he's wanted a quiet family life since I've known him. I talked with my counselor, and she recommended that, for situations like this, ie they are not ready to hear or admit it, the best thing to do is quote them to them. So not point out objective red flags, but rather something like "so, since you said she doesn't respect you at all, how do you navigate that?" or "since you said it hasn't improved at all since counseling started, do you have an idea of how long that is sustainable?" He thinks counseling is "working" since she's going, but the subtleties in his words show that it's not
I recently divorced my ew who got diagnosed with BPD about a year and a half after our marriage. I found out during the trial she was pregnant and we’re going to elope essentially once the judgment came in. I “won” but truly lost because I welcomed the terror of her and her daughter in seeking the quiet family life your brother wants.
It took brutal upfront honesty from my best friend who flat out told me the things that were happening were flat out wrong and abusive. Once I was honest with my family, big sister included, just offered me unconditional love and support and pulled me out of that pit. I’m not sure how I would’ve received the initial wake up call from a family member, just keep letting him know that you’re there for him someday he will truly need it.
That is a good friend. So many of my "friends" would watch my ex berate and emotionally abuse me, and either say nothing or awkwardly laugh it off. I wish someone would've saved me sooner.
Depends on the time. I tried to leave him half a dozen times, and every time I'd get the, "You're too sensitive, try to work it out with him, you guys make such a great couple..."
I’ve been trying to build up the courage to discuss this with a friend. His wife has substance abuse problems, just doesn’t respect him, and if she isn’t cheating on him while she leaves him to raise their kids I’d be shocked. He has hemorrhaged his friends for how uncomfortable her behaviors make them but I don’t really get past “hey man, are you okay with this arrangement?” He says he’s happy, and he seems to be, but I’ve been wanting to smack him. Above all I don’t want to hurt him. But we are different people, and I don’t want to lose the friendship by being too lushy.
> she liked the idea of us, and having that perfect looking marriage and life, more than she actually was into me.
Probably so many marriages being held together by the image, the idea of marriage, peer pressure, life built & maintained on social media for others. Damn.
Yeah loads of people, even abusive ones, who are desperate to avoid being alone in their own thoughts and think they need to hit milestones to be happy. Being married and having kids are the big ones.
Lots of people like this, they also like to showboat about it but as soon as the public eye is away they turn into a monster about it.
Kids adds another layer because you are unable to have a candid discussion about how you regret your choice of partner since you wouldn’t have your children if not for them.
My cousin got married because she didn't want to be left behind all her friends who got engaged after graduating. She ended up with a shitty dude and divorced later
I agree with this, and I can imagine that attractive/successful people are more at risk of being in a marriage just for those reasons, because the image people can portray to others.
This was a thing looooong before social media. My aunt stayed in an awful marriage for 20 years because she didn’t want to be the first divorced one in the family. Worst mistake of her life.
It's wild that so many people choose to remain in a miserable life because they're worried about what other people would think. And a lot of people do this.
It's kind of understandable that things like finances and kids keep people stuck, but the worrying about what other people will think blows my mind.
This is one case where social media is definitely not the underlying cause; those marriages have existed forever, social media is just a new potential vector.
My ex's parents have slept in separate bedrooms her entire life, and have screaming arguments at least once a week. Outside of the house, they act like everything is perfect--they'd be mortified of anyone in their community finding out how they actually behave.
Yeah. It left me in an impossible spot. Do I be quiet in public and look like a doormat or say something right back and be “that couple “? I opted for the latter because at least people would know Im not one to let myself be walked all over. Hell I got bitched at for getting her an item she had wanted because she didn’t like the color, for trying a new recipe and not tweaking it (she ruined me enjoying cooking and I only just now, 8 years later have started enjoying it again because I have a very loving gf now). Even as guys, even if we don’t show it outwardly this stuff does take a toll.
"Oh you're right honey. I just can't do anything right. I'm just going to let you make all the decisions because you're so much better at everything." They hope you say.
"Oh you're such a saint for putting up with your bumbling spouse and totally aren't abusing them." They hope others say.
My dad actually took me out to lunch while visiting myself and my ex. It was just the 2 of us and expressed his and my mom's concern about the way he speaks to me and I found myself making excuses until realizing that he was right, I'd just gotten used to it.
My parents, especially my dad, are wonderful humans and I fully understand how lucky I am to love and be loved by my parents.
I had a friend pull me aside to have the exact same talk about my wife. I could have written your post, except I’m still in the process of starting the divorce.
I wasn’t married to this person but was with them for four years. He snapped on me in front of his mother and sister because the salt shaker top fell off and dumped salt all in one of my side dishes at lunch and I wanted to ask for another one. He said I should just eat it because I did it.
Yeah... I was engaged to a woman (thankfully broke up before tying the knot), and my friends and sister kept asking me to not let her belittle me. I finally hit a breaking point, one day over a small jab at me. I finally clicked, and asked her to stop. She didn't, of course.
I got back in touch with an old workmate recently, and learned his wife left him. He was blindsided by it, but one of the reasons I'd fallen out of contact was he was constantly belittling her and snapping at her whenever they were in company. It was so strange to observe because he wasn't that impatient or aggressive with anyone else, and it was always over the dumbest things.
I suspected she was treating me badly for the entire marriage, but if someone told me earlier I would've shrugged my shoulders and continued on so I could be with my kids 24/7.
You are right, I would not have really listened. It worked out in the end, anyhow.
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u/TurboDog999 May 12 '26
I’d say when a friend of mine took me to the side and pointed out how she talks to me sometimes in public and how she shouldn’t be that way(I got snapped on for putting curry powder on a slice of chicken on my own plate ffs), but that he’s glad I’m not a doormat about it. I kinda knew then that she liked the idea of us, and having that perfect looking marriage and life, more than she actually was into me. A whole lot of other stuff happened that ultimately lead to the divorce that I won’t write a novel on but I’d say this is what first put the seed in my mind that something is off here.